-tailBack from the dead... the RotisseRabbit

[giver]

VERY cool project man. The fact that you're restoring an old rusted out Rabbit is pretty cool.
But the fact that you built most of your own tools to do it is pretty damn impressive.

*click on track this topic*

[tosoutherncars]

Quote, originally posted by roccodingo »

great progress Duncan, the car is looking good man.

Hehehe, no it doesn't, it looks like a bag of crap! But I must have the only '77 with a truly rust-free driver's floor... and that's what counts! I can always make it pretty later...

So what do you guys think? Weld up the A-pillar panel (see page 1) to regain a little structural integrity, and then hit the inner & outer rockers?

-D

[roccodingo]

Quote, originally posted by tosoutherncars »

Hehehe, no it doesn't, it looks like a bag of crap! But I must have the only '77 with a truly rust-free driver's floor... and that's what counts! I can always make it pretty later... So what do you guys think? Weld up the A-pillar panel (see page 1) to regain a little structural integrity, and then hit the inner & outer rockers? -D

Well if ya no longer going to be able to look thru the floor then it cool

I see you have some bracing already fixed in the door apertures, but yeah, your A pillar plan sounds right..

What size MIG wire u burning ?? 0.6 mm ???

[rabfan]

Great work! I was trying to remember who found the full length floor pans. Glad I found your post.
Make sure your weld wire is .023 or less for sheet metal. If you use .030 you will blow thru.
This thread=my watch list

[tosoutherncars]

Quote, originally posted by rabfan »

Great work! I was trying to remember who found the full length floor pans. Glad I found your post. Make sure your weld wire is .023 or less for sheet metal. If you use .030 you will blow thru. This thread=my watch list

Hmm, interesting! I see now why everyone keeps asking me what thickness of wire I'm using! Sorry, I'm a little dense sometimes...

Can't wait to get started on those rockers, I think it'll make a big difference!

-D

[tosoutherncars]

So... I've posted pictures of the area that was completely rusted, and that I totally cut out, in front of the A-pillar.

That's what was on the agenda tonight. The aftermarket patch I'm using (from eBay.de I think) fits relatively well, although it doesn't cover the area at the top left that's surface-rusted from having mud etc. thrown up by the wheels, and then sitting on that little ledge. Stupid design. Anyway, I'll do a seperate patch for that later.

So... I'm attaching it to the inner fender first, then I can level the car and (if need be) lever the inner fender up or down, to make sure the car is square before welding the inner fender (FINALLY!) to the A-pillar.

Everything is lining up nicely, with the inner rocker just test-fitted & clamped into place.

Hard to tell from that angle, but the top 4/5ths of that panel is seam-welded. There are six spot welds in the bottom 8", just because that portion had a bit more overlap. I'm getting the settings down a little better on the welder; the spot welds are easy. It's the seam (actually stitch) welds that are tough; I want to keep going, but I have to make myself stop after maybe 1.5 seconds each time, and allow it to cool. Sloooow going.

And that's pretty much it; welds ground down a little. I'm going to do the inside seam too, then seam-seal both sides. I'm giving serious thought to having the entire shell sandblasted once I'm done with all the metal work, just to get rid of any doubt, so I may need to redo all the seams again, but meh. Besides, I've got my own 'blaster... I guess if I *really* wanted to take my time, I could do the whole thing myself.

-D

[F0xz0r]

Looking very good. Keep up the good work.

Btw.. as many replacement panels as you've gotten at this point your getting close to building a new rabbit

[tosoutherncars]

Quote, originally posted by F0xz0r »

Looking very good. Keep up the good work. Btw.. as many replacement panels as you've gotten at this point your getting close to building a new rabbit

Hehe, thanks. Yeah, the idea was to learn how to do all of this, so that the next car I do, I don't have to worry about having the skills, and I can tackle something that makes a little more sense money-wise. Maybe an old Porsche RS, or I'd love to do a BMW 3.0 CSI.

-D

[polov8]

Bump, because this does NOT deserve to be on page 11 ever!!!

Seriously inspirational stuff, and it goes to show what a bunch of quitters most people are!

[tosoutherncars]

Hehe, thanks man... had a look at your build thread, that is some serious attention to detail!! Very nice...

Big update today! Got a lot of work done.

Since the patch just in front of the A-pillar is in, I had to attach it to the A-pillar I fabricated, that's already in place. Had to weight the front down a little (bag of cement on the suspension tower) to get it all to sit straight...

Replaced some consumables on the welder today, tip, nozzle etc., and it's running much better now! The seam well turned out very nicely! Looks better in person than below.

So I've primed over that... As before, I'll seam-seal this of course, but I'm still contemplating sandblasting the whole unibody once it's ready for pre-paint.

So YAY! An honest, solid A-pillar, attached to a pretty rust-free inner fender! Wow, that feels good.

Hmm, what's next? Well, I could throw this on...

But does that make any sense? I wouldn't be able to see the inner rockers or the rear rocker / frame rail. So I guess they're next.

I could now cut open the rocker without worrying about the car falling apart. There's enough stiffness in the A pillar, door frame, floor, and my welded braces to keep everything lined up. As I suspected, it was pretty grungy...

All clamped up... NOS VAG panel, courtesy of Far Out Parts.

And with the welding started...

And just about all done. I did them way closer than required, but hey, better too many than too few! Most of them are slightly convex, and I wasn't really thinking... The outer rocker lower flange needs to go over that, and needs a nice smooth surface to weld to, so I guess I've got a little grinding to do...

So that's it. Back at it tomorrow...

-D

[tosoutherncars]

And another update! So the next panel to go under the knife is the rear frame rail / rear inner rocker. For those who haven't seen it, that's all one big piece that meets in the middle where the rear beam mounts.

Here's what the center section of mine looks like... this is with the outer rocker off, and a large hole cut in the inner strengthening panel that stiffens the rear half of the rocker.

An hour or two of scraping, chiseling, heat gun etc. got the area cleaned up a little.

Looks OK in areas, right? Well, just to make sure I'm not wasting my time...

Rust sucks. OK, gotta do the whole thing.

Now, I'm not sure how I'm going to do this... it's huge, and the rocker (front half) attaches to the inner floor, and the inner stiffening panel, and the front inner rocker, and the outer rocker. The rear half attaches to the floor, wheelwell, rear quarter, rear panel, *and* is covered over by the rear crossbeam.

I've started drilling out all the spotwelds... drill, drill, drill... but as far as I can tell, I'm going to have to remove at least the inner stiffening panel, leave the outer rocker off, and temporarily remove 3" off the ends of the rear crossbeam in order to get this thing out in one piece. HAS ANYONE DONE THIS BEFORE? I'd love to hear from someone who could tell me how it went for them...

Ooh. and just because it made me laugh... "How to get the change out from under your carseats"

-D


Modified by tosoutherncars at 4:53 AM 9-11-2006

[glibobbo21]

amazing...keep it coming

[tosoutherncars]

PANELS

I get a lot of questions about sourcing panels, so I thought I'd recap here.

Most of the BLACK panels I'm using (floors, rockers) were manufactured by Klokkerholm, a European company who DOES NOT SELL TO THE PUBLIC. http://www.klokkerholm.de

Choose English as your language; go to e-shop; click product search; and choose VW golf 1. Look at all those panels!!

Here in Canada, their importer / reseller is Cross Canada Parts, http://www.crosscanadaparts.com. THEY DO NOT SELL TO THE PUBLIC EITHER, but they can tell you who your local reseller is. In my case, it's my local Crappy Tire, just a few blocks away.

You may notice that CCP's VW Golf page only shows a few panels. They can special order the whole Klokkerholm range, but it may take some convincing.

And finally, for original panels, see either; the dealership ($$$) or;

The guys from Far Out Parts, http://www.faroutparts.com who import some panels (like my inner and outer rockers) from South Africa. Pretty expensive, slow shipping if what you need isn't in stock, and (frankly) lousy customer service... but it's a small outfit, and they're car guys. YMMV. **UPDATE - Far Out have now gone out of business. I don't know of anyone else who imports from SA**

And of course, eBay. And here on the 'tex. And small buy & sell sites. And, and... You get the idea. I've got two NOS OE front aprons, a NOS OE small-tail panel... you've just got to keep your eyes peeled, and get there before I do!! hehehe.

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

-D


Modified by tosoutherncars at 12:37 AM 1-18-2009

[4]

seems like you shoulda just bought all new panels and put together a car from scratch

good work though

[tosoutherncars]

Quote, originally posted by 4 »

seems like you shoulda just bought all new panels and put together a car from scratch good work though

Hehehe... yeah, sometimes I look at the car and wonder what part of the original car will be left! Hmm, the roof, I guess...

[-teknien-]

this guy should get the purple heart medal for his efforts in saving a pretty much gone rabbit

[Big CADDY]

gawd, I thought My project was a lot of work. .... that's right, it was a lot of work.

hey, at least you don't have to cut the roof off and replace it like I did.

Project looks great man. keep up the pics and the updates.

[tosoutherncars]

Quote, originally posted by Big CADDY »

gawd, I thought My project was a lot of work. .... that's right, it was a lot of work. hey, at least you don't have to cut the roof off and replace it like I did. Project looks great man. keep up the pics and the updates.

Hehe, thanks man! When I'm low on inspiration, I go back and read your thread... watching your car come together always makes me want to get out there and work!

So... no? Nobody has ever replaced a rear frame rail? This thing?

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

[Shawn M.]

most people lack the motivation to save a rabbit that far gone. I know Im learning vicariously through your efforts as Im sure others are.
You can dooo iiitt.

[Big CADDY]

heh, I had about an 8 inch section of that part that I had to cut and replace right near where the rear axle bolts on. that steel is a bit harder to bend then the thin body panel material.

[tosoutherncars]

Yeah... harder to bend, but easier to weld!! Going out to the garage now, should have a big update tomorrow!

Oh, and for those who haven't already seen it...

http://www.voodoo-people.com/~daz/mull/wmv/

These are the best vids ever, these guys in Sweden who did a total resto of a junked out 240Z... I LOVE watching this!! Gives me courage.

[tosoutherncars]

Big update... spent a few hours today. I've decided there's no other choice but to cut out the whole inner rocker & rear frame rail, drill out all the spot welds, get the new one in as quickly as possible, clamp it all up... and then figure out what else needs to be patched around it, before welding it all up. I'll explain...

The problem is, the piece is huge. And, attached to everything. The inner rocker starts in the middle of the door, runs all the way back to where the rear suspension bolts up... and then flips over, turns into the frame rail, and runs back to the very rear corner of the car.

As an assembly, it's welded to;

- the front inner rocker
- the floor
- the outer rocker
- the inner rocker reinforcement
- a small rear stiffening piece
- the web piece that runs up to the inner wheelwell
- the inner wheelwell
- the outer wheelwell
- the rear floorpanel
- the rear crossbeam
- the rear clip

and probably some other things I'm missing. There's just no way to do it in small bits; I'd wreck it, trying to split it up into components and doing it piece by piece. So everything has to come apart, so it can go in in one shot. *BUT* the lower four inches of the inner wheelwell is pretty rotten, so I have to replace that. Weeell, let's get the frame rail clamped in place first, and *then* we'll worry about that.

Chopped out the inner rocker reinforcement. I'll make a new one... it was pretty far gone. Especially near those two bumps (drain?) It was a bit of a b1tch to get out... in the end it came out in pieces.

At the rear, the corner *looked* fine, but it feels like filler. Sure enough a little work with a wire brush...

Shows that someone has been there before. Well you know that's coming off...

Actually doesn't look toooo bad underneath. I'll do a little localized patching there with sheet metal... and get the outer corner patch, probably from rabbitparts.com, I'm pretty sure they carry one.

Of course, all the spot welds needed drilling out, I'm guessing 150-200 or so...

And as before, I find that chopping out as much of the piece itself, and then splitting the seams / welds with a hammer and cold chisel, works best. So here's the result at the end of the day...

Whew!! Still have some little bits to chop off... and I have to figure out how I'm going to get it under the rear crossbeam. I think I may have to chop off the outside 1" of it, put the new piece in place and then re-weld the endpiece... Unless anyone has a better idea?

And just for kicks, here's yours truly, at the end of a long garage session. No, that's not a beard... just dirt.

And since I've never brought it up, I'll add, to anyone doing this sort of stuff... be safe. I *always* have heavy gloves and safety glasses on... a dual-canister respirator when grinding or spraying anything nasty, and especially when sandblasting... Welding helmet, long sleeves, blah blah blah. No car is worth getting silicosis, or tetanus, or losing your vision with a metal sliver in the eye. Play nice.

-Duncan

[A1-steaksauce]

I like this guy ... he is doing some cool things. keep it up!

[Mk2Vr5]

Great work
Nice to see someone saving a rabbit that far gone.
I hope that I don't have to change the frame rails on my mk1.

[polov8]

Your my rust hero!

[Big CADDY]

wish you were closer, I'm feeling the itch to get dirty doing a resto again..........

wait, no, no I'm not

But, I'd hang out and drink some brews with ya.

I'll be starting another full blown project on my Helios 89 jetta 16v next. full stock. oh, minus the under carraige painting.

[tosoutherncars]

UPDATE: Well, the rear arm's just about all out. The bottom 4" of the inner wheelwell is pretty grotty, as I think I mentioned. I wanted to repair any bits that will be inaccessible once I slap the rear arm on... Especially the very front corner. Time to do some sheet metal fabbing.

Hammered out a basic shape, marked the edges, trimmed it up a bit.

Chopped out all the rust: top edge runs along the bottom of the floor joint, which is surprisingly rust-free. It's the inside lower surfaces of the 'frame' members that are the rustiest...

Flanged the top edge, punched holes in it, bent the lip on the inside edge and a small tab on the very bottom, as per the original. Then, time to weld.

And... Primed. Pix, top and bottom. It'll look even better once that seam's been filled.

Now the bad news... in looking at the rest of the inner wheelwell, I'm thinking I might as well replace the damned thing. I'll sleep on it...

-D

[echassin]

This is unreal.

Fantastic.

[roccodingo]

Coming along nicely Duncan,

Can you post a pic / link of your flanging tool and hole punch mate. Easier to make the tools needed here than try and buy them..

.

[Twin Weber]

comeing along very nicley!!! Ceep up the good work man!! cant wait to see the thing on four wheels again!!!

[tosoutherncars]

Quote, originally posted by roccodingo »

Coming along nicely Duncan, Can you post a pic / link of your flanging tool and hole punch mate. Easier to make the tools needed here than try and buy them.. .

http://www.eastwoodco.com/jump...ODUCT

That should work... Those are the pliers I have. I'd like the jaws to be a little deeper... but otherwise, no complaints!

-D

[H8SV8S]

Awesome.

[Still Lost]

Great Work but two questions:

How did you attach the rotissere inside the frame rails?

Also what psi do you run the sand blaster at and what type of grit do you use, or I should say reccomend for body spraying not for heavy steel suspension parts or the like?

[tosoutherncars]

Quote, originally posted by Still Lost »

Great Work but two questions: How did you attach the rotissere inside the frame rails? Also what psi do you run the sand blaster at and what type of grit do you use, or I should say reccomend for body spraying not for heavy steel suspension parts or the like?

1> The rotisserie bolts on at the stock bumper locations; at the back I did up a jig out of 3" square, thick-wall tubing. At the front, I modified and used the stock bumper mounts, which was *much* easier and worked better. I should have some pix...

2> I really wouldn't recommend blasting large, exterior-surface body parts, especially anything large & flat (i.e. hoods, roof, doors) that can be sanded mechanically. The physical action of sandblasting actually pulls the surface upward, which causes ripples that are difficult to avoid. Areas with lots of high, compound curves (i.e. the engine bay) are easier to do.

That being said, if you want to blast sheet metal, there are lots of blasting media made specifically for various surfaces; everything from plastic beads, to walnut shells. Eastwood (http://www.eastwood.com) has a nice write-up.

-D

[tosoutherncars]

Update. Still working on the driver side inner wheelwell. Had a good look at the NOS part available at Far Out Parts... but I just can't justify the $$, or the time waiting for the part. I'll make do...

So the bottom 4" is rusted, since it was covered by the rear frame arm, which was apparently filled with water. Or battery acid, or some ****. Everything above the seam (where it meets the floor) is fine, so I'm replacing it just below the seam, as with the previous patch. The next 16" or so is made more complicated, however, by the strut tower.

So I drilled out all the welds, and very delicately tried to cut through the inner wheelwell panel, without going through the strut tower. Worked well... Here's what the piece that came out looked like.

As I had hoped, the strut tower was pretty rust-free. Stripped it with a wire wheel, sprayed it with rust converter... Time to get to work on a patch panel. Here's the hole I had to fill...

Well, the strut tower is still attached to the inner wheelwell by an upper line of welds, just visible in the last picture. So I obviously couldn't lap weld there. But, since I had left myself room on both sides...

Not sure if I've mentioned it... this is the toy I use to do some of my panels. Complete with floormats... and welded to an old desk frame. Not pretty, but it works. Roller / shear / pan brake.

The patch went in really nicely, welds worked out great. I plug-welded both the upper flanges, and between the patch and the strut tower. I tacked the left seam flush, which takes forever, but looks nice. I haven't touched the right side, there's another patch needed there. I seam-welded the patch to the strut tower, both at the bottom edge, and along the sides, for strength. Didn't get any detailed pictures, sorry.

And, a shot from underneath; remember, this will all be enclosed by the new frame arm once it goes on.

So that's it for now... another fun night in the garage!!

-D


Modified by tosoutherncars at 4:59 AM 9-25-2006