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    Thread: Retrofitting Dual Xenon Headlamps [TOC, Photos done]

    1. Member tynee's Avatar
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      01-27-2011 08:37 PM #36
      Would it be possible to switch the projector housings with aftermarket units that have halos?
      I'd like to use these if possible, I obviously need to mount the extra power units, what else do I need to consider?

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    2. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      01-27-2011 11:02 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by tynee View Post
      Would it be possible to switch the projector housings with aftermarket units that have halos?
      Oh Lord, please don't consider going down that route - you will wind up with lighting that is absolutely non-compliant with FMVSS (safety standards).

      If you were to do that in Europe, the car would be pulled off the road.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    3. Member tynee's Avatar
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      01-28-2011 01:16 AM #38
      Yeah, I know. I hate the cars I see that have aftermarket lights that blind all oncoming traffic, and that's why I asked. I would really like to have halo rings as my DRL's, like the BMW's, and burn the HID's only at night. Since I'm going to do the headlight retrofit anyways, I figured I'd ask how complicated it would be to do correctly and keep the beams in line with the safety standard. I don't want to be the guy that looks like I have my brights on all the time. Unfortunately The new LED lights seem to have a hard time syncing with an 04 model, so I'm trying a different route.

    4. Junior Member Sarmale89's Avatar
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      01-31-2011 11:13 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
      Attached is a document that partially explains how to adjust Phaeton headlights. When you install new headlights, 'basic settings' need to be performed to the motors that automatically adjust the elevation of the low beam light in response to changes in the suspension loading of the car. To complete this 'basic settings' function, you need to have a diagnostic scan tool such as a VAS 5052 or a VAG-COM. Instructions for completing the 'basic settings' are provided by prompts on the VAS 5052. If anyone needs detailed instructions for doing this with a VAG-COM, let me know and I will write the instructions up.

      Michael

      Michael,

      I am planning on doing my dual xenon retrofit sometime this week. Would you mind going over how perform the settings adjustment with a VAG-COM? I just got my VAG-COM last week and would appreciate the tutorial.

      Bobby

    5. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-01-2011 10:26 AM #40
      Bobby:

      I would like to help, but I am out of the country right now (in the Seychelles, which is on the opposite side of the world to North America) and I will be working every day from now to Feb 12 training pilots.

      I will do my best to try and dig up some information that I can post in text format, but I won't be available for back-and-forth text conversation until I get back to Canada, which is foreseen for about mid-February.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    6. Junior Member Sarmale89's Avatar
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      02-01-2011 10:50 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
      Bobby:

      I would like to help, but I am out of the country right now (in the Seychelles, which is on the opposite side of the world to North America) and I will be working every day from now to Feb 12 training pilots.

      I will do my best to try and dig up some information that I can post in text format, but I won't be available for back-and-forth text conversation until I get back to Canada, which is foreseen for about mid-February.

      Michael
      Michael:

      Thanks for the response and for your willingness to share your expertise. I'll see what I can figure out on my own. If I can't figure it out, I'll just have my dealer do the basic coding when they align the headlamps.

      Bobby

    7. Moderator Prince Ludwig's Avatar
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      02-01-2011 11:53 AM #42
      Hi Bobby,

      You might as well have it done by the dealer since your headlamps will have been set up for the UK so will probably need to be aligned anyway.

      Harry

    8. Junior Member Sarmale89's Avatar
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      02-01-2011 11:54 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Prince Ludwig View Post
      Hi Bobby,

      You might as well have it done by the dealer since your headlamps will have been set up for the UK so will probably need to be aligned anyway.

      Harry
      Will do. thanks.

      Bobby

    9. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-01-2011 04:35 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Prince Ludwig View Post
      ...your headlamps will have been set up for the UK so will probably need to be aligned anyway.
      WHAT??? You have installed UK spec headlights on a North American car? That is NOT going to work. The European spec headlights (both left or right hand drive) have a beam pattern that provides about a 15 degree uptick towards the curb side of the car. If you put RHD headlights on a LHD car, that uptick is going to go towards the eyes of the oncoming driver, not towards the curbside.

      This cannot be corrected by headlight alignment. The internal construction of the headlights is very different between RHD and LHD cars. The headlight casings are welded shut, I don't think it would be possible to modify the internal design of the headlights even if you had a very well equipped machine shop and considerable expertise in tool-making.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    10. Junior Member Sarmale89's Avatar
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      02-01-2011 04:45 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
      WHAT??? You have installed UK spec headlights on a North American car? That is NOT going to work. The European spec headlights (both left or right hand drive) have a beam pattern that provides about a 15 degree uptick towards the curb side of the car. If you put RHD headlights on a LHD car, that uptick is going to go towards the eyes of the oncoming driver, not towards the curbside.

      This cannot be corrected by headlight alignment. The internal construction of the headlights is very different between RHD and LHD cars. The headlight casings are welded shut, I don't think it would be possible to modify the internal design of the headlights even if you had a very well equipped machine shop and considerable expertise in tool-making.

      Michael
      Michael,

      No, I am NOT installing RHD headlamps "as is" on my NAR Phaeton. As demonstrated by Harry and as stated in my post (linked below), I will be swapping out the beam cutouts so that the beam pattern conforms to U.S. regulations.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post69571956

      I will be removing my NAR headlamps tonight and making the cutout swap.

      Bobby

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      02-01-2011 11:09 PM #46
      Ah - OK, sorry, I have not been following the post that closely - I did not realize you were doing that.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    12. Junior Member Sarmale89's Avatar
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      02-10-2011 02:41 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
      Bobby:

      I would like to help, but I am out of the country right now (in the Seychelles, which is on the opposite side of the world to North America) and I will be working every day from now to Feb 12 training pilots.

      I will do my best to try and dig up some information that I can post in text format, but I won't be available for back-and-forth text conversation until I get back to Canada, which is foreseen for about mid-February.

      Michael
      Michael,

      Is the procedure for coding the dual xenons in the VW Repair Manual? I seem to recall seeing something in there about this. If so, is the procedure the same on the VAG-COM or is it a different animal? I'd like to do this part myself as I already have the VAG-COM and may as well use it. Also, if the dealer has to clear fault codes, code the headlamps, AND align them then they'll charge me (as they well should). My service adviser indicated to me a few weeks ago, after my telling him about my dual xenon retrofit project, that I could just bring my car in anytime to have them align the headlamps free of charge.

      Bobby

    13. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      02-11-2011 03:19 AM #48
      Bobby:

      The dual xenon headlights don't have to be "coded" per se, because when you install the two headlight assemblies, you also install new controllers for the high beams at the same time. The low beam controllers on dual xenon headlights are the same as the low beam controllers on single xenon headlights In a dual xenon installation, these controllers don't interact with the car any differently than single xenon installation. It is actually the same controller for the low beam circuit - and the only interaction with other systems that involves that controller is watching the suspension system to see how the car is sitting, for the purpose of keeping the low beam lights correctly positioned in the vertical range of movement.

      There is a "basic settings" or "adaptation" script (I'm not sure which) that is invoked when you align the headlights. I carried this work out using the VAS 5052 diagnostic scan tool at my VW dealer, and using the Hella Beamsetter (headlight alignment tool) at my VW dealer. I used the "guided functions" capability of the VAS 5052 to put the headlights into the alignment mode - this whole process is well explained in the VW service manual documentation and in the guided functions portion of the VAS 5052.

      Once the alignment is complete - and the alignment itself is accomplished manually, using adjustment screws on the headlights - the two low beam controllers are then set back to normal operations mode. The whole low beam alignment process is identical to what is done with Phaetons that have only single xenon headlights. Alignment of the high beams (xenon or halogen, doesn't matter) is strictly a manual process, like it would be on any 1960s car with four headlights.

      You can probably invoke the alignment setting using a VAG-COM, but I didn't bother even looking into how to do that, because although I have a VAG-COM, I don't have a Hella Beamsetter... so, I had to go to the dealership to use the Beamsetter, and it was much easier for me to just use the VAS 5052, complete with guided functions.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    14. Junior Member Sarmale89's Avatar
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      02-11-2011 09:04 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by PanEuropean View Post
      Bobby:

      The dual xenon headlights don't have to be "coded" per se, because when you install the two headlight assemblies, you also install new controllers for the high beams at the same time. The low beam controllers on dual xenon headlights are the same as the low beam controllers on single xenon headlights In a dual xenon installation, these controllers don't interact with the car any differently than single xenon installation. It is actually the same controller for the low beam circuit - and the only interaction with other systems that involves that controller is watching the suspension system to see how the car is sitting, for the purpose of keeping the low beam lights correctly positioned in the vertical range of movement.

      There is a "basic settings" or "adaptation" script (I'm not sure which) that is invoked when you align the headlights. I carried this work out using the VAS 5052 diagnostic scan tool at my VW dealer, and using the Hella Beamsetter (headlight alignment tool) at my VW dealer. I used the "guided functions" capability of the VAS 5052 to put the headlights into the alignment mode - this whole process is well explained in the VW service manual documentation and in the guided functions portion of the VAS 5052.

      Once the alignment is complete - and the alignment itself is accomplished manually, using adjustment screws on the headlights - the two low beam controllers are then set back to normal operations mode. The whole low beam alignment process is identical to what is done with Phaetons that have only single xenon headlights. Alignment of the high beams (xenon or halogen, doesn't matter) is strictly a manual process, like it would be on any 1960s car with four headlights.

      You can probably invoke the alignment setting using a VAG-COM, but I didn't bother even looking into how to do that, because although I have a VAG-COM, I don't have a Hella Beamsetter... so, I had to go to the dealership to use the Beamsetter, and it was much easier for me to just use the VAS 5052, complete with guided functions.

      Michael
      Michael,

      Thanks for the explanation. I'm taking my Phaeton in this morning to have them align the headlights and won't worry about trying to do anything with my VAG-COM.

      Bobby

    15. Member EnglishPhaeton's Avatar
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      07-01-2011 04:16 AM #50
      Michael,

      early on in this thread you point out that you can pull the washer nozzle cover open and it locks in place, true, but how do you then close it? Mine is now just flapping around when previously all was well

      Cheers
      Stu

    16. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      07-01-2011 09:59 PM #51
      Hi Stu:

      If you put the headlight washer nozzles in the service position by using the appropriate command available from the Front Display Screen, the nozzle doors will be about 85% of the way open (they will be 'fully open' in the sense that that is as far as they ever open during normal operations).

      You can then take hold of the nozzle door and move it forward about another 1 cm (3/8 of an inch) and it will mechanically 'latch' in the fully open position. It rides over a small cam when it does this.

      But... if there is any degradation in the mechanism that normally drives the door to the fully closed position when the nozzle is extended, then it probably won't lock in the fully extended position.

      In the photo below, the red arrow points at a U-shaped assembly that provides the spring force needed to return the door to the closed position, or, if you pull the door fully open, the force that is needed to hold it in the fully open position. Click on the image to enlarge it.

      Michael

      Headlight Washer Door.jpg
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    17. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 09:44 PM #52
      Archival Note:

      Another post describing dual xenon retrofit, but with greater detail about the construction of the headlight assemblies: My Dual Xenon Adventure.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    18. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      04-10-2012 05:24 PM #53
      Photos re-hosted.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    19. Member wouterjansen60's Avatar
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      04-17-2012 01:30 AM #54
      Michael,

      Reading over your wonderfull extensive thread including photo's and based on my job to renew my both dead controllers due to use of bad quality 8000k xenons, i just have a question. As i destroyed both my controllers using these 8000k xenons I had to renew both lower beam ballasts/controllers.

      The lower beam controllers in my 2007 V6 TDI dual Xenon however were located on the side (behind the adjustment extension), not on extended back part as we should expect and as showed on the first picture. Perhaps there is a difference between ROW and NAR?

      3D0907391 seems the right version for lower beam , 4 pins or 12 pins version (depending year of built). These controllers are very sensitive for non OEM Xenons, and very expensive.


      Wouter

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      04-17-2012 07:18 AM #55
      Hello Wouter:

      Dual xenon headlamps were never offered in NAR. I purchased the ones I installed in my car in Europe, prior to 2007.

      It is possible that the headlamp assembly went through a change of design between 2003-2006 and 2007. The headlamps I purchased likely came from a MY 2003, 04, or 05 car.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    21. 05-05-2012 05:28 PM #56
      I wanna change my low beam xenon bulbs with Osram d1s 66144CBI Cool blue intense Xenarc 5000k... i wanna know if they will work whith my low beam controler because the oem osram instaled are 4150k ... or will give me some problem... i must change the low beam bulbs because they are flickering ?

      Regards!

    22. Member tynee's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 05:36 PM #57
      I hope they work, because i have a set of four to install with the quad projector retrofit!
      Cheers,
      Andrew

    23. 05-05-2012 05:59 PM #58
      I don't know what to buy ...i must change the low beam bulbs because are flickering.

      1- the oem osram 4150k
      2- osram 5000k 66144CBI Cool blue intense
      3- philips 6000k 002208WX
      4 -philips 6000k Ultra Blue 85410

      all bulbs are D1S model, any suggestion .

      Thanks!

    24. Member wouterjansen60's Avatar
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      05-05-2012 11:45 PM #59
      D1S 6000k is a real nice white color, which really suits the Pheaton in appearance. Standard OEM xenons are color 4300k (a boring yellow) color) or 5000k, and these OEM's seems well adapted to the Phaetons lowbeam ballast/controller 3D0909157/158. Other xenons might damage the ballast and the aint cheap, 500 Euro each.. And i know :-(. These ballast seems very sensitive for cheap Chinese xenons, so be prepared. Dont use 30 euro xenons.

      Wouter

    25. 05-06-2012 03:49 AM #60
      For 6000k i found Philips 002208 WX aka "Ultinon", or Philips Ultra blue 85410UB.... the philips 002208WX ultinon are not road legal "not for use in EUROPE/USA." but who cares

    26. 05-06-2012 03:51 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by ADRIAN0 View Post
      For 6000k i found Philips 002208 WX aka "Ultinon", or Philips Ultra blue 85410UB.... the philips 002208WX ultinon are not road legal "not for use in EUROPE/USA." but who cares
      Btw the both models have same price about 220 euro for 2 bulb's.

    27. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      10-19-2012 09:05 PM #62
      Archival Note: See also this very interesting illustrated description of the same project by another forum member - My Dual Xenon Adventure.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

    28. Member tynee's Avatar
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      12-02-2013 12:17 PM #63
      This last week I successfully installed both dual-HID projector headlamps, and used the Osram Cool Blue Intense lamps. Well, I didn't get one unit lined up correctly, so the dealer had to adjust the mounting nuts while doing the headlight alignment, but all is working now. Thanks everyone for all the info and photos, it really helped. Especially the part about swapping the beam cutouts, that must have been a bear doing it for the first time.

      I wonder how many USA Phaetons have the quad-HID setup now?
      Cheers,
      Andrew

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      03-16-2014 08:01 PM #64
      Finally had to remove the front bumper cover on my P for the first time during my timing belt replacement project. Thanks to Michael's detailed instructions it was a piece of cake.

      I did take a few photos during that project and to make it even easier for everyone using these instructions in the future, I want to add a few comments.

      Here's an overview of all the fasteners used on the front bumper cover including fastener type/size:



      Those friction fit fasteners located on the bottom center of the bumper cover look like they would be Phillips head screws but they are not. Below is a picture showing how those look like, that should make it easier to understand how it works:



      I found that the easiest way to remove those was with a tool that's similar to a screwdriver with a curved and split tip:





      Finally I have a question for Michael. I didn't quite understand the purpose of locking the headlight washer covers in the open position. Was that specific to the headlight replacement project? It seemed like those covers don't interfere with the bumper cover removal and installation even in the closed position.
      Stephan

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      04-03-2014 05:55 PM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by Phaetonlvr View Post
      ...I didn't quite understand the purpose of locking the headlight washer covers in the open position. Was that specific to the headlight replacement project? It seemed like those covers don't interfere with the bumper cover removal and installation even in the closed position.
      Hi Stephen:

      First of all, thanks very much for posting the pictures of the fasteners and the tips about fastener removal, that is really useful information.

      It's been many years since I took the front bumper cover off my car, thus I can't recall exactly why the little doors over the headlight washers need to be pulled open prior to bumper cover removal. I'm going to speculate that it might be necessary in order to disengage the washer door opening mechanism from the washer jets themselves. In other words, when the washer jets extend upwards to operate, they push against a cam on the little doors, opening the doors. It might be that if the bumper cover is removed and/or replaced with the doors closed, this cam mechanism might foul on the jets.

      But... that's just educated speculation, it's not a fact.

      Michael
      Please don't send me technical questions via IM - instead, post your questions onto the end of the most appropriate thread in the FAQ, so that everyone can benefit from the answer, and everyone can assist in providing the answer. Thanks, Michael

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