Brake Service, Overhaul, Brake Pad and Disc (rotor) Replacement

[invisiblewave]

Thanks! The dealer did the front pads not long ago, but I'll make a note for when they need doing again, since they charged me $450!

[Tmesis]

04 V8 with 60,000 miles indicater for new brakes comes on, meaning that 20% wear is left, not bad. I always get rotors turned with new pads. I hope they don't need replacing.

[Zaphh]

Wow. Front brakes or rear brakes ?

FWIW, Phaeton rotors are designed to outlive the pads by a small amount only (supposedly 1.5 times the lifetime of the pads, but on my car where the previous owner changed the pads only (which was a sensible thing for him to do since he planned to sell the car), I have 8mm of pads on my front gear and only 0.4mm left on the disc, meaning that I will need to change the disc well before the pads are worn out, and I need to periodically check this out because there is no light to tell that the discs are too thin (I evaluated I have 20000km life left on them).

Anyway, rotors have been designed to be changed along with the pads, or, to put it differently, the pads have been designed to be changed with the discs (and this is why the pads are beefy and why you could say "not bad" : on any other car, you would have had to change the pads several times before you got to 60 000 miles).

Once the calipers are removed, virtually no work is required to replace the disc, so you are looking at parts price only (unless your garage wants to make undue money on you).

So consider the indicator for new brakes to be an indicator for new discs (err... rotors). When you replace your rotors, don't forget to also replace the pads

P.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by Tmesis »

I always get rotors turned with new pads. I hope they don't need replacing.

It's false economy to attempt to turn rotors on recent manufacture (post 2000) vehicles. The rotors are made much thinner and lighter today than they were in the past, partly to reduce unsprung weight, and partly because the tolerances for anti-lock brake systems are much tighter than the tolerance for older brake systems.

It is in your best interest to replace the pads and the rotors at the same time. It might hurt a bit up front, but over the long haul, you will spend less money (not to mention the considerable safety benefit).

Michael

[Pink Panther]

I need some advice here, Im looking to doing the brakes myself. The only pictures and instructions available are from an Audi A8. There are a few things that are left unclear;
Do Phaeton caliper pistons need rotating while being pushed in?
The rear phaeton caliper has one piston, the front has dual pistons, how does one compress the front dual pistons? One at a time? needs rotating?

I already know the wear sensor is built into the front pads.
Is the wear sensor built into the rear pads? or clipped/bolted on caliper?
If clipped/bolted on caliper, does it need replaced?

Most brakes i find have only wear sensors built into front pads.

The VW Phaeton originally comes with two brand of pads, Jurid for the fronts and Textar for the rear. Persons such as i have difficult decisions purchasing pads from quality manufacturer's at a savings over oem in the sense that what if i choose "grippier" pad's for rear than front or vice versa? This could be detrimental in rain or snow.

Brake pads as a set by a singular manufacturer are difficult to find, Why did VW use two different brands for front versus rear?
I'm considering Porterfield R4-S pads or pads made in Canada by ABSFriction. I'd absolutely choose Hawk pads if the fronts didn't cost nearly $300.

Any extra tips on removal/install would be much appreciated.

[Solipsism12]

The rear calipers do need to be rotated as they are being pushed in - do yourself a BIG favor and buy the tool - somewhere in there there's a link for one that only costs about $25 and has attachments for a number of different cars and both turns and compresses the piston. I did mine with the dime-store cube and thought my hand was going to fall off for the next two days.

The rear pads also have sensors, and they are fastened to the backing plates for the pads - not integral to the pad material itself. New sensors, as well as new micro-encapsulated caliper bolts came with the set of ATE pads that I selected for my installation - not sure if that will be the case with all brands. If they come with the pads, I'd replace them - otherwise, unless they were damaged, I'm not sure why it would be necessary, but you'd need to transfer them to the new pads, and that might not be do-able with the way they are attached to the backing plate.

What I found when I did my car was that my front pads were ready for replacement about 3 months or so before my rear pads and, even though the rear pads' sensors indicated that it was time, there still seemed to be plenty of meat left on the pads when the dash light finally came on again. My use is mostly highway and to the best of my ability not in the middle of stop and go rush-hour traffic, so brakes aren't put to severe workout when I can help it.

Hope this info helps. Best of luck,

Rick

[BltVWF]

This is the tool:

http://www.northerntool.com/we...96088

It is not the best, SnapOn or Mac are far better, but it will do the job.
While there, I would bleed the brakes as well.

For the front, this is the tool:
http://www.mactools.com/produc....aspx

However, here's an easy way for the dual calipers. I push one of them with big pliers (or, use a C-clamp) and slid that piston on the disk. While the first caliper is on the rotor, press the second piston in and slid the caliper on the rotor.

Good luck,
Eugene

[Stinky999]

The brakes are pretty straight forward, especially if you know in advance that the pistons in the rear calipers need to be rotated (I learned this the hard way, then went to Harbor Freight and purchased the caliper tool for $16).

As another poster said, the fronts needed replacement long before the rears. In my case it was over a year, 12K miles. The sensors trigger at about 20-25% left. Naturally, the 20-25% lasts longer on the rear than the front.

You will save $800-1000 doing this yourself.

[cai]

I have to change the rear brakes on my wife's 2007 Jetta. Like the Phaeton, I need to use a special tool to loosen the "calipers"?. I have several questions:

1- Can I use the same tool for both cars?
2- Does anyone know what is the name of this tool?
3- Does anyone know where I can buy it? Sanp-on-tools is a non-starter since I can never find the truck, nor do I want to pay their price.
4- Does anyone have a picture of this tool?

Thank you.

cai

[brosen]

Hi, I am trying to access the following thread "Brake Servicing (general discussion, wear limits, disassembly, component life)", and it seems to be broken, please somebody can help me with the Wear Limits for the Front and Rear Rotors, currently I have 31mm Front and 21mm Rear, and I do not remember the Thickness when
they are Brand New and the lower limit, thanks

[invisiblewave]

Hi, I am trying to access the following thread "Brake Servicing (general discussion, wear limits, disassembly, component life)", and it seems to be broken, please somebody can help me with the Wear Limits for the Front and Rear Rotors, currently I have 31mm Front and 21mm Rear, and I do not remember the Thickness when
they are Brand New and the lower limit, thanks

Front 31mm min (34)
Rear 20mm min (22)

The braketed figures are the new thicknesses. Looks as if you're about ready for a change at the front. How do your pads look? I measured the rears on mine and determined that the rear rotors last exactly two pad cycles, they were at 21mm when the pads needed to be changed.

[dlouie]

Hi, I am trying to access the following thread "Brake Servicing (general discussion, wear limits, disassembly, component life)", and it seems to be broken, please somebody can help me with the Wear Limits for the Front and Rear Rotors, currently I have 31mm Front and 21mm Rear, and I do not remember the Thickness when
they are Brand New and the lower limit, thanks

FYI, Wear limits are usually cast on the rotors themselves. Look for the text around the hats.

Damon

[brosen]

Front 31mm min (34)
Rear 20mm min (22)

The braketed figures are the new thicknesses. Looks as if you're about ready for a change at the front. How do your pads look? I measured the rears on mine and determined that the rear rotors last exactly two pad cycles, they were at 21mm when the pads needed to be changed.

Pads look very good, I think I have at least another 10,000 miles, I drive on average 40 miles a day and
95% of it is Highway, and I barely use the brakes, so I would say maybe even more than 10,000 miles.

Front and Rear were changed at 50,000 miles, now I have 80,000.

[cai]

Cai -

I've changed both the rear and front pads and rotors. The front sensors were embedded in the pads. Basically two wires sticking out of the pads. On the rear pads the sensor is assembled with the pad. Here's a picture of the rear.

[invisiblewave]

Pads look very good, I think I have at least another 10,000 miles, I drive on average 40 miles a day and
95% of it is Highway, and I barely use the brakes, so I would say maybe even more than 10,000 miles.

Front and Rear were changed at 50,000 miles, now I have 80,000.

Were the rotors changed at 50k as well?? The rear pads are pretty straightforward to do yourself, the locking nut arrangement on the caliper pins makes them relatively easy to get off, although you do need a good 13mm ring wrench plus a slim wrench for the locking nut (17mm I think, from memory). You can get a normal width wrench onto the locking nut, but it doesn't go all the way on, mine went far enough for me to get it undone. I didn't do the rotors on mine, but you have to take the caliper all the way off to do the pads anyway. The plastic clips on the sensor cable housing are a bit fiddly, but no great problem.

[invisiblewave]

If you buy rear ones at AutoHaus Arizona, the Textar ones do not come with the sensors; I just received a pair and called them about it. I wonder if the sensors can be bought separately and if the old sensors can be reused once they activate.

cai

I seem to recall someone posting that the front sensors are embedded into the pads but I think the rears are separate.

Why did you buy Textar rather than VW?

[cai]

Besides price, about half the cost, any reason why not to buy Textar pads?

I was buying other brake pads for a Jetta and decided to buy these at the same time and have them for when I needed them. I am going to inquire from VW about buying only the sensors or just put these and watch them as they wear out. I have not checked the installed pads for wear and will do so this weekend. If the pads are low and the sensors intact, I will change the pads and the rotors.

Note: When using the compression tool I ran into a problem where the piston would not rotate. I was turning the screw so hard that I bent the tool back plate and the leverage pin. If that happens to you, just start the rotation using channel pliers and then use the tool. If the tool still will not rotate the piston, put some light pressure on the piston with the tool and with the pliers turn the piston. You will notice that the screw will also turn helping you keep pressure on the piston while turning it. I had to do this on both of the Jetta wheels. It goes in very fast.

cai

[brosen]

Were the rotors changed at 50k as well?? The rear pads are pretty straightforward to do yourself, the locking nut arrangement on the caliper pins makes them relatively easy to get off, although you do need a good 13mm ring wrench plus a slim wrench for the locking nut (17mm I think, from memory). You can get a normal width wrench onto the locking nut, but it doesn't go all the way on, mine went far enough for me to get it undone. I didn't do the rotors on mine, but you have to take the caliper all the way off to do the pads anyway. The plastic clips on the sensor cable housing are a bit fiddly, but no great problem.

Yes, Rotors and Pads, Front and Rear were replaced at 50K

[invisiblewave]

Besides price, about half the cost, any reason why not to buy Textar pads?


cai

Well, apart from anything else, if you'd bought VW you'd have been sure to get the sensors as well! How much were the Textar pads? My VW pads were $90 + tax. The only reasons I can think of for buying aftermarket pads would be a) cost and b) reduction in dust. The manufacturer will no doubt have spent a significant amount of time coming up with the optimum formulation for the pads, I suppose there may be pads around that might perform marginally better, but how do you know before you try them anyway? The Textar pads I've used in the past (since the originals are no longer available) produce more dust than the VW pads on the Phaeton, and the aftermarket pads I priced up were close to the cost of the VW pads once I factored in the shipping cost.

[invisiblewave]

Yes, Rotors and Pads, Front and Rear were replaced at 50K

It sounds as if your rotor to pad wear ratio is slightly greater than mine, but that makes sense since you do lot more highway driving than I do. Having said that, my pads had what I would consider as quite a bit left on them, although the dealer insisted that they were 95% worn. The warning light hadn't come on. The reason I changed them when I did was because I didn't want to be doing it in the middle of the summer.....

[Reflect]

Same here. I did front and rear pads and rotors at 50,xxx miles. The sensor light came on about 1000 miles before at 49,xxx

[brosen]

How much is everybody paying for a full brake service, meaning Front and Rear, Rotors and Pads with the Dealer ?, here in MN my VW dealer charges $1,450 + Taxes.

Is it safe to go to an specialized Brake Service shop ?, they gave me a quick quote the other day for half of the dealer price and they mentioned that they will use OEM parts, any previous experience ?, I do not know if the Phaeton brakes are too complicated or they are just standard brakes, thanks

[ruddyone]

The brakes, both front and rear pads and rotors were very easy. I think the parts were about $400 for the front and $300 for the rear if that helps at all.

Best Regards,

Nate

[invisiblewave]

How much is everybody paying for a full brake service, meaning Front and Rear, Rotors and Pads with the Dealer ?, here in MN my VW dealer charges $1,450 + Taxes.

Is it safe to go to an specialized Brake Service shop ?, they gave me a quick quote the other day for half of the dealer price and they mentioned that they will use OEM parts, any previous experience ?, I do not know if the Phaeton brakes are too complicated or they are just standard brakes, thanks

The dealer charged me about $450 just to do the front f*ing pads. I only agreed because it was already in for something else and he told me the parts were about $200. Having done the rear pads myself, and reading the Ruddy One's comments about the front, I can't see any reason why any brake shop can't do them. The only part that would worry me would be the lifting, make sure your air lines are out of the way and that they lift it at the correct lifting points. The Phaeton brakes were actually easier to do then the Impala I had. How much did they quote?

[invisiblewave]

The brakes, both front and rear pads and rotors were very easy. I think the parts were about $400 for the front and $300 for the rear if that helps at all.

Best Regards,

Nate

Nate, did you have any trouble getting the rotors off?

[ruddyone]

First, the rotors were $195 and the pads were about $88. (plus shipping)

Second, the rotors were no problem. They came off in a few seconds. There is only one set screw and they weren't corroded at all. The calipers are floating so they are slightly different than the rears but not any more difficult. The pads have clips that hold them into the caliper instead of the carriage.

I plan to take the tires off and take pictures but the basic process for the front is:

Jack mode
Jack up car
Take off the tire
Remove the two rubber caps covering the rear of the caliper bolts
Remove the caliper bolts
Remove the caliper
Remove the pads from caliper
Unhook the sensor
Remove the lower bolt that hold the carriage
Loosen the upper carriage bolt
Remove the Set screw for the rotor
Swing carriage up to remove the rotor
Replace the rotor
Replace set screw
Reinstall the carriage
Compress caliper pistons (two per caliper) (I use that special tool but the fronts don't need to be rotated like the rears)
Replace pads
Hook up sensor wire
Reinstall calipers
Reinstall tire

Best Regards,

Nate

[DynomiteTT]

btw check out, http://www.adamsrotors.com/

He does custom slotted/drilled zinc coated rotors for any car. He quoted me $450 for a set of slotted rotors i believe that was front and back.

[dstalling]

Purchased drilled and slotted rotors and rear brake sensors from iROTORS INC for ~$648. Other that crimping the air line on the driver's side the biggest challenge was loosening the four main bolts loose on the front; those bolts are tight. Repair of the orange line was a snap with a 4mm coupling on http://www.master.com (Push-to-Connect Tube Fittings).
daves

[cai]

{Invisibleware said: The Textar pads I've used in the past (since the originals are no longer available) produce more dust than the VW pads on the Phaeton,.... )

What original ones are no longer available?

The cost of the pads was $47.21, with free shipping. I will return them since I want to know how the red ones installed by Ruddyone are doing. I will return the pads since a check of the wheels indicates a lot of wear left; I think. I did not take the wheel off and it is difficult to see.

cai

[04phaeton]

I'm about to go on my 3rd set of brakes within 2 years (this last set lasted 46,000 kms).

I'm going to keep the rotors I put in last year and change the pads only and just purchased the EBC Red Stuff pads.

These pads are supposed to be excellent in controlling dust (the VW ones are horrible).

I'm hoping to have them by mid-week and installed by the weekend as my check brake pads light just came on this weekend.

[cai]

Upon looking at the picture of the red brake pads posted by ruddyone, I notice that top of the wear sensor sits at about half the depth of the pad material.

1- Does the sensor activate as soon as it has contact with the rotor or does the indicator have to wear much lower before a signal is given?

2- How good are these red pads in stopping power? That is, compared with the OEM VW pads.

3- Where can one buy the red pads?

Thank you.

cai

[hylko]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if the parts that i need (for my 2005 3.0 tdi) are the same
as in the exploded view graphic from Michael.

I want to replace discs and brake pads.

If any one can help me and if uk based please let me know good place to order.

Thanks

[Sarmale89]

btw check out, http://www.adamsrotors.com/

He does custom slotted/drilled zinc coated rotors for any car. He quoted me $450 for a set of slotted rotors i believe that was front and back.

DynomiteTT,

Did you end up getting rotors from Adam's Rotors? I've read some great feedback about his products and was curious if you could offer and real world experience. My concern is that machined rotors will be noisier than the stock, unmachined rotors. Is this true?

I need front pads and rotors (and maybe rears too) and am looking at Adam's Rotors vs. OEM and StopTech Posi-Quiets vs Red Stuff vs OEM pads. Any experience with any of those would be helpfull too.

Bobby

[Sarmale89]

DynomiteTT,

Did you end up getting rotors from Adam's Rotors? I've read some great feedback about his products and was curious if you could offer and real world experience. My concern is that machined rotors will be noisier than the stock, unmachined rotors. Is this true?

I need front pads and rotors (and maybe rears too) and am looking at Adam's Rotors vs. OEM and StopTech Posi-Quiets vs Red Stuff vs OEM pads. Any experience with any of those would be helpfull too.

Bobby

I ordered a full set of slotted rotors and posi-quiet pads from Adam last night. The total was $699 including shipping. I priced out the OEM parts at 1stvwparts.com and they came to about $675, so I figured for $25 bucks more I'm getting slotted rotors and pads that should be (based on reviews) better than OEM. They should get here in 2-3 weeks. I'll let you know how it goes.

Bobby

[remembertofocus]

let us know guys!
...we love emails, so just shoot us any questions.