Unification Theory of all the exhaust cam info

[madonion]

The weird thing is that engine as been running flawlessly few years before I bought it and it was making around 150hp at the wheels. don't know what happened or how it was setup timing wise. What kind of numbers did you get out of your 16v ? how much do you charge to do the mod ? What kind of power can of power can I expect out off 288 vs exhaust cam mod.

[weeblebiker]

The weird thing is that engine as been running flawlessly few years before I bought it and it was making around 150hp at the wheels. don't know what happened or how it was setup timing wise.

I don't know either, maybe you should contact the po

What kind of numbers did you get out of your 16v ?

I don't know I have more imprtant things to spend time and money on than dyno #'s. it's fast enough I don't spend much time with the pedal to the floor on my favorite back road routes that I know like the back of my hand.

how much do you charge to do the mod ?
see my sig

What kind of power can of power can I expect out off 288 vs exhaust cam mod.

not sure but if you would like to do a dyno comparision, we would all apreciate it.

[madonion]

I did contact the 2 previews owners but they didn't mess with the engine internals. I have a name on the guy who build the engine originally but he is really hard to find. I'll do a little more research and I might send you my cam.

[weeblebiker]

ya should just pull the cam, set it on a counter and see where the timing chain mark should be and go from there

[madonion]

I've got my car running. Intake cam at 7theets and no advance on the cam pulley. So the intake cam is running 1/2 tooth retarded Idle is kind of rough at 900rpm and past 6000rpm it's also rough don't know why, it sounds like a VTEC and shakes a lot (I got a solid front engine mount and new rear I don't know if it could be because of that). I got 210PSi across all 4 cylinders. I got my wideband running. it's not running 100% yet.


Modified by madonion at 12:30 PM 10-13-2008

[weeblebiker]

ya better take a dremel and engrave those marks. the sharpie will wash off in the oil. ya don't want the timing mark to go away mid install

a small tach weld on the back side will hold it.

once your in the ball park of correct timing, you can use an adjustable timing belt gear to try out intake cam advance/retard adjustments sincethe exhaust cam adjusting does not effect power as much.


Modified by weeblebiker at 12:17 PM 10-28-2008

[weeblebiker]

set the cam on a counter with the lobes closest to the teeth straight up. the lobe center should be just slightly to the right of the tooth pointing straight up looking at the chain gear end. count three teeth clockwise from the left tooth resting on the counter and mark that tooth. like in the pics I posted. you are mimicing the intake cam

Sorry, I will not say mark at 5 or 6 or 7 teeth without holding the cam in my hand and doing this test myself.

oops! I typed "counter" in front of the clockwise, thats what I get for rushing the answer. sorry


Modified by weeblebiker at 3:50 PM 10-29-2008

[madonion]

When doing this mod will both cams have to be perfectly symmetrical to each other at TDC or at some setting it plausible to have intake cam slightly retarded. The way I'm setup, at 7.5 teeth intake cam is retarded few degrees and both cams are retarded a little because of the head shaving. I think I have quite a bit of overlap with this setting. I'm wondering if I should keep it like this, mod the cam key or get an adjustable timing gears and phase the 2 cams perfectly symmetrical at TDC.

Idle sucks even using fuel injection (Digi 1) but it's still manageable. And it feels a little underpowered maybe power kicks in too late in the rpm range or the intake cam is retarded too much. compression is arround 210PSI accross all 4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsPKI_lpg3w

That's a video of the engine when it was running in an other car before the head was rebuilt and engine swapped in my digi 1 corrado. It was running on monotronic at that time.

Modified by madonion at 7:57 PM 10-29-2008

[weeblebiker]

I'm on hietus the next week for family med issues, I may be able to think about your Q in the next couple days.

[madonion]

Mod 16V Ex as In / none/.402"/215/215/106/33.5/1.5/1.5/33.5/3/0/Suggested; Retard Int sprock 106 deg = 7.5 teeth - 2 deg adv; Rtd Pulley 1 cam deg

That would be how my cam are setup, except I don't have the -2deg advance on intake cam as suggested and i'm wondering how would this affect performance it looks like the engine doesnt behave like it should at high rpm it could be something else tho

Both cam could be retarded more than 1* because of severe head decking.

I could also try this if head decking retards timing enough.

Mod 16V Ex as In .402" 215 215 100.8 28.4 6.8 6.6 28.2 13.4 0.1 7.0 teeth clockwise (flip in. sprocket); rtd pulley 5.5 cam deg=1t-1.4; good top end, poor idle


Modified by madonion at 8:10 PM 11-1-2008

[hadaki]

I just complete my mod.
KR port & polish head,9A block and exhaust 4,2,1.
Using a Digi II system, i did not feel any difference compare with a euro intake cam.
Power not instance,only 3000rpm up to 6000rpm but I still feel my euro cam better and more respone.

[ps2375]

when was the last time your butt dyno was calibrated? I guess you put the Euro cam back in.

[hadaki]

Thank you,

I think so. coz oil tempreture shot up to 110`C at idle.

[ps2375]

Are you sure you have it timed correctly? I wouldn't expectthe oil temp to do that.

[hadaki]

I belive my timing is correct, coz the car idle perfect at 800rpm.
Any way to comfirm the timing and any body have a same set up can show the dyno chart?

[weeblebiker]

your a tooth advanced on your timing belt. that's what shooting your temps up and why you don't notice a power increase.


Modified by weeblebiker at 2:01 PM 11-17-2008

[hadaki]

I agree your answer.
I have a ajustable cam pulley. i had advance the pulley 3*.
Refering to the power down, is that because i'm running on 8V 1.8L DIGIFANT system?
Power gain only after 3000rpm. This power band not up to my expectation.
I did check on spark plug look like running rich.
Any idea about this?

Modified by hadaki at 7:06 AM 11-17-2008


Modified by hadaki at 5:06 PM 11-18-2008

[weeblebiker]

set the adj gear back to 0*
the increased cam lobe duration "advances" intake opening already.

[weeblebiker]

what you are doing and do not want to do is advancing your exhaust valve opening before bottom dead center, pushing gas that is still combusting through the valves, which increases head temps, increasing oil temps.

[weeblebiker]

maybe, just guessing anyway.

[hadaki]

Wil consider your point and go back to o*c.

Hope getting better.

[weeblebiker]

really though check your timing belt also. I'm guessing because I'm not looking at your setup.
but I'm basing my guess on what happened on my rocco when I ran it with a timing belt 1 (maybe 2) teeth advanced accidentaly. it lacked power and my egt and oil temps shot up.

[hadaki]

Wil remove the cover today, double check the timing belt again.
Must solve it out by this week, coz Sepang F1 track day coming soon this month end.
Thank's

[hadaki]

Retard 1.5* from the cam pulley.
Try this morning at Sepang F1 track car pull up to 6000rpm than becaome flat no more power.

Advise please.

[weeblebiker]

did you verify timing belt timing?

you may need to pull the intake cam and verify correct timing mark position and then verify inter cam timing.

the power falling off @ 6k rpm indicates the intake is advanced too much.

Modified by weeblebiker at 11:04 PM 11-30-2008

[hadaki]

Start this morning, notice running 3 cylinders.
One of the injector dead.
Dose it couse power falling at 6k rpm?

[weeblebiker]

someone help with this.

[ps2375]

Quote, originally posted by hadaki »

Start this morning, notice running 3 cylinders. One of the injector dead. Dose it couse power falling at 6k rpm?

Are you asking if the motor is running on 3 cylinders, if that will cause power to fall off at 6k rpm? I would think power would be falling off at every rpm.

[hadaki]

Problem solve after replace another set of injectors.
Now car pulling from 2000rpm up to 6800rpm.
Of cause not 5th gear. (020 2Y)
Replace a new tranmmission mount ( Under the gearbox)

Modified by hadaki at 4:08 AM 12-2-2008


Modified by hadaki at 4:14 AM 12-2-2008

[weeblebiker]

so hey hadaki, let us know what you think of the cam when you get on it with the rest of the systems running correctly


Modified by weeblebiker at 1:12 AM 12-3-2008

[skates]

so your saying in laymans terms that if i followh the second picture on this thread and relocate my timing mark on a second exhaust cam and put it on the intake side of my motor it'll weild a power increase?

[ps2375]

yes, cause the exhaust cam has more lift and duration than the intake.

[skates]

very cool, and then just set the timing up as per new timing mark and the rest of the timing marks and drive it?

[weeblebiker]

really don't try this unless you understand how the valvetrain works in the combustion cycle and how changing perameters such as lift and duration effect engine performance. oh and advance, retard,cw and ccw.
or you can send the cam to me to modify
a cam swap should not be your first "major mod". you can screw things up and bend valves or make another system not work right unless you do it right. don't try this unless you have a bently manual for your car.

actually, if you read through the entire thread you should have a good understanding of what is going on.


Modified by weeblebiker at 11:48 AM 12-3-2008

[RKsilver]

Well, okey guys, thats awsome information.

and now, i have totaly rebuild my 9A 16v and i have another 16v at the basement, i'm going to try the exhaust mod, well, my english aint so good, like i understand, this is what i have to do ?
take exhaust cam, cut the sides(how much?)
put the exhaust cam in,
move camshaft counterclockwize by 7 teeth, set 1# tdc by marking,
adjust cams to 1# cylinder compression stroke,
put the timing belt on and tension it,
hand turn the motor over 1 complete cycle, check my marks again

or am i missing something ?
Tnx for advice