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    Thread: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (NOT ABA, NOT 9A, NOT G60, etc)

    1. 07-07-2006 08:44 PM #26
      Quote, originally posted by twicepardoned »
      So in order for this to work you practically have to have the entire top end of a 1.8T???
      I think this means I will really be taking my time putting this project together. LOL
      Granted I don't think I want to put a 20v and a turbo setup on a stock 2.0 block... because sooner than later I imagine I'd find myself ticked when I blew the bottom end out.

      You're safe with AT LEAT 19 psi, most likely more.

    2. Member twicepardoned's Avatar
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      07-08-2006 12:29 PM #27
      Are you saying that a stock AEG block could handle almost 19psi??? That's crazy... what HP range does that put a person in? 200-250? depending on other mods I assume.
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    3. 07-08-2006 02:01 PM #28
      Yeah, at least the bottom end can.
      Don't worry about your bottom end too much right now unless you start heading closer to the 300hp range.

    4. Member twicepardoned's Avatar
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      07-08-2006 02:30 PM #29
      OK so here's another question: when it comes time to turbo charge do I want to use a 1.8T manifold??? and if that's true you could just use the entire turbo setup from a 1.8T... granted it's a weak as hell setup but it is possible right?
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    5. 07-08-2006 03:55 PM #30
      Hmm... manifolds (exhaust/intake) should be 20v manifolds, but do remember, however, that the 20vs are out of Passats and certain Audis. Things may be arranged differently, fitment might be a little different. But if stuff looks the same under the hood, there should be no other issues.

    6. Member elRey's Avatar
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      07-08-2006 05:36 PM #31
      20v head requires 20v manifolds whether they be from a jetta/gti, passat/audi a4, or audi tt 180/225.
      For simplicity, best from a jetta/gti or audi tt 180.
      8v manifolds WILL NOT bolt up to a 20v head.
      If you intend to go N/A or aftermarket turbo, you'll more than likely need
      a custom exhaust mani.
      cheapest turbo route is to go all stock 1.8T stuff used. Will not get you much power, but cheap.
      cheapest NA route is to use stock 1.8T stuff and have a custom connecting pipe fab'ed from 1.8T exhaust mani to your stock downpipe. Not the best for power, but I said cheapest.
      With any of these options, you'll still need to modify your stock pistons to get the 20v head on.
      We haven't even discussed wiring issues or software.
      But focus on the modifying/custom pistons obstacle. If you can't swallow that, don't think about this swap any longer.
      Rey

    7. Member twicepardoned's Avatar
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      07-08-2006 06:27 PM #32
      Maybe its partially mentality... But for me it just doesn't seem like the pistons would be as big of an issue. I've helped change pistons in a friends Probe (I hate those cars) but it didn't seem to difficult... Other than the inability for him to drive his car for about a week.
      The only thing that sounds difficult to me is finding a donor car to use. Because I am not going to garage my car for months and swap a piece at a time. When I do it I'm doing it all at one time.
      I'll probably take a week of vacation time from work and smash it out with 2 or 3 friends in a week and couple days.
      In fact I just has a friend in KC who was hit in the side in his Passat. It was the turbo also. But unfortunately instead of buying it back from the insurance company he sold it to them!!! So I'm currently chasin g that wreck down and trying to buy it from the insurance co.
      I just wish I would have known before he signed it off. I think they paid like $500 or something small like that.
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    8. Member elRey's Avatar
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      07-08-2006 07:44 PM #33
      twicepardoned are your plans NA or turdo?

    9. Member twicepardoned's Avatar
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      07-08-2006 08:14 PM #34
      Curreently I'm NA but obviously the end result would have to be Turbo.
      I'm ok with starting on a basic setup using the top end of a 1.8T on a 2.0 block... And turn up the boost a bit.
      But at the same time I won't even begin the process until I can put together the full set piece by piece in my garage or I get a parts car.
      A parts car is most reasonable because I need a 5 spd also. So basically I know it'll be awhile before I can start so I'm continuing to pursue my 8v setup.
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    10. 07-08-2006 08:29 PM #35
      Elrey. How would one take advantage of increased flow from the 20v head on an NA car? I know that Nate's record-breaking NA 2020 dub obviously uses the 20v head, but what engine mods take advantage of the lower CR?

    11. Member elRey's Avatar
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      07-08-2006 08:58 PM #36
      Quote, originally posted by Kougaiji »
      Elrey. How would one take advantage of increased flow from the 20v head on an NA car? I know that Nate's record-breaking NA 2020 dub obviously uses the 20v head, but what engine mods take advantage of the lower CR?

      With everything else that's involved with flow:
      intake
      headers
      exhaust
      cams
      and then software
      don't hold me to it, but I think I read that the 20v head flow ~20% more that 8v head on a flow bench.
      20v intake and TB shouldn't do anything to lower that increase.
      However, using the stock 20v exhaust mani coupled to 8v downpipe
      might lower that ~20% flow increase on the bench.
      Hypothetical, let's say your gain ~12% increase flow with all stock 20v stuff. You've lowered you CR to ~8.4:1.
      The loss in CR will over shadow your gain in flow.
      20v NA application wouldn't be worth it without custom pistons.
      VW did make a 20v 2.0L NA engine ove the pond, but those pistons
      are hard to get a hold of. A set was for sell on here a while ago.
      edit: found them: NA 20v pistons
      FS: 2.0 20V N/A engine kit
      Rey


      Modified by elRey at 6:13 PM 7-8-2006

    12. Member twicepardoned's Avatar
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      07-08-2006 10:46 PM #37
      My understanding of compression is limited... But I'll try and follow along.
      If using an na setup you have to change the pistons??? Couldn't you just deck the block?
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    13. 07-08-2006 11:44 PM #38
      Well, I would go ahead and buy regular 20v pistons. I heard somewhere, though, that the problem with them was the ring size or something

    14. Member elRey's Avatar
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      07-08-2006 11:52 PM #39
      Quote, originally posted by twicepardoned »
      My understanding of compression is limited... But I'll try and follow along.
      If using an na setup you have to change the pistons??? Couldn't you just deck the block?

      If you deck the block, you then have remove more crown height off the pistons. It you didn't the pistons would stick up out of the block @ TDC and interfer with head. Not a big deal since you are already modifying pistons anyway. But decking block vs custom pistons?????

      Quote, originally posted by Kougaiji »
      Well, I would go ahead and buy regular 20v pistons. I heard somewhere, though, that the problem with them was the ring size or something

      By regular 20v pistons, to you mean stock 1.8T 20v? You can't use those. They are for a small cylinder bore (81mm) and will not fit in your larger 82.5mm cylinder bore block.
      There are rare OEM 20v 2.0L pistons as I linked to, but they are hard to get.



      Modified by elRey at 8:53 PM 7-8-2006

    15. 07-09-2006 12:13 AM #40
      Quote, originally posted by elRey »
      By regular 20v pistons, to you mean stock 1.8T 20v? You can't use those. They are for a small cylinder bore (81mm) and will not fit in your larger 82.5mm cylinder bore block.
      There are rare OEM 20v 2.0L pistons as I linked to, but they are hard to get.
      Modified by elRey at 8:53 PM 7-8-2006

      yeah but the two links have two different piston sizes. Also, since this is an AEG and newer thread, are the ABA bore and the AEG bore the same? Just wondering in case you're referring to them as replacements to the ABA pistons.
      Ugh.. I wish more people showed interest in this.

    16. Member elRey's Avatar
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      07-09-2006 09:27 AM #41
      Ahhh, your right. The pistons I linked to are 81mm and will not work.
      I was wrong, I guess VW did not make a 2.0L 20v NA engine.
      For NA application you'll have to get custom pistons made.

    17. Member twicepardoned's Avatar
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      07-09-2006 11:00 AM #42
      So you're saying:
      1-go 20v with modified pistons for turbo
      or
      2-go 20v with entirely new pistons for NA
      I assume this is because if the CR was off (too high? or too low?) then the engine would have almost no ability to create big power. correct?
      And assuming you went ahead and put on a turbo application does this change the CR? or is that a mechanical thing?
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    18. 07-10-2006 10:50 AM #43
      I have been keeping up with this post for a while now. I am planning on doing this swap very soon. I will be building for FI and want low compression. My question is do I have to use the AEB head to get the 8.5:1 with the AEB gasket or can I use any of the 20v heads and use the AEB gasket? Or will that gasket only fit the AEB?

    19. Member elRey's Avatar
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      07-10-2006 11:10 AM #44
      8.4:1 CR was calculated using stock 2.0L gasket.
      I don't know what using other gaskets will give you.
      I believe all 20v have the same combustion volume.
      Though AEB heads have larger ports.
      Any 20v gasket will fit any 20v head.


      Modified by elRey at 9:56 AM 7-10-2006

    20. 07-10-2006 11:57 AM #45
      Quote, originally posted by elRey »
      8.4:1 CR was calculated using stock 2.0L gasket.

      So a stock AEG 2.0L head gasket will work on a 20v head?


      Modified by Shibby at 9:06 AM 7-10-2006

    21. Member elRey's Avatar
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      07-10-2006 12:35 PM #46
      2.0L + 20v head requires drilling out 3 holes in the gasket for oil return/pressure ventilation. They don't have to be percise.
      20v gasket + 2.0L block requires the gasket's cylinder bore to be enlarged from ~81mm to ~82.5mm. This does need to be some what percise.
      You choose.

    22. Member twicepardoned's Avatar
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      07-10-2006 12:53 PM #47
      good to know. I'm gonnago with drilling the oil passages.
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    23. 07-10-2006 07:44 PM #48
      what tensioner is being used for the 1.8t belt? i would like to stay away fro the gel filled 1.8t tensioner.

    24. Member twicepardoned's Avatar
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      07-11-2006 09:00 AM #49
      in the G60 forum they are using an OEM tensioner for the 20v swap. But I have no clue for us...
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    25. Member vwpat's Avatar
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      07-12-2006 09:53 AM #50
      Quote, originally posted by elRey »
      Ahhh, your right. The pistons I linked to are 81mm and will not work.
      I was wrong, I guess VW did not make a 2.0L 20v NA engine.
      For NA application you'll have to get custom pistons made.

      or use mine, which are oem. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2463563
      it will work in an AEG also (even better than an ABA). I just put ABA in the title since that is what I was using.

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