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    Thread: Cleaning the Snow Screens in the Phaeton Air Intake [TOC, Photos done]

    1. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      07-08-2008 02:37 AM #36
      There is a bypass system that will allow air into the plenum, upstream of the filter, when the snow screen is plugged. The only difference I can think of is that this air is warm (it comes from under the hood), and the "normal" air routing - the air that passes through the snow screen - is at ambient temperature because it is collected through the front grille of the car. Thus, you might get a bit of a drop in peak horsepower output (but only when you demand peak), but otherwise, I don't think there would be much of a change in performance. The mass airflow sensor is located downstream of the air filter, and it would reduce the quantity of fuel injected to compensate for the warmer (less dense) air that would come through the bypass valve.

      Michael


    2. 07-10-2008 02:26 PM #37
      FYI....I performed this when I first got the car after reading this thread (mine were dirty) one thing to remember is make sure the filter is completely dry before re-inserting.

      Not sure if that was already mentioned but mine were still damp and after putting them in the car I believe the car was choking a bit not driving properly (probably air wasn't flowing as smoothly) and the engine light came on. After getting her on the highway after about 5 mins things cleared up (probably because the air dryed them up).


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      07-10-2008 04:46 PM #38
      Hi everybody,

      How do you open the filter holders ?

      Here is a photo of the filters on my V8. I could not see any way to get access to the filters.

      Thanks for your help,

      Z.


    4. Member VWGlf00GL's Avatar
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      07-10-2008 08:27 PM #39
      Hi Z,

      It seems there are 4 screws (one on each corner) of the filter housings. You can remove those screws. If you go back to page 1 in this thread you can see a few screws. Your pictures show those screws as well.

      Hope that helps!!

      - Adrian

      Adrian
      ---

    5. 07-11-2008 04:04 PM #40
      That's right there are 4 screws some of them are angled a little oddly making it a little tricky to get at, unsnapping the heat shield (the silver thing) should help a little, I think I had to remove/disco my air intake thing as well to allow more working room. If you look in your second picture where the intake meets the air filter box I actually disconnected that when working.


      Modified by derrickonline at 12:06 PM 7-11-2008

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      07-11-2008 06:48 PM #41
      Hi Derrick and Adrian, and thanks for your update.

      Tonight, I unscrewed the 4 screws, but could not find a way to dismount the air box. The rim of the front fender of the car (the one with the rubber seal on it) prevents me from removing the top of the box and getting access to the filters.

      Any ideas ?

      Should I dismount something else to be able to open the box ?

      Thanks again,

      Z.


      Modified by Zaphh at 12:11 AM 7-12-2008


    7. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      07-12-2008 01:26 AM #42
      Zaph:

      The upper portion of the airbox is very difficult to remove (due to extremely tight tolerances all around it) on the W12. It is possible that the same might be true on your car.

      FYI, you have to remove the big round tube that carries the filtered air into the engine before you attempt to remove the upper portion of the airbox cover. You won't get anywhere as long as that tube is attached. In practice, you have to disconnect that big tube at both ends (airbox and where it connects to the engine, typically at the MAF, or Mass Airflow Sensor) and then remove it and set it aside.

      Michael


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      07-12-2008 11:50 AM #43
      Thanks for the info.

      I disconnected the tubes, opened the airboxes and lo and behold... no snow filters...

      Since there can be a lot of snow in Strasbourg, I will ask the dealer who sold me the car to find some.

      Cheers,

      P.


    9. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      07-12-2008 10:38 PM #44
      The primary purpose of snow filters is to prevent very light, loose powder snow from being drawn into the filter. From what I know of the weather in the Rhine valley, there's not much chance of that happening. The winter temperatures are not low enough to create much powder snow.

      If you spend a lot of time at high altitudes driving in snowstorms in (for example) Haute-Savoie or the Central Massif, it might be worth getting them. Otherwise, I would not bother - the disadvantages (they collect sand and dirt) outweigh the probable need for them.

      Michael


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      08-23-2008 02:16 PM #45
      Hi Michael,

      While browsing the latest subjects that came on, I just found a quote by you saying:

      If you live in an area that absolutely, positively does not get any snow, ever, you can remove the snow screen. But, if you remove it, please keep it with the car and take the time to put it back in when you get rid of the car, in case the car goes to a cold climate area. If you live in (for example) Southern California and you make one trip a year to Tahoe to go skiing, leave the snow screen in there! It only takes about 10 minutes of driving in light powder snow to get enough moisture onto the paper filter element to cause it to disintegrate, then start moving down the tube to the mass airflow sensor. The cost to fix up that little snafu will be a four-figure number.

      Well, I bought the Phaeton to commute between Burgundy and Alsace, meaning that I get to drive quite a lot in the East of France, including Jura, where I understand that temperatures can get below -10°C easily. I specifically bought snow tyres for this winter.

      This makes me wonder whether I'd not rather try to find some snow filters to put in when I switch wheels to snow tyres... for if one day, I encounter this powder snow, it seems from what you say that it will be too late to do anything about it...

      Before I try to buy them from VW, would anyone from Texas/Nevada/Sahara/... mind selling (and sending) me some for a reasonable price ?

      Thanks,

      P.


    11. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      08-23-2008 09:59 PM #46
      The snow filters are very inexpensive - likely no more than €15 each, plus the small cost of one screw to retain each one. Likely it would be less expensive for you to order them from your local dealer.

      I would be surprised if a car delivered to France did not have the filters in it, although I suppose an argument could be made that you might not need them in the far south-east.

      Michael


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      08-24-2008 06:31 AM #47
      Hi Michael,

      I have been less than impressed by the VW dealer I bought my Phaeton from. He is located in Normandy, which sees snow each and every winter. I very much suspect that upon changing the air filters, the mechanics must have tossed the snow filters away, seeing how much they were blocked.

      Btw, concerning VW dealers, I am soon to go to Strasbourg where I work, and where my car will be taken care of. Anyone know a serious VW dealer in the area ? In fact, I was wondering whether I would not bring my car to Geiger in Kehl (Germany), just on the other side of the bridge over the Rhine (20mn away from home), because I suspect they must be much more acquainted with Phaetons than French dealers.

      Anyone in this area by chance ?

      P.


    13. 08-28-2008 12:56 AM #48
      I have just performed this simple task of cleaning the screens. The filters were fairly new, however, the same could not be said about the screens. My filter indicators were at 50 - 75 % prior to the cleaning, and now, they're not budging from the white. Every Phaeton owner should perform this every 3-4 months in dusty areas/climates... You'd be surprised how much road dirt can pack up on the screens...

    14. Member Kuwaity's Avatar
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      10-24-2008 12:17 PM #49
      Today I decided to clean the air filters after a dusty summer. Surprisely the air intake service indicators are completely white. My car is equipped with dusty air filter (which has sponge) and without snow screen.
      This is the first time I clean the filter after 23,000 km and they were not very dirty.

      Now every thing works well except that the service indicators can not be moved to 100 back to 50 and vice versa. Last year I was able to change the indicator from fully white to fully red and vice versa. Now I cannot. Does this mean that both service indicators are defective or they are normally working?

      Help please...

      Ahmad

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      11-27-2008 10:00 AM #50
      Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »
      The snow filters are very inexpensive - likely no more than €15 each, plus the small cost of one screw to retain each one. Likely it would be less expensive for you to order them from your local dealer.

      I would be surprised if a car delivered to France did not have the filters in it, although I suppose an argument could be made that you might not need them in the far south-east.

      Michael

      Hi Michael,

      Just had my dealer on the phone. Apparently, he has never seen such filters, and could not find any part number for them. Could you (or anyone else) help out please with a part number I could give him ?

      Thanks,

      P.


    16. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-27-2008 02:33 PM #51
      Suggest to the dealer that he look in the VW electonic parts catalog, at the illustration that shows the air filter plenum. The snow screen will be illustrated there. VW parts catalogs are identical all over the world - even if you took the car to a VW dealer in the middle of the Sahara desert, or in Death Valley, CA, they would see the snow screen on their parts catalog display.

      In the meantime, here is a picture of a snow screen from a W12. The part number is visible (upside down) in the middle. This should help the dealer get close to the part number of a snow screen for a Phaeton with your engine type in it.

      Michael


    17. 03-22-2009 03:45 PM #52
      First, I have carefully read the thread in the TOC on this subject, but have a few questions.

      When removing the three engine compartment shrouds around the W12 engine, one must remove six screws. What specific tool is required to do this? (I must admit to not being very mechanical, and don't own a lot of tools. I damage fewer of my possessions this way.)

      Next, my 2006 has the BRP engine. Does anyone know if the component layout/procedure is different in any meaningful way from the BAP engine?

      Also, the car is 4 years old, with 27k miles. So the last major service was at 20k miles. Before tackling the snow screens, would it be worthwhile to order a pair of air cleaner elements, and swap the old ones out "since I'm in the neighborhood?" I suppose the answer is, take a look at the condition of the current ones, but it seems a good idea to have a replacement pair on hand. Thanks much.


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      03-22-2009 05:13 PM #53
      The screws securing the covers are of the Torx variety. I don't know what size off the top of my head. If you don't have these tools, you can buy a set at any auto parts store, walmart, etc.

    19. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      03-22-2009 07:08 PM #54
      Hi Ken:

      As Jeffery pointed out, you need a 'Torx' screwdriver. This is a reasonably common specification of screwdriver for European cars. 99% of the Torx fasteners on the Phaeton use only 3 Torx bit sizes. I can't recall offhand what the sizes are, but if you ask a VW technician, they would be able to tell you. I suggest you buy one conventional 'screwdriver' for each of the 3 common sizes, and then a set of bits that cover all 12 Torx sizes to cater to the last 1%. Total capital cost = about $25.

      The BRP is functionally identical to the BAP. The only significant physical differences are a different shape of intake manifold on the top (this is primarily a styling and design issue) and a different oil pan at the bottom. There are numerous small improvements, but nothing that would be visible to us to or affect work we would do as a DIY owner.

      If the last service was done only 7,000 miles ago, I cannot see any benefit at all to replacing the air filter elements. Air filters are replaced on a schedule that is strictly mileage based, in other words, the filters do not deteriorate based on calender time. I think it would just be a waste of money to replace them simply because you are in there anyway. What you could do is gently vacuum the dirty side of the filter with a domestic vacuum that has a brush attachment. Don't blow them out from the clean side with high pressure air (meaning, air with a pressure higher than you would get out of a household hair dryer) or you will damage the paper and this will render the filters inoperative. You could, I suppose, gently blow some air though them from the clean side with a household hair dryer, but honestly, I think that just vacuuming the dirty side is more than sufficient.

      Michael


    20. 03-22-2009 11:39 PM #55
      Michael,

      Thanks very much. I look forward to my "spring cleaning."


    21. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      03-23-2009 01:13 AM #56
      Hi Ken:

      Below is a picture of a 'bit set' that I purchased about 4 years ago. I believe it cost about $90, but it has been an extraordinarily useful set of tools to have - it is the equivilent of having 115 different screwdrivers.

      If a bit becomes damaged from use, it is very easy to purchase a single replacement bit, or a pack of 3 (identical) replacement bits. Another advantage of a bit set like this is that because the exact specification for each bit is engraved on the side of the bit, you can find out what sizes you most commonly use (for example, the Torx 20 is very common on the Phaeton), and then go to a store to buy a conventional Torx 20 driver without wondering whether or not you are buying the correct specification tool.

      Michael


    22. Junior Member Phat One's Avatar
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      08-05-2009 02:22 PM #57
      Here are a couple of pix of my dirty snowscreens. You can see the difference. I noticed an improvement in MPG afterwards.

      Graham

      (images resized by Michael, post content untouched)


      Modified by PanEuropean at 2:26 PM 11-16-2009


    23. 11-16-2009 05:31 PM #58
      Hi Michael,

      just found this great article. I was totally surprised by the fact, that you guys got a much better Version of the Airfilterboxes (Snowscreen, relief valve, saturation indicators) than we are allowed to have in our Phaetons... Do you or anyone else know the prt-number or where to get those? Would like to have them in my german based Phaeton, too. Because those frozen snow partikles we got also in Winter and a saturation indicator is a very good thing to have in my opinion.

      Breetings, Ron


    24. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      11-16-2009 06:29 PM #59
      Hello Ron:

      When Phaetons are built, there are some minor differences in construction depending on whether or not the vehicle is destined for a "cold country" (for example, North America) or whether it is destined for a "warm country" (for example, Southern Europe).

      It is possible that when your car was built, it was originally destined for a warm country, and therefore did not get snow screens fitted.

      You can investigate this further by reviewing the post entitled Understanding Phaeton Production Codes & Build Stickers , then downloading the PDF that is there and decoding the build sticker on your vehicle.

      Michael


    25. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-18-2010 07:58 AM #60
      Archival Note: Related post - air filter service gauges

    26. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      10-14-2010 08:33 AM #61
      Here is a PDF from the Phaeton repair manual that explains the tasks to be carried out in order to replace the engine air filters on a W12 Phaeton. The concepts are similar for other engines.


      Double-click on the thumbnail to open the PDF at full size.

      Michael
      Attached Files

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      10-14-2010 12:43 PM #62
      Brings back memories from the headlight project I completed last night. Just a word of caution when 'unsnapping the press studs in diagram NO2-003 items number 4 & 5, be careful if using any sort of pry tool.

      On one side, these unsnapped no problem using my hands only. The other side wasn’t giving in and I used a screw driver to pry it open. Unfortunately, the wrong two pieces separated and I found myself needing to repair the snap button with a center punch afterwards.

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      12-26-2010 04:51 PM #63
      Hey All,
      This is a great thread!
      My Air Filter indicators have been in the red since I bought the car a few weeks ago (I reset them, they returned to "red").
      Using the instructions and tips in this thread I was able to easily remove the snow filters and clean them, some observations:
      -I have no basis but I'm thinking that they have never been cleaned. They were black and full of sand and other debris. The car spent time near the beach and brought of bunch of beach home.
      -Take a look at the intakes while you are in there, I had a fairly large piece of styrofoam in one.
      -I have one "dusty area" air-filter and one "non dusty area" filter, I'll rectify that at my first oil change.
      -Cleaning the snow filters is a nice way of getting acquainted with the air box areas for oil filter changes, headlight bulb replacement and spark plug replacement, all of which are upcoming in my car.
      I'm sure the car will run even better and be more economical now that it can breath through it's proper "nostrils"!
      Thanks to all those who contributed to this thread (especially Michael and Paul); it made this job easy!
      Last edited by johnt26; 12-26-2010 at 06:35 PM.
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      12-31-2010 05:00 PM #64
      I just finished changing the low beam bulbs and was surprised by the amount of debris that had accumulated since they were changed a year ago. Most of the material was insect parts and the driver's side had a lot more than the other screen. There was no red dial showing but clearly there was enough to restrict air flow. Being in Kansas perhaps is the reason for the bug debris? Thanks to all who contributed to the link(s) on changing out the low beam bulbs. The information really helped!
      Happy New Year to all!!
      daves

    30. Member sjglaser's Avatar
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      01-14-2011 09:01 PM #65
      Hello All,

      Thanks to the excellent postings regarding changing out bulbs and claening out snow screens, I went ahead today and changed out the air filters/cleaned snow screens on my V8 - no problems.

      But, when it came to my W12 when I finally removed the filters, I realized that the snow screens were not there! I recently acquired this car and I have been gradually addressing all the minor (and major - ie torque converter) issues the car has...

      The favor I wish to ask is whethe someone can guide me to the part numbers for the snow screens? I tried navigating around 1stVWparts.com to no avail

      Thanking all in advance,

      Steve

    31. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      01-15-2011 11:31 AM #66
      Hi Steve:

      When VW builds cars, they apply slight construction variations to the vehicle depending on what region of the world the car is destined for. If your Phaeton was originally destined for a 'warm climate' area, it would not have been equipped with snow screens. Likewise, if it was destined for a 'cold climate' area, it would have been equipped with snow screens and also filled with coolant that offered a greater level of freeze protection than normal.

      I tried looking on page 129-60 of the VW Parts Catalog (this shows the air cleaner assembly for the W12 engine Phaetons), and could not find the snow screen there. This is a bit surprising, because that is where I would expect the thing to be - it fits inside the air cleaner.

      I bet that if you go visit a VW dealership and talk to the Parts Specialist there, they will be able to find the snow screen for you in the parts catalog, and order it. If you don't have any success with this, wait about a month (until I get back to Canada - I am in the Seychelles Islands now) and I will have a look at the snow screen on my own Phaeton and see if it has a part number embossed on it. It's probably time for me to clean them now...

      Michael

    32. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      01-15-2011 11:44 AM #67
      Steve:

      Below is an enlargement of a part of a picture of a snow screen taken from the first page of this post. It appears that there is a number 848 108 7 embossed on it. This doesn't really sound like a Phaeton part number (Phaeton part numbers usually start with 3D0), but if you print this photo and take it to your VW Dealer Parts Specialist, it will probably help them find the part for you.

      Michael

      (double-click on the thumbnail to enlarge it)
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    33. Member sjglaser's Avatar
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      01-15-2011 02:08 PM #68
      Michael

      Thanks a bunch for researching this issue... I will print out the photo with the partial numbers and go to my dealer's parts specialist...

      Steve

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      01-21-2011 04:36 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
      Steve:

      Below is an enlargement of a part of a picture of a snow screen taken from the first page of this post. It appears that there is a number 848 108 7 embossed on it.
      Michael

      (double-click on the thumbnail to enlarge it)
      I looked at the snow screens I removed from my V8 and one of them had the same number as the one from Michael's W12. The other one had a number 848 124 4. Don't know which one was right or left side. Looks like the V8 and W12 use the same screens. You could fit check, since it looks like you have one of each. If they are the same, you can have my slightly used (1yr) screens for the price of postage.

    35. Member sjglaser's Avatar
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      01-21-2011 09:07 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Fighterguy View Post
      I looked at the snow screens I removed from my V8 and one of them had the same number as the one from Michael's W12. The other one had a number 848 124 4. Don't know which one was right or left side. Looks like the V8 and W12 use the same screens. You could fit check, since it looks like you have one of each. If they are the same, you can have my slightly used (1yr) screens for the price of postage.
      Thank you! That is very kind.... please PM me with estimated postage, address, etc and I'll send you a check along with my mailing address.

      Regards

      Steve

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