ATP GT28RS Eliminator: Everything you need to know, Part II

[TyrolSport]

If you missed the first part of our GT28RS eliminator install, please read this before proceeding in this thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2774798

During our last episode, we were ready to bolt the turbo onto the manifold. In order to do this, you use and OEM 3 bolt ko3/04 gasket. The gasket looks like this:

Two gaskets that look identical, correct? Look again, as one is an OEM dealer gasket, and one is from an aftermarket supplier. We spread the gaskets apart, and they are both four plys:

However, a closer look reveals that the factory VW gasket has thicker plies, and is cut much smoother than the aftermarket unit. (OEM 4 ply unit on top, thicker rough-cut aftermarket unit on bottom):

Make sure that you use OEM quality gaskets, or request them from your preferred shop. We only use the OEM units after having failures with the non-OEM units.

Before we could mount the turbo to the manifold, we ran into another issue.The 90 degree fitting points directly at the coolant feed line:

Edit: As an additional note: The hardline fabrication below for the coolant line would not be necessary if the coolant line was run towards the bottom of the turbo. We elected to run it towards the top. Running it towards the bottom will save some time and fabrication.

You have two options to rectify this situation. The first is two shift the coolant fittings to the side, which we find unacceptable, as they touch the turbine housing:

To fix this issue properly, we fabricated a hard line and added a 45 deg fitting(instead of the 90 provided)

The hardline gives the added benefit of moving the soft braided line away from the manifold. We would consider this mandatory for a car that sees track usage. Street cars and drag cars would probably not need this modification, but this is at your own discretion.

With the hard line fitted, the vac fitting points in the wrong direction now:

There are two options to fix it:

Rotate the fitting:

Or cap off with a 1/8 pipe plug:

We elected to cap it, as the fitting was superfluous.

Here is another hardware tip. We exclusively use 2.7T S4 nuts on all of our installs. Here is a picture of the S4 nuts vs. standard copper nuts provided:

Use the S4 nut on the turbo to manifold stud(the nut is not stripped, it’s covered in anti-seize):

The coolant return line from turbo to the block is straightforward:

ATP was supposed to provide the studs which adapt from the 8mm threads in the turbo oil return flange, but they were missing. We prefer bolts anyway, but 8mm wouldn’t fit.

We drilled it out and inserted the bolts.

Here is the oil return line fitted. Straightforward, right? Not. (The gasket is misplaced in the picture, we know)

The oil return line does not clear the inner axle boot shield(which is mandatory for a track car. Bend the return line up to prevent this interference)

We needed to neck down the GHL 3” to mate to the 2.5” catback, so we welded on a 3” to 2.5” transition and stainless extension.

Here is the 3” GHL Downpipe mounted up(Note S4 nuts used again):

On to the modifications required to install the ATP big bore inlet, which are some of the more difficult ones in this install.

Before we can even install it, we need to work on the inlet. ATP inserts a bolt to close a hole in the big bore inlet. This is unacceptable:

We tapped the hole and inserted a pipe plug to open up the airflow.

There are two major issues with the ATP big bore inlet. This unused mounting hole on top of the tranny interferes with the big bore inlet:

We ended up cutting and grinding it flat so that the big bore could sit on the transmission properly:

Here is the shifter cable bracket provided by ATP to remount the shifter cables above the big bore inlet:

However, one of the shifter cables does not reach when mounted in the bracket.

The cable needs to be moved forward, but the bracket is not far forward enough.

Time to fab. Again. What else is new? Cut the offending piece off:

Weld in an extension:

And paint:

The speedo sensor hits the big bore inlet silicone. Just rotate it out of the way:

Part III will be coming in another 1-2 weeks, as we try to finish this off and actually start the car…..

Modified by tyrolkid at 7:14 AM 9-6-2006

[Dilemmah]

PART2 is out! good work

d i l e m m a h

[TallaiMan]

I don't recall having such a hard time... 2003 GTI 1.8T at EIP... I guess it's the luck of the draw with ATP stuff. Oh, wait, that's already been established.

[Draig]

That looks like an awful lot of work for a kit that's supposed to fit using the stock exhaust mani.

[Hetzen]

wow that's a lot of work.

[sla07]

definitely way too much work...i couldnt even begin to figure out what i would do in all these scenarios...i dont have access to these tools you guys are using...needless to say this is not for the "faint of heart" ...lol....kudos to you guys

[ruso]

Quote, originally posted by Draig »

That looks like an awful lot of work for a kit that's supposed to fit using the stock exhaust mani.

x 2 LOL

However, thanks to Mike for spending the extra time to provide this writeup.

[SnowGTI2003]

Wow. I'm a little shocked by the lack of thought that went into these parts.

Thanks for posting!

[davidraeside]

Great post, makes me feel more and more confident that i can do this install in my garage... hopefully you guys throw it up on a dyno too for some numbers.

Still, like others have posted, i can't help but scratch my head and wonder how ATP release a product with so many oversights... luck of the draw i guess...

Thanks for the great info, looking forward to Pt III!

[skydaman]

So ATP kit + 40 hour install time + $600 in tools + software = More than the price of an APR kit

Looks like the ATP kit really isnt a $$ saver.

That really is a great write up guys! Good job and thanks.

[beachball6]

sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo soooooooooooooooo sooooooooooooo glad i didnt buy this in feb, i had my finger on the buy button but went the a 20 series ko4. even if this makes 100 more hp than my ko4 the extra amount of work is insane!

ps this is a very good write up for those of you who do buy this set up. i wouldnt have had this at my disposal 8mo ago and would still be rocking a ko3s.

[peruski]

wow.

I installed an APR stage 3 kit on my GTI in 2002...I can tell you this.

I did not drill, modify, weld, paint, grind, fabricate, or otherwise alter a single thing.
Honestly 100% bolt on and definitely worth the extra money.

FWIW it is nice to see that Mike takes the extra time to do a quality install though.

Mike

[beachball6]

Quote, originally posted by SnowGTI2003 »

Wow. I'm a little shocked by the lack of thought that went into these parts. Thanks for posting!

anything to make $$$ its a shame really.

[zemun2]

for ATP

for installer

[GiacGti]

this is truly a piece of garbage kit. just in part 2 alone there were SO many issues...and if you guys weren't such an experienced shop with fabrication abilities and know-how, the installer would have had his head spinning.

nice write up.

poor product.

[crewdwg16]

Quote, originally posted by zemun2 »

for ATP for installer

good stuff i need to get some braided lines for my atp kit i got parker push lock hose! DOH im cheap

[Pap337]

I hope ATP is taking notes.

[zemun2]

Quote, originally posted by Pap337 »

I hope ATP is taking notes.

You think ATP gives a ****..

[bobqzzi]

Awesome job Mike. Thanks for doing this- it not only provides a nice how to for this particular application, but shows the type of things that are required to install any turbo kit.

One quick thought- the banjo fittings ATP uses for are sometimes a pain (as you point out). They also sell a straight adapter fitting (14/16?mm to -6) which screws right into the turbo. It is much more compact and easier to tighten in close quarters.

Of course, you'd use a copper washer, not a rubber one


Modified by bobqzzi at 10:05 PM 9-5-2006

[Shad]

That unused hole actually is were you bolt the support brace, that's also bolted to the tranny mount. Don't know why it was missing on that car.

[TyrolSport]

Quote, originally posted by Shad »

That unused hole actually is were you bolt the support brace, that's also bolted to the tranny mount. Don't know why it was missing on that car.

Incorrect. The support brace is intact and mounted further forward and towards the outside of the vehicle in question. The support brace can be seen underneath the shifter cable pictures.


Modified by tyrolkid at 10:07 PM 9-5-2006

[evilpat]

Quote, originally posted by bobqzzi »

Awesome job Mike. Thanks for doing this- it not only provides a nice how to for this particular application, but shows the type of things that are required to install any turbo kit. One quick thought- the banjo fittings ATP uses for are sometimes a pain (as you point out). They also sell a straight adapter fitting (14/16?mm to -6) which screws right into the turbo. It is much more compact and easier to tighten in close quarters. Of course, you'd use a copper washer, not a rubber one Modified by bobqzzi at 10:05 PM 9-5-2006

Those with some hard lines NEVER leaked on my old GEN II kit

Nice write up Mike, ATP should be paying you for all the work needed to install this kit!

[under boost]

nice write up mike...

why fab something up on the feed line, instead of just using a 45* and attach the line to it? then you could have used the vac port off the comp housing too...

[briang]

Thanks for the two write ups, Mike.

I now realize that the amount of tools, miscellaneous parts, fabrication, time, money and patience exceeds my budget of cash and patience.

You have saved me a huge heartache and head ache.

I'm saving instead for an APR Stage 3.

[staysixsixsixkid]

im so freaking glad im not the only one who had that shifter cable problem ... to bad i dont have the luxury of being able to make a new bracket by myself .. and atp sucks they said they would have that made for me a month ago, this kit is a nightmare worste thing i have ever bought

[Hassenpfeffer]

A big to you Tyrol for all your modding of so called bolt ons
ATP is for the birds . I'm sorry to say.
I gather.........Eliminator must mean the elimination of any patients one must have left!

[golf2 1.8t]

Damn man! I thought something like this, but it is more worse I ever thought!
Nothing really fits.
I planned to do this on a 225 hp K04. I hoped I could to all this in one day. I have all your tools, too. But in one day it would be impossile. I hope on the 225hp it would be more easy. Anyone done this before?

[TyrolSport]

Quote, originally posted by bobqzzi »

Awesome job Mike. Thanks for doing this- it not only provides a nice how to for this particular application, but shows the type of things that are required to install any turbo kit. One quick thought- the banjo fittings ATP uses for are sometimes a pain (as you point out). They also sell a straight adapter fitting (14/16?mm to -6) which screws right into the turbo. It is much more compact and easier to tighten in close quarters. Of course, you'd use a copper washer, not a rubber one Modified by bobqzzi at 10:05 PM 9-5-2006

Excellent idea which we did not think of, Bob. If the banjos don't hold up to track abuse, we can switch over later.

[TyrolSport]

As an additional note: The hardline fabrication for the coolant line would not be necessary if the coolant line was run towards the bottom of the turbo. We elected to run it towards the top. Running it towards the bottom will save some time and fabrication.

[myk3]

can i bolt all lines to the turbo and then drop it in?? (im going to drop the axel for more room). or am i going to have to attach some of the lines once the turbo is in place?

[Don R]

Great write-up Mike. This should be considered for a sticky.

[enginerd]

wow this is pretty unbelieveable.

Mike are you using some odd parts that make it so nothing fits? Or is this a pretty standard install?

Seems like a well thought out completely custom install would have less fabrication work involved.

You got a part ## for those sweet s4 nuts

[SnowGTI2003]

Quote, originally posted by enginerd »

You got a part ## for those sweet s4 nuts

Ditto. I'd like to know how I can get a set.

[under boost]

Quote, originally posted by tyrolkid »

As an additional note: The hardline fabrication for the coolant line would not be necessary if the coolant line was run towards the bottom of the turbo. We elected to run it towards the top. Running it towards the bottom will save some time and fabrication.

it appears with running the coolant line to the bottom, you would need to run yet another fitting to run it along the block, or you'd be tickling the downpipe.

and whats up with the S4 nuts? they hardened steel of something?

[KrautFed]

Mike, we ran the coolant over top like you did. However we angled the lines (coolant feed & oil feed) so that we could get to both + inlet boost source.

coolant -> \/ <-oil