Eaton guys represent...

[mrkrad]

Iceman's 2.0 ABA will be getting this Big bad mama jamma with two pully sizes (normal 1bar and 1.7bar). Not sure if he's doing turbo as well. probably won't need it with the big 2.0 to fill up lol. keep in mind like the g60 you can PORT these buggers. You can make them better with rotor options. so there's alot of unknowns that will be answered as people explore these options.

[Lysholm]

Quote, originally posted by jwatts »

All of the different types have their shortcomings... even the lysholm. Some show in power curves, whether it's lack of top end, bottom end, etc... some are noisy, some are known to be more delicate than others, etc. Everything is compromise, so if it bolts on and you don't like it... unbolt and trade for another option. We have a lot .

the inability for the traditional eaton to effectively pump at over 10psi, which cannot be overcome w/ a bigger eaton, that on this motor a healthy underdriven g60 can effectively and efficiently push 15-17psi, makes the eaton a performance downgrade as a standalone, i applaud you and Sam for all the digi I work, and the twin charger setup is a good solution...that being said, I want the noobs, as well as anyone going the eaton route to understand that as a single charger replacement, the eaton is good on the wallet but the consequence is lower performance after you hit the 10psi wall, this fact makes the eaton a poor choice. No porting, displacement increases, or anything else will make this charger anything else but the worst choice for this application, a fact that has been absolutely beaten to death over the years on this forum

Those who have been since the late 90's may recall that BBM scrapped their original plans to use the eaton due to the fact that they couldn't get the performance of a gladder...sorry dudes, but for this application this charger is the suck

Modified by Lysholm at 7:34 AM 3-31-2006


Modified by Lysholm at 7:35 AM 3-31-2006

[jwatts]

well, horsepower aside, it can produce torque in spades. Also, it is probably the most rugged design as well as probably being the most efficient when being bypassed in the normal G60 position (since there is no internal compression, and no seals draging on the casing). Then again, that probably depends on how much air it is trying to force through the bypass, which would be based on charger size and rpm, heheh.

The ruggedness comes from a rigid case casting and the degree of looseness that the rotor-to-case clearance can be run while still pumping air.

It may not be the perfect choice for a high hp, 1bar+ boost application, but I wouldn't call it the dead nutz wrong choice. The G-Lader is a tough cookie to replace, but drive an 8:1 8V for a while and yes, anything is better than that boostless torture.

[mrkrad]

hay dude its not a war i think we all can agree eaton << G60 << Lysholm on power. That has never been the debate or argument. never.

Sure i find it odd theres no eaton dyno's i'll pay for the first dyno session in atlanta whoever brings it, the hour is on me.

Sure i find it odd that lysholm owners are the only ones harping on the subject.

take it e-z man. it's all good we're all one happy family.

i certainly am not interested in selling Eaton kits. I am not invading anyones territory so back off.

I will be open minded and give everyone a shot once at least. And that is a good thing.

next up : ROTREX represent. Someone find me one of those buggers to strap on.

peas and corn world peas n all that jazz

[DAMACGON]

Quote, originally posted by Lysholm »

.... Those who have been since the late 90's may recall that BBM scrapped their original plans to use the eaton due to the fact that they couldn't get the performance of a gladder...sorry dudes, but for this application this charger is the suck

I understand you've got a Lysholm a you are happy with it ( too much money .. ) but your statement is not true, Eaton charger is great aplicacion, so don'y shoot so high, maybe an Eaton fires you up

But anyway, we are talking about a 250$ Charger which can produces enought boost and also push much more aire inside than others.

[fatherc_chris]

Quote, originally posted by mrkrad »

next up : ROTREX represent.

If you have $3500 Thats how much the conversion kit is

[Peter Tong]

Quote, originally posted by mrkrad »

hay dude its not a war i think we all can agree eaton << G60 << Lysholm on power. That has never been the debate or argument. never. Sure i find it odd theres no eaton dyno's i'll pay for the first dyno session in atlanta whoever brings it, the hour is on me.

Wow Sam... thats pretty generous

My props to jwatts, G60Scuzz, Guillem, kompressorRaddo, and mej3 for actually doing something with an Eaton instead of talking so much about it Now we only need to find out what the results are... Anyone close enough to Sam to take up his offer?

Iceman?

[kenny_blankenship]

give me 4 months, and I'll have a dyno of an eaton setup for you all to see...........

[jwatts]

Iceman can pay for his own damned dyno, LOL

[g60_c]

tell y'all what...

i'm gonna (hopefully) get the tranny back in my corrado this weekend.. friggin axles unbolting.. gggrrrr

i will get the pig inspected, and pop my m90 back on.. hopefully with some boost leaks fixed.. and get 'er dyno'd.

i'll even post up the charts...

approx cost on my conversion was $800 all said & told.. that was including a new IC, piping, charger, and paying a friend for his trouble to weld it up for me. does it outperform my g60? yeah, i feel it does... maybe that was due to the 3 months spent NA.. but, i can also boost 15-18 psi on this.. all.. day... long... spinning the charger @ revs the G60 would get VERY pissed at.. very quickly.. oh.. and it's rugged as all heck.. i've already sucked weld spatter through it, and repaired it to new.. lets see a G60, or for that matter, lysholm.. take that abuse, and still come back kickin

-nate

[Lysholm]

with two eaton guys next door to me sounds like it may be time to plan for a group dyno at Rennen, i would really like to get the slc on the rollers after i get it back together and i'm sure i could get three or more guys from our area

[g60_c]

i hate to be a dink, but.. i'm not a fan of rennen.. perhaps it was my first meet with some of their customers, but when i watch an older guy get an award for having done a BEAUTIFUL restoration on a beetle, and i then listen to a crowd of guys sporting rennen badges, make fun of him for it.. makes it so i won't be giving the shop that turned them out, any of my business....

however, i can always hope that the owners/operators are not the same, so @ some point, i'm sure i'll go down.

[Lysholm]

there's also podium performance, the mobile truck, if you/we attend any of the local road course events at NHIS, Hanscom etc., he's at those periodically, i used to see him at COM club and PCA Northeast events alot,

i wasn't aware of any attitude issues at Rennen, but that is pretty crappy

[g60_c]

Quote, originally posted by Lysholm »

i wasn't aware of any attitude issues at Rennen, but that is pretty crappy

i think it was customers, not workers... and i hate to use the term but.. "typical mkIV owners" was the feeling i got.. and since there was a plethora of rennen banners slathered on their cars, shirts, hats... i was left with a nasty taste in my mouth..

oh well.. i'll visit someday.. when i feel like paying for the fuel for my hungry corrado to drive the 2 hours to portland..

-nate

[Lysholm]

i'm sorry Sam i'm not trying to pick on you, and i think Peter is being rather pleasant...i'm generally the agressive one...which leads me to story time...

I think the reason i am so crabby about the subject is due in part to the fact that back when g60's were still relatively new, and $ less important than going faster, the eaton was repeatedly proven to not produce, i was actually dealing w/ Magnuson Products and considering an M45 back in the late 90's. I did a lot of back and forth tech w/ them, and ultimately they steered me to G60Performance(which is now BBM), i had already had my heart set on a twin screw but at the time was unaware that Whipple was in fact Lysholm principle, and didn't think that i could get an autorotor this side of the Atlantic. After a good chunk of time on the phone w/ Betz...and after he finally believed that i did not work for Eaton/Magnuson...he informed me that they had dropped the eaton in favor of the newly imported opcon that Kenne Belle had just become stateside distributor for...the reason given at that time was that the eaton couldn't even come close to matching the g60 once pushed above 10psi

fast forward a few years, more and more g60's are in bad repair and chargers are becoming paper weights and door stops at an greatly accelerated rate, Smaller companies like Motortechnik, HSM, ORZ, KK, and BBM are now performing repairs to chargers previously thought unrebuildible by the original stateside rebuilder, New Dimensions, who had been trained by VW sanctioned, and now defunct, TEC of Germany...colorful ND trivia is that only 2-3 GT1 modded chargers ever came out of New Dimensions, and all failed under warranty...more interesting is that ND also produced another version of the Failed Rimmer Engineering style Eaton kit also based on the M45 that was marketed as a non upgradeable replacement for stock g60 power. Oliver (ORZ) had a replacement kit in the works based on the European M63?(may have been a metric conversion) charger, but it was squashed when Magnusun, in their infinite wisdom, decided that because they had never heard of the M63, that no such charger was ever produced by eaton.

...in the midst of all this, several enthusiasts w/ delusions of grandeur, Joezx6 comes to mind, produced some very nicely engineered replacements, again mostly based on the M45, although most of these kits(along w/ their creators) simply vanished from the Vortex all together, or stopped responding/posting in g60 land, usually immediately and mysteriously after alleged dyno testing

so yeah, i may be a raving lunatic when it comes to this topic, but it is certainly not because i'm some ignorant jingoistic Lysholm owner, i was open-minded for the first or second time around, but now i'm just fed up w/ Eaton Drive-byes that leave dozens of g60s wounded and go absolutely nowhere,

Modified by Lysholm at 9:08 PM 4-1-2006

Modified by Lysholm at 9:09 PM 4-1-2006

Modified by Lysholm at 9:11 PM 4-1-2006


Modified by Lysholm at 9:18 PM 4-1-2006

[g60_c]

sounds like you've got pretty good reasoning behind your dislike of the eaton replacements...

it is sture, the eaton is not the best replacement for the G60.. it's not as efficient for one, but.. when it comes down to it for me.. price is a massive deciding factor... and reliability. after having my charger rebuilt by Gruven back in the day.. and having it fail 8k miles later, pissing oil like there was no tomorrow (just out of their 6 month warranty), i sent it to Oliver @ ORZ. The guy hooked me up, but now, somewhere around 15k later, an apex seal & wave-spring decided they didn't like their home, and chooched a displacer the price of my M90 conversion was somewhere around $800(ish), including a new IC, and paying a friend to do the welding... i've already beat the snot out of it, and while the car is now almost uncomfortably loud while driving, and the performance isn't what a g60 would show me @ similar boost levels, the price is right, AND more importantly, it keeps my car from being a slow-azz NA dog.

just my input, take it as you will

-nate

[Lysholm]

i think that is pretty reasonable, forgot all about gruven and the g40 main shaft bearing shim job they got caught doing, i think seals on rebuilds probably don't last as long because the traditional rebuild does not involve welding up the old seal grooves in the main shaft and then have them reground, i know BBM and ORZ used to do it as an additional feature but i think few people were interested in spending the x-tra $200

if your car has gotten to the the point were the noise is annoying, it may be time to move the t-body this will elliminate the blower whine and reduce parasitic drag, although this depends a lot on whether you have the integral bypass

i try to spend a fair amount of time at New England Dragway on the open track nights, im me the next time you are the mood to flog that thing, as i would like to see you you managed to cram the 90 in that space

[g60_c]

Quote, originally posted by Lysholm »

if your car has gotten to the the point were the noise is annoying, it may be time to move the t-body this will elliminate the blower whine and reduce parasitic drag, although this depends a lot on whether you have the integral bypass i try to spend a fair amount of time at New England Dragway on the open track nights, im me the next time you are the mood to flog that thing, as i would like to see you you managed to cram the 90 in that space

oh, i love the noise gives me a big 'ol hardon most every time i drive it.. but it's certainly not a car to go and pick up a date in... not unless you KNOW she's into cars.. couple that with some solid motor mounts, and the cabin vibrates.. alot.. actually had one girl squirmin on the seat one day.. guess her jeans were too tight

next time i'm headed to NED i'll try to remember to give you a shout.. kinda a long drive from here though.. friggin 4+ hours oh well.

as for how it got crammed in there.. well.. a BFH came into play a few times.. as did a grinder.. and a plasma torch she's ghetto, but it'll be happier once i make new brackets & such @ work..

[mrkrad]

you know how to quiet the eaton. turbo on the intake, and turb on the exhaust. better than any silencer kit muahaha

seriously the turbo does a helluva job on silencing the eaton. i was shocked at how quiet the car was, i thought i was driving a 2.0T(FSI) no lag no whine

[g60_c]

Quote, originally posted by mrkrad »

you know how to quiet the eaton. turbo on the intake, and turb on the exhaust. better than any silencer kit muahaha seriously the turbo does a helluva job on silencing the eaton. i was shocked at how quiet the car was, i thought i was driving a 2.0T(FSI) no lag no whine

i agree.. thought about going that route, but.. turns out i not only was pressed for time.. i was broke too .. got better things to do right now.. like build an engine that will fully appreciate the eaton

someday.. someday

[Rennen Performance]

Quote, originally posted by g60_c »

i think it was customers, not workers... and i hate to use the term but.. "typical mkIV owners" was the feeling i got.. and since there was a plethora of rennen banners slathered on their cars, shirts, hats... i was left with a nasty taste in my mouth.. oh well.. i'll visit someday.. when i feel like paying for the fuel for my hungry corrado to drive the 2 hours to portland.. -nate

I just came across this and thought I should comment. Niether myself or my partner (the 2 owners) attended the Windsor show this year. Although I did hear of some ranting and inconsiderate words that were thrown around at the awards ceremony that we spoke to some people about. PLEASE dont confuse this with the thoughts, opinions, and actions of our shop. We have a strong appreciation for the time and effort that goes into building aircooled cars and applaud anyone in this industry - water or air cooled - for the time, patience and money that goes into building these cars. I assure you had we been at the actual show, we would have made a statement against these particular individuals. Feel free to come up and visit us anytime so that we can meet you face to face and hopefully you will leave with different thoughts about our company.

Thanks-
Rick

[mej3]

Ok, Ok, Ok... back on topic. We may be re-registering and insuring the werewolf to go to the OSD event in Seekonk on april 23rd. That'd be a good time to get it dynoed and if that offer still stands (peter?) we'll do it!

[werewolfsburg]

hip hip

[thecorradokid24]

I know nate, the m90 setup looks good and from what I've heard should be a good replacement on the g60 as hes had problmes with g60's. I would be willing to go down with ya and dyno so these guys have some dynos to compare with as we have pretty much the same stuff done, and run about the same psi, I might run more then you but im not sure i run upwards of 19+ psi on my 65mm, I also have a friend from mass with the turbo swap done, would be nice to have all 3 of us there to see what we make for power. All we would need is a lysolm for all 4 options. Should make a day of it!

[g60_c]

Quote, originally posted by thecorradokid24 »

I know nate, the m90 setup looks good and from what I've heard should be a good replacement on the g60 as hes had problmes with g60's. I would be willing to go down with ya and dyno so these guys have some dynos to compare with as we have pretty much the same stuff done, and run about the same psi, I might run more then you but im not sure i run upwards of 19+ psi on my 65mm, I also have a friend from mass with the turbo swap done, would be nice to have all 3 of us there to see what we make for power. All we would need is a lysolm for all 4 options. Should make a day of it!

i'd be game.. trans is back in.. just got rear susp back in this eve.. waiting on a few misc parts.. then inspection, and a wash.. and she'll be back to "ready to rumble" status i'd be def game to head down & play on the dyno some day... i'll post up when i'm set!

-nate

[g60_c]

Quote, originally posted by Rennen Performance »

I just came across this and thought I should comment. Niether myself or my partner (the 2 owners) attended the Windsor show this year. Although I did hear of some ranting and inconsiderate words that were thrown around at the awards ceremony that we spoke to some people about. PLEASE dont confuse this with the thoughts, opinions, and actions of our shop. We have a strong appreciation for the time and effort that goes into building aircooled cars and applaud anyone in this industry - water or air cooled - for the time, patience and money that goes into building these cars. I assure you had we been at the actual show, we would have made a statement against these particular individuals. Feel free to come up and visit us anytime so that we can meet you face to face and hopefully you will leave with different thoughts about our company. Thanks- Rick

i applaud you for coming in & posting this!

I know that the actions of a few individuals can make or break it for many others, but even knowing that, i wasn't thrilled. It makes me very happy to see your response regarding it however. When i make it down to Portland to dyno w/the corrado, i'll be sure to swing in & say hi!

-nate

[G60Scuzz]

Wow I come back and there are two pages

Its cool to see a few setups and more than just a few with interest. I know a few of you have been following the thread in the Corrado forum and just to inform everyone else, the M90 kit got the green light.. Its looking out to be a complete charger kit for under 1000 bucks and you just have to do piping.. We chose the M90 not because of size, but because of availibility

[mrkrad]

man just do the piping to complete the kit. even if its a low $$ option.

i'd also do a FMIC option as well (with piping). since the eaton makes more heat a good fmic would go on there as well.

don't forget to offer S Porting of the eaton and such too.

every bit counts

[G60Scuzz]

That is true however I am not sure as to the cost of the machine work yet.. I dont want the cost of the kit to deture anyone, so I guess I will have to see what the price will be to do everything..

[jwatts]

If it's going to be a "cheap" Bolt on kit, then just try to tie it into the factory, or eurosport tubing, then have something for an air filter.

[swingwing205]

Quote, originally posted by mrkrad »

156whp isn't bad consider most g60's are in the 160's on a good day.. i bet if you setup the choices of boost at the same 15psi you'd get a +/-10psi spread at best. but the cost to the pocketbook spread would be much wider!

Sam, are you still doing the custom G60 chips? I've almost got this M90 retro done ( raising a little girl and countless other things had me stopped for a while ), and I REALLY would like to get in touch with you on this...

Would you please IM me your phone #? I used to have it a while back, but I've lost it. I know you're the man to talk to about the G60 management system, and if you still have the desire and the equipment to make those custom chips, I'm in the market.

[Rennen Performance]

Quote, originally posted by g60_c »

When i make it down to Portland to dyno w/the corrado, i'll be sure to swing in & say hi! -nate

We'd like that

[Iceman666]

To explain things a bit here is why I decided to go eaton.

First reason...they are cheap and releable. If by chance i do blow one up its easy to find a replacement.

Second reason, while the lysholm does yeild more power, that damn whine would drive me NUTS, while the eaton's sound is MUCH less ear pearcing

Third, with my head porting I was only seeing 10 psi out of my G60 with a 65mm pully, so if i can get that out of an eaton as well ill be making the same power and staying in the eatons happy range!

Now then My original plan was to use a M62 at 10 psi and then slap a turbo on top of it(and try out some different layouts and configurations to see what works best) in an effort to bust jwatts balls and make 300whp.....it could happen!

That M90 just kind fell into my lap to i figured why not try it out as well, and compare it with the M62 and G60.

Anyway I have two chargers laying around and my car is still at the bodyshop so the waiting continues

[Andrew Stauffer]

Quote, originally posted by Iceman666 »

Second reason, while the lysholm does yeild more power, that damn whine would drive me NUTS, while the eaton's sound is MUCH less ear pearcing

Lysholms don't whine, BBM kits whine.

[mrkrad]

i dunno i've heard a few 660whp twin screw cobra's and they do whine.... b