Sport Spindles Available - H2Sport Inc.

[seesquared]

Quote, originally posted by 7thGear »

my 0.02 dont buy this product if you have no clue about your suspension if someone cant figure out what product they have, what they want, and all that other good stuff, maybe this isnt for them... this is definetly not a "first" mod that i would do.

DEFINITELY! If you don't know what's going on with your suspension, this is overboard. On the brighter side, the information that you'd need to understand what is going on can be found right here in this forum.

Check out the Macpherson Strut (suspension geometry) thread from the FAQ. It might take a while to read it, but it's worth the time IMO.

[phatvw]

Quote, originally posted by RichB »

So would you say your are at optimal lowering or below that? If I understand what H2Sport says correctly, optimal lowering for a stock (non sport suspenion) Golf or Jetta would be around 2" and for a sport suspension equipped car (GTI or Golf/Jetta) would be around 1.5" and then for something like your GLI or a 20AE GTI, 1" would be around optimal. What do you think? All this talk of inches of lowering with no reference to which VW suspenion is getting me confused. Also concerned that someone may buy the Sport sindles for thier 20AEGTI or GLI, lower the thing 2" and then think he/she has optimal suspension geometry (when I do not think that would be the case).

Well even for non 20AE/GLI cars there is about a 1" variance in ride height depending on options. And I'm almost certain that H2Sport has not tested on every single engine/tranny/chassis combo. Just like every other tuner, they probably had a small sampling of Jettas and GTIs.

I think we can safely assume that "OEM" height for the enthusiast is going to mean the average height of a GTI or Jetta with factory sport suspension. I believe that is the primary market for all these upgrades...

Is that suitably vague enough for you?

Maybe we should start a poll and see what people's ride height is on oem suspension?


Modified by phatvw at 3:43 PM 2-1-2006

[briang]

Quote, originally posted by RichB »

All this talk of inches of lowering with no reference to which VW suspenion is getting me confused. Also concerned that someone may buy the Sport sindles for thier 20AEGTI or GLI, lower the thing 2" and then think he/she has optimal suspension geometry (when I do not think that would be the case).

Good point.

My point of reference is always a stock 2004 Jetta GL 2.0L Automatic (wife's car).

My GLi with H&R OE Sport and Bilstein Sports is exactly 1" lower at all 4 corners (see signature file).

The H2Sport spindle on my GLi-1.8T with aformentioned suspension yeilds control arms that are still pointing down at the lateral end (outside). Going another 1" would place the control arms in the undesireable pointing up orientation.

Hope this helps.

[RichB]

Quote, originally posted by phatvw »

I think we can safely assume that "OEM" height for the enthusiast is going to mean the average height of a GTI or Jetta with factory sport suspension. I believe that is the primary market for all these upgrades... Is that suitably vague enough for you? Maybe we should start a poll and see what people's ride height is on oem suspension?

A poll may not be a bad idea. Better yet, searching around yeilded one of Pyces excellent charts that I had forgotten about from the huge MK4 suspension thread... though in my quick search I could not find the what the reference point was for "stock' in the graph (it looks like sport suspension height to me). In the thread, Tom from H2sport seemed to indicate that the 50mm (2") point in this graph was the optium point for lowering with thier spindles

[RichB]

Quote, originally posted by briang »

The H2Sport spindle on my GLi-1.8T with aformentioned suspension yeilds control arms that are still pointing down at the lateral end (outside). Going another 1" would place the control arms in the undesireable pointing up orientation. Hope this helps.

Yes it does. Thanks!

[alomI wolleY iTG]

Will be swinging by Tom's late spring/early summer to have the spindles and Koni FSD installed on my 20th; yes, I'm going to take a vacation to Canada so I can drop off the car to have Tom and his crew do their magic.

I gave some thought to their camber plates, but am worried about the effect on tire tread wear with the additional camber. Nor am I not sure how their CA's (or any CA with spherical bearings) will fare in the long-run with the lovely salt, muck, and rain of the Northeast. I saw the thread made by 805 about the spherical bearings installed for the rear trailing arm and remember reading that the bearings will need to be replaced in a year or two of street usage. I presume these bearings are no different from the ones that H2Sport use for their CA.

[performula]

So the lowest spring with these spindles should only be 1"-1.5"?

[briang]

Quote, originally posted by performula »

So the lowest spring with these spindles should only be 1"-1.5"?

No, that's not quite right...You can always go as low as you want (just like you can lower as much as you want with stockspindles) and still have way better geometry than stock at the same amount of lowering.

However, if you seek to keep the control arms in the best position for optimal handling, don't go super low. So, I'm trying to say that up to about 1.75" lower, you get the advantage of control arms pointing down at the outside (they don't even do this when at stock ride height with stock spindles).

It is my opinion, based upon my observations, that lowering past 1.75" yeilds control arm angles roughly equivalant to an un-lowerd stock spindled car [a stock 2004 Jetta 2.0L automatic is my reference car](thus lowering past 1.75" when using the H2Sport Spindle, the roll center starts to get funky again). But this situation is still INFINATELY better on H2Sport Spindles than the stock spindles at the same height

[7thGear]

well not infenitly

just better by how much closer the CG is now to the RC

now if those B&G coilovers can hold up to track abuse, combined with these spindles... hmmmmm


Modified by 7thGear at 8:28 AM 2-3-2006

[performula]

Quote, originally posted by briang »

No, that's not quite right...You can always go as low as you want (just like you can lower as much as you want with stockspindles) and still have way better geometry than stock at the same amount of lowering. However, if you seek to keep the control arms in the best position for optimal handling, don't go super low. So, I'm trying to say that up to about 1.75" lower, you get the advantage of control arms pointing down at the outside (they don't even do this when at stock ride height with stock spindles). It is my opinion, based upon my observations, that lowering past 1.75" yeilds control arm angles roughly equivalant to an un-lowerd stock spindled car [a stock 2004 Jetta 2.0L automatic is my reference car](thus lowering past 1.75" when using the H2Sport Spindle, the roll center starts to get funky again). But this situation is still INFINATELY better on H2Sport Spindles than the stock spindles at the same height

Just what I was looking for.

[briang]

Quote, originally posted by 7thGear »

well not infenitly (sic) just better by how much closer the CG is now to the RC

I'll stick with, when your MK IV is lowered, the difference between the two (stock & H2Sport) the H2Sport is infinately better

[Tom@H2Sport.com]

Quote, originally posted by alomI wolleY iTG »

I gave some thought to their camber plates, but am worried about the effect on tire tread wear with the additional camber. Nor am I not sure how their CA's (or any CA with spherical bearings) will fare in the long-run with the lovely salt, muck, and rain of the Northeast..... I presume these bearings are no different from the ones that H2Sport use for their CA.

To help maximize the life of the bearings, we use high quality spherical bearings qualified to a military specification in both the camber blocks and control arms. Aerospace quality bearings are available but are extremely expensive and in our opinion the small gain in strength is not justified. However, if a customer requested, we could supply parts with these bearings.

As for tire wear, I always find this one difficult to answer because it's subjective.

Nevertheless, there is enough qualitative evidence to show with increased negative camber, tire wear will occur on the inner edge since it's the edge most in contact with the road. I have no quantitative data to show that an x% increase in camber = y% increase in tire wear.

Keep in mind that tire wear is effected also, and more so, by toe angle. Excessive toe angle, either in or out, means the tire is dragging (or scrubbing) across the road hence increasing wear (important then to keep toe angle close to zero.)

I can offer anecdotal evidence that we have not experienced excessive tire wear even with 3.5 degrees negative. But what's acceptable to me (or us as H2Sport - a company that manufactures and sells camber kits) may not be acceptable to customers. But I will say that more camber gives improved handling performance and we haven't had customers that are running 1.5-2 degrees comment that tire wear was unacceptable. They have however, commented that the handling was much improved.

Tom

[WolfGTI]

How are those MK3 spindles coming along?

[7thGear]

whats an MK3

[briang]

Quote, originally posted by 7thGear »

whats an MK3

Ha! I feel the same way since I bought my MK IV.

[7thGear]

i may soon forget about vw's all together and move into the world of first gen RX7's!

but they got macstruts up front as well

maybe i'll even interchange some parts

i wonder if these H2S units will fit an rx7.... hmmmmm


Modified by 7thGear at 4:32 PM 2-17-2006

[GTTechnics]

Quote, originally posted by WolfGTI »

How are those MK3 spindles coming along?

[ianacole]

I'm halfway through my install of the sport spindles and control arms, along with new Koni's. I'm lowered 1.8" on Eibach sport lines. I stopped in the middle to demontrate this:

Passenger side:

Driver's side:

Can you tell which side I've finished While still not ideal for the geometry, this already looks worlds better.

I will have some qualitative results within a month, following our next auto-x event.

Ian

[briang]

Wow, that is quite an improvement, ianacole!

[cosmosis]

Quote, originally posted by WolfGTI »

How are those MK3 spindles coming along?

.

-T-

[eggroller]

You inspired me to post up my pictures.

Before:

Eibach Pro System (lowers ~1.3")

Neuspeed 25mm rear swaybar (full stiff)

Factory 23mm front swaybar

After:

Bilstein PSS9 (set at same ride height as Eibach Pro System)

Neuspeed 25mm rear swaybar (full soft)

H2Sport Spindles

Audi TT Lower control arm (not required for H2Sport Spindles)

Audi TT 19mm front swaybar (not required for H2Sport Spindles)

Ground Control Camber plates

Before:

After:

Link of pictures of all modifications

EDIT: Forgot the camber plates. How could I forget them?


Modified by eggroller at 10:34 AM 3-8-2006

[ianacole]

Awesome eggroller!! How do you like the camber plates? I was really impressed with the set that I got from Ground Control.

[eggroller]

Quote, originally posted by ianacole »

Awesome eggroller!! How do you like the camber plates? I was really impressed with the set that I got from Ground Control.

Ditto! Love them! The whole setup is insane. So much front end grip! I just need to experiment with no front swaybar for kicks.

[alomI wolleY iTG]

H2Sport owner here.

Did anyone noticed that there are no provisions for the dustshield for the 20th GTi?

[groftja]

Quote, originally posted by alomI wolleY iTG »

H2Sport owner here. Did anyone noticed that there are no provisions for the dustshield for the 20th GTi?

Yep. Doesn't bother me though. While I'm on this topic, these spindles are awesome, particularly when the car is driven hard which is how it should be from a geometric improvement. I do have skidpad data improvement measurements but have posted them yet, but they are significant and I'm pretty sure my fiance's G35 Coupe would be trounced by my car in handling now.

[PrupleGTI]

MKIII ????

[alomI wolleY iTG]

Anyone know what sound this could be?

When I turn the steering wheel from lock to lock while moving, I hear a clunk (knock).

Endlinks?


Modified by alomI wolleY iTG at 7:44 AM 6-9-2006

[SportyB5]

MK III spindles please?

[Luke9583]

I would deffinately buy MK3 spindles.

[greyhare]

Yes, Mk3 please.
My control arms are near flat, lowering the ends should make the front work much better.

[ikuto]

Would u consider doing a group buy special ? I've always hated how the control arm bushings stretch down because i'm lowered. I'm very interested in this part, i thought MK4 available upgrades are at it's peak already but it seems like companies like yours still put effort in R&D for those of us not ready to give up our MK4s. Looks like an awesome addition to all those lowered MK4s out there .

[VR6_00Jetta]

I would buy a MkIV set.

[DoombaVW]

once i get some money, im reppin some, when i get money
damm, did i say it twice, oh man
it is that bad

[Ahme]

just a side question, do u find the mkV have the same problem with the mkIV? i spindle wise. (i mean do the mkV need spindle like these?)

[ginster vr6]

Why are new sway bar endlinks included? Does it change the position of the sway bar mounting? or is it still on the control arms? Can I use an after-market sway bar?