20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (NOT ABA, NOT 9A, NOT G60, etc)

[Prof315]

Quote, originally posted by AutoCrosser11 »

I got a SMT-6 smart tuner if your interested. but really I would run megasquit

[elRey]

Quote, originally posted by mk4_2.ho »

2: i have an avh code 2.0 block that needs rings (previous owner dumped the full quart of marvel into a near-empty crankcase, washed the rings out)

??? curious what this means so I don't do it.

Quote, originally posted by mk4_2.ho »

--YOU DO NOT NEED TO ORDER CUSTOM PISTONS (other than bore size)! i am using pistons designed for a 1.8t and they clear just fine with the appropriate matched rods (which is factory for now, new scat rods will go in next week, then the final build takes place). of course, this is turning by hand, but i do not see the pistons going anywhere near over the top of the piston wall.

So, you're saying that a 3.2mm difference in deck height doesn't put the pistons above the deck into the head? Are you sure you have 86.4mm stroke pistons and not 92.8mm stroke pistons?

[mk4_2.ho]

rey, the previous owner of the block was a teenage girl, she told her dad the car was losing oil, before checking it out, he dumped a whole quart of marvel mystery oil into it. it had MAYBE a half-quart of the real stuff. when i got the car to fix, the rings were washed to hell, car wouldn't even start, and when it did, a different cylinder would misfire every single time.

i'm also guessing that maybe he threw in some motor flush too sometime beforehand and had his daughter drive it around.

in any case, i put a motor in with 11,000 miles, car runs fine, i kept the old block.

block was bored to 83mm so as to accept larger, new pistons. the pistons are eurospec 5v pistons, 83mm bore, 92.8mm stroke. i spoke with mike@eurospec, this is what he recommended for the project. compression ratio is 9.0:1. i was mistaken earlier if i mentioned 86.4mm. it was late, i had been up huffing fumes from various cleaners and chemicals putting the head together. they are, in fact, designed for a 1.8t, just a bored and stroked variation.

connecting rods are standard issue mk4 144mm rods. i went with scat, you could go with anyone you'd feel comfortable with.

i'm hoping with a good tune on the gt30, i should be deep into the 3s.

[J.Owen]

hmm, I have a full AVH long block that I just picked up to build. After reading all of this it makes me seriously consider taking the 20/20 approach.

[bwidow]

I have a 20/20 engine w/ C2 software but it wont start...can the 20v cam position sensor trigger the aeg coil pack, if so witch cam rotor to use (1 window aeb or the 4 window awp)?

i keep geting a 17465 code - camshaft adjustment

any body have any ideas. and would this code cause no spark?



Modified by bwidow at 2:51 PM 10-22-2009

[elRey]

what management? (base ecu... AEG ecu?)

4-window
only time 1-window is used is for AEB and even AEB can use 4-window without problems.

[bwidow]

99 aeg i think its motronic 5.2? thats been reflash w/ C2 software for a 2.0l w/20v head, t3 turbo..


Modified by bwidow at 2:58 PM 10-22-2009

[elRey]

Yes, 4-window 1.8T CPS wheel will work with AEG ECU (chipped or not).
And the ECU fires the coil pack. You threw me off when you post a cam adjustment DTC.... that's usually for 1.8Ts that have VVT.

What did you for wiring harness? swap a complete 1.8T harness or cut and splice?


Modified by elRey at 5:59 PM 10-22-2009

[bwidow]

so what would cause the no spark condition? I just went out to the garage and tried cranking it again with the scanner plugged in and dtc code 17465 came up again?


Modified by bwidow at 3:20 PM 10-22-2009

[bwidow]

Do you think they would have flashed my ecu with a 1.8t w/ vvt file?

[elRey]

What did you for wiring harness? swap a complete 1.8T harness or cut and splice?

[bwidow]

the stock 2L aeg harness with the plug for the cam sensor spliced in..

[elRey]

plug wires? TB wires extended?

Is the CPS connector spliced correctly... or are your wires crossed?


Modified by elRey at 5:08 PM 10-23-2009

[bwidow]

im using 16v wires, tb wires wernt cut just rerouted to tb.

i used to numbers on the conectors to match up wires.

the aeb conector has a white/black going to aeg plug wire#1
grey/green going to " " " #2
black going to " " " #3

hey ELREY thank you for taking time to help me out I really appreciate it.


Modified by bwidow at 2:45 PM 10-23-2009

[elRey]

My AEB diagrams show:
green/purple= pin #1
green/grey = pin #2
grey/white = pin #3

AEG:
purple/red = pin #1
purple/yellow = pin #2
brown/black = pin #3

And AEG pin#s should = AEB pin#s

[bwidow]

thats the way i have them 1 to 1, 2 to 2, etc. I even tried 1 to 3, 3 to1
the middle wire is usually the signal one right.

[mk4_2.ho]

ok, so 4window and 16v wires are a must...sweet, and good to know.

i got the motor together, turning by hand, nothing is hitting, no funky noises, we should be good to go.

i'll be doing the c2 file as well, so long as they can delete sai out of it.

i extended my harness as well, no use in using the 1.8t harness when c2 writes a program for the 2.0 20vt.

side note guys, the 16v manifold (mk2/b3/sII) will also bolt up to the 20v head. should make na conversions MUCH easier...but who wants a 20v without a snail? :-p i say this because my turbo manifold was from my old 16v jetta, wanted to see if it could fit on a whim, and it did.

[bwidow]

C2 will take out the SAI but you have to tell them too...

i think ive tried evrything in the book to get this thing started, im still not getting any spark...


Modified by bwidow at 7:13 AM 10-25-2009

[J.Owen]

Quote, originally posted by mk4_2.ho »

YOU DO NOT NEED TO ORDER CUSTOM PISTONS ... pistons designed for a 1.8t and they clear just fine with the appropriate matched rods

With that being said, it would seem its possible to just order something like the IE piston/rod combo linked below?

http://www.intengineering.com/....html


Modified by J.Owen at 8:16 PM 10-27-2009

[mk4_2.ho]

if the pistons will support the 92.8mm stroke of the 2.0, then yes, that would be a good setup (and inexpensive too!)

rods are rods in the mk4, just get the right diameter wrist pin size.

the pistons are the unicorn so to speak. i ordered mine from eurospec, it's an off-the-shelf piston so to speak for them. they were also $100 cheaper than je or wiseco as well (or so i thought).

with more and more builders using the fsi crank (only difference is the forged-ness), more 2008cc cars will be on the road, pistons should be more readily available as the days go by.

here's the pistons that wiseco offers, josh, you coulda saved me $250 by linking that site about two weeks ago:

http://www.intengineering.com/....html

Modified by mk4_2.ho at 9:17 PM 10-26-2009


Modified by mk4_2.ho at 9:29 PM 10-26-2009

[J.Owen]

Quote, originally posted by mk4_2.ho »

josh, you coulda saved me $250 by linking that site about two weeks ago:

Sorry man, I didn't even realize it existed until I started researching this project.

They also sell this, but im unsure of how this would affect the end compression ratio. I would assume it would function that same as the standard US spec 1.8T gasket.

83mm overbore gasket...

http://www.intengineering.com/....html

[bwidow]

Ok so i my wife emailed C2 today and they told her that the awp hall sensor wheel (cam wheel) will not work on the M5.92 ecu cars. The newer cars with ME 7 or drive by wire cars can use that wheel, so now im s.o.l. I need to come up with a way to put the aeg hall wheel on the 20v cam pulley and bolt up aeg cam sensor to the head.....

any body have any ideas on that?

[elRey]

AEG (mk4 2.0L 8v) hall sensor trigger wheel configuration = newer 2.0l and 1.8T wheels. The only wheel that has a different window configuration is the early AEB 1.8Ts. And you can use the later wheel on an AEB with any problems. But you cannot use the early AEB wheel on newer cars.

[bwidow]

hey ELREY,
are you saying that there are two different aeb wheels? If so will the later wheel (aeb) work with the aeg M 5.92 management?

I have a 99 audi big port head that came with the one window wheel that didnt work either... and is the window pattern of the newer wheel different than the awp wheel?

sorry for bombarding you with all these questions, im just trying to get this damb car running before winter really sets in.

[elRey]

AEG (mk4 2.0L) = 4 window (newer) 1.8T trigger wheel (NOT AEB)

AEB only has 1 wheel and that's a 1 window trigger wheel.

BUT, what I am saying is that the AEB will can run the 4-window, later wheel.

In short, get the later 4-window wheel and it will work with everything (mentioned in this conversation).


Modified by elRey at 8:26 PM 11-6-2009

[bwidow]

I have the AWP 4 window wheel and it does not work. The newer wheel only works on newer cars with drive by wire running ME7 ecu's 99' AEG cars running M5.92 ecu's cannot or at least mine is not sending a signal to the ecu to trigger the coil pack....ive checked the coil, ecu, cam senor what else is there, what am i missing?

[elRey]

I'll say it again. The stock trigger wheel on an AEG IS a 4-window wheel with the SAME window configuration as the newer 1.8Ts AND newer 2.0Ls.

Prove me wrong. Where is you old cam gear from your 2.0L head?

What I'm implying is that the trigger wheel is not your problem.


Modified by elRey at 3:57 PM 11-8-2009

[suzuki200k]

My AEG is drive by cable. will this hurt me severely in the swap?

[bwidow]

No, you should be fine as long as you use all your original sensors

[sauron18]

Any update with this conversion?


Modified by sauron18 at 1:05 PM 12-6-2009

[khemiicalz]

Quote, originally posted by sauron18 »

Any update with this conversion? Modified by sauron18 at 1:05 PM 12-6-2009

i have a simple question for everyone,
what the advantage of using a aeg over a aba block?
and (if they were made), would a alumminim block with stand more than 300+hp?

[bwidow]

AEG blocks are used in the MK4 chasis, ABA blocks are used in MK1,MK2,MK3 chasis, As far as the swap goes i cant figure it out...Still cant get it to start.

As far as an aluminum block, I dont even think VW makes one....

[nothing-leaves-stock]

never made a aluminum block. they are all cast iron and mk3 aba will not bolt right into a mk4 or newer car as the bolting holes are differnt.

i agree. i don't think the trigger wheel is your issue. UNLESS it was install incorrectly, damaged or in the wrong postion

i have been looking around for info on this and i can't seem to find anything of any help(hence why i haven't called back yet)
i hate to say it but we may have to look at the car in person some how to figure this out if your totally stuck.
we will have to look into the ecu, cam sensor setup and other out puts to see if they are good and the synce together.

--Josh

[elRey]

bwidow, do you have access to another AEG ECU (stock)?
Can you take pictures and email them to me of:
-CAM position sensor this the sensor on and with it off (show the wheel).
-clear view of your plug wires to show which coil fire which cylinder.

Do you have access to a multi-meter. if so, check continuity on the CAM position sensor connector to the ECU connector:
CPS -> ECU
1 -> 62
2 -> 76
3 -> 67

[bwidow]

Thanks Josh & Elrey for your time and help with this nightmare of mine.
I will take pics of sensors and wires in the mean time ill check for continuty on those wires, The rotor pn# 06B-905-234-A (4 window awp 03') cam sensor pn# 058-905-161B
Ill try to have my wife to help with posting pic, When I last compared the AEG cam pulley with the awp rotor they appear to be the same configuration just smaller in diameter, The cam sensor for the AEG is mounted to the bottom of the wheel, while the 20v picks up it at the top. Ive tried mounting the rotor 180 to no avail and ruining the rotor, but i picked up another
thanks again guys.