Retrofitting a Television Tuner

[PanEuropean]

There has been some discussion of this subject already on this thread Television Tuner - original Dresden installation in Phaeton, but because that discussion kind of veered off into discussion of aftermarket parts, I thought it would be a good idea to start a new thread about a retrofit of an OEM VW TV tuner in a Phaeton. I am now about halfway through retrofitting an OEM VW TV tuner to my North American Phaeton.

There are four components that need to be replaced or modified to do this job:

1) You need a ROW specification J523 Front Information Display and Control Head that has a button on it marked 'TV'.
2) You need a slightly different antenna controller for the rear window.
3) You need the TV Tuner itself
4) You need to run a wiring harness from the tuner to the J523 to supply the video signal.

I obtained and installed a ROW specification J523 in my NAR Phaeton. This was a pretty trouble-free and simple modification - just remove the NAR specification J523 and install the ROW specification one. Recoding will be needed, but that's not difficult to do, it can be accomplished with either a VAS 5052 or a VAG-COM, both of which provide guided prompts. The only downside of installing a ROW spec J523 in a North American car is that you lose most AM radio reception, due to the change to 9kHz channel spacing (the European standard) from 10 kHz channel spacing (the North American standard). More information about the J523 changeout can be found on this thread: Nav Acceptance Screen - discussion about disabling it or working around it.

I obtained an antenna amplifier (aerial amplifier) that was suitable for a car that has a TV tuner installed. There are quite a few variations of the antenna amplifier (part number 3D0 035 225), depending on whether the Phaeton has a parking heater (stand-heating), a TV tuner, or just a basic AM-FM radio. Full details can be found in the Phaeton parts catalog, section 0 (Extras), illustration 35-10. It is quite easy to remove the existing antenna amplifier and install the new one, although you do have to lower the rear part of the headliner to do this, which is a pain.

Fitting the TV tuner itself (part number 3D0 919 146 for the analog-only tuner) is quite simple. You just lower the cover of the electronics compartment below the hatshelf, and install the tuner - the fittings to hold it are already there.

I still need to obtain the additional wiring harness that conveys the TV signal from the tuner to the J523 and install that.

Below are a few photos that illustrate some of the components.

Michael

Antenna Control Module with TV Tuner function (PN suffix AJ or AT)

R78 TV Tuner (Controller 57)

[PanEuropean]

Here is a partial listing of what parts are needed. In the illustration below, you will find the tuner itself (item 15) and the associated brackets needed to hold it in place in the electronics compartment underneath the hatshelf.

TV Tuner Parts Catalog Pages

[PanEuropean]

Here is a detailed list of the different antenna amplifiers (aerials) that are available for the Phaeton. The one I am using is suffix AJ, suitable for a car with a TV tuner, but not with a remote controlled parking heater (stand-heating).

It is interesting to note that the rear window glass is the same on all Phaetons - every Phaeton rear window has the wires in it for the TV tuner antenna, the parking heater antenna, and so forth. If the Phaeton does not have a TV tuner or parking heater installed, then the antenna amplifier installed does not have provision to connect up to the TV antenna or parking heater antenna.

To upgrade, you just remove and replace the antenna amplifier. The plastic bracket that retains the antenna amplifier on the rear window is the same on all Phaetons.

Michael

Antenna Amplifier Parts Listing

[PanEuropean]

This picture shows the antenna amplifier (item number 10 in the illustration above) after it has been unclipped from the plastic part that holds it on the rear window glass (item number 11 in the illustration above). The amplifier itself is hanging down about one inch from its normal position.

Michael

Antenna Amplifier - partially dismounted

[GripperDon]

Here is a link to a Pheaton " designed for" Aux Video In system.

http://www.gnetcanada.com/navv...n.asp

[jmuoio]

Michael,

Thanks for posting this new thread. It was a good idea because it was getting to be a bit much sifting through all the afternmarket discussion to get to the OEM stuff. However, notice that the first post from someone other than you jumps immediately off topic, so you might want to move that post to somewhere else. I'm perplexed why someone would disregard your intention for this thread, but maybe it's a case of not reading your post.

Would you mind answering a bunch of questions?:

Why did you do the analog tuner and not the digital/HD tuner?
Did you get the J523 because of the button only, is the unit different internally, or could I get away with a software change and live with mislabeled buttons? (I'm guessing NO, but I have to ask)

I don't understand what you mean about the parking heater and antenna amplifier? Are you saying that I can replace the antenna amp for Digital TV and still get AM/FM, just with the 9khz interval?

Thanks again for all the information you post on here and would you keep us posted on this project?

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by jmuoio »

Why did you do the analog tuner and not the digital/HD tuner?

Because the wrecked Phaeton that I scarfed the tuner from was equipped with an analog tuner, not a digital one. See this post for more info: UK 2004 W12 spotted breaking for spares.

Quote, originally posted by jmuoio »

Did you get the J523 because of the button only, is the unit different internally, or could I get away with a software change and live with mislabeled buttons?

My guess was that I would need the ROW spec J523 to support selection of TV as a display source. Because I live in Canada and the wrecked car was in the UK, I figured it made sense to take the J523 along with me, because it would have been a PITA to have to go back to Birmingham again to get the part. I'm still not sure if a NAR spec J523 will support TV input or not - it might - but I wanted to have all the parts I needed to make the thing work on the first try.

Quote, originally posted by jmuoio »

I don't understand what you mean about the parking heater and antenna amplifier? Are you saying that I can replace the antenna amp for Digital TV and still get AM/FM, just with the 9khz interval?

You are referring to two entirely different subjects here. The FM frequency spacing (0.1 MHz gaps) and AM frequency spacing (9 kHz intervals) are a function of the J523, not of the antenna amplifier.

As for the antenna amplifier - the rear window has a zillion antenna wires embedded in it - FM, AM, GSM phone, TV, parking heater, keyless access. All rear windows everywhere in the world have these wires regardless of what the car is fitted with. However... there are a variety of different antenna amplifiers available, and what gets fitted to the car depends on what options the car has. There's no point in fitting a very expensive antenna amplifier that supports all the above-mentioned functions to a car that only has an AM-FM radio, as many of the NAR spec cars do.

For example, my NAR W12 has keyless access and AM-FM radio as factory fitment. So, my antenna amplifier supports these two functions. The car in the UK that I sourced the parts from had, additionally, a TV tuner, so it had a slightly more complex antenna amplifier that supported the TV tuner. It didn't have a parking heater, so, there is no support for the parking heater in the antenna amplifier that I scarfed from that car. With that information in mind, have a second look at the parts listing in the photo two posts above, and I think it will make more sense to you now.

I think it's just a way of keeping build costs down - why fit a $300 antenna amplifier to a car that only needs a $80 antenna amplifier?

BTW, the GSM phone and GPS antenna (for the nav system GPS and for the VW built-in phone, not OnStar) are contained in a different component that is on the other side of the rear window, also at the top. The analog phone antenna for OnStar and the GPS antenna for OnStar (OnStar has its own GPS system that is entirely separate from the navigation GPS in the Phaeton) are in the shark fin antenna on the roof.

There are more photos of the antenna amplifier, and a bit more of an explanation about how it works here: FM radio reception quality (antenna issues?).

Michael

[Itzmann]

Quote, originally posted by GripperDon »

Here is a link to a Pheaton " designed for" Aux Video In system. http://www.gnetcanada.com/navv...n.asp

Thanks for the link, I have contacted them to find out if they have an experienced dealer/installer in Florida.

[Itzmann]

Well, gnetcanada.com says they haven't had a Fl. dealer purchase their video module for Phaeton/Bentley; apparently, however, they have sold several in the CA market.

Too bad, b/c their solution looked pretty clean: by hitting the videoswitch button on a gnet-supplied remote, the display would switch to an external source; a couple more hits to the same button, and it would cycle back to normal Phaeton screen display.

They said any professional installer should be able to do it, but I'm not buying the guinea pig concept, especially as it entails opening the multifunction unit.

I doubt another source will open up later, but... hope does spring eternal.


Modified by Itzmann at 9:43 PM 10-25-2006

[Itzmann]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

I still need to obtain the additional wiring harness that conveys the TV signal from the tuner to the J523 and install that.

Hi Michael, were you able to obtain the wiring harness?

Looks like a great project!

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by Itzmann »

Hi Michael, were you able to obtain the wiring harness?

Do you mean this wiring harness? The one that had to be hand-made to match my exact VIN and option fitment, weighed over 18 pounds (most of it pure copper), and caused the Swiss Federal Police to pull my suitcase out of the X-ray machine at Zürich Airport on Monday, put it in a concrete bunker, then invite me to come and explain exactly what I had in it?

Yeah, I got the wiring harness... and I don't even dare think of the level of interior dis-assembly that is going to be needed to install it.

Michael

TV Tuner Wiring Harness

[FootSore]

Happy holiday season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Itzmann]

Oh boy.

Very best of luck with that!

[car_guy]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Do you mean this wiring harness? The one that had to be hand-made to match my exact VIN and option fitment, weighed over 18 pounds (most of it pure copper), and caused the Swiss Federal Police to pull my suitcase out of the X-ray machine at Zürich Airport on Monday, put it in a concrete bunker, then invite me to come and explain exactly what I had in it? Yeah, I got the wiring harness... and I don't even dare think of the level of interior dis-assembly that is going to be needed to install it. Michael

It would take me about 10 seconds to rationalize not installing that thing in my car. Like, "Uh, I don't even have a TV in my house!" (right Michael?), or "Gee, I can only watch when the car isn't moving." or, "I don't want to have to dismiss 17 lawyer screens to watch.". Anyone else have any good ones?

Now if you're a masochist, go right ahead and do it!

[M1LUM]

Now, that is a scary looking loom !

By any chance does it have a 4 pin plug for attaching to the rear AC controller on it?
(http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2501825)

Good luck !

[GripperDon]

I think I'll call them and see if I can get the Phone # of a dealer in CA or Palm Springs. Talk to them and see if they did a Phaeton. Notice no install photos on the Phaeton or bentley So that makes it harder for a DIY. Let you know.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by M1LUM »

By any chance does it have a 4 pin plug for attaching to the rear AC controller on it?

Hi Terry:

Jeez, I dunno - I have not even looked at it yet. My car has actually become a bit cranky over the summer while I was away - I have to replace a thermostat in the engine later this week (it is the part that the build the whole damn engine around), and that has been the focus of my attention since I got home.

Now that I am at home, I have taken my car apart to take pictures of the electrical connector that you are seeking for the retrofit of the rear climate control panel (E265). I have added information to this post: How to retrofit a rear climate control panel. I believe that if you provide this part number to your VW parts technician, he or she should be able to look it up in the parts catalog and find out exactly where it appears on the illustration of the big wiring harness.

Michael

[PanEuropean]

I have made a bit of progress on the TV tuner retrofit. This modification is not for the faint of heart. Installing the tuner takes 10 minutes - it fits under the hatshelf along with all the other avionics. The difficult part is installing the wiring harness, which has to run from the tuner up to the J523 in the front (with a couple of little branches leading off to the antenna on the rear window glass, and one wire to the fusepanel under the steering wheel).

Here's some photos of what got accomplished today... After 10 hours, I am about 40% of the way through.

Michael

You need a big, wide workspace - all the seats have to come out

Ask me how I got to the underside of the roof...

The new and old antenna controllers (longer one has TV capability)

Sorting out wiring harnesses

[W126C]

Man I wish I was there. Looks like fun to me.
Did you take the front seats out through the rear doors?
Keep posting those pictures.
Regards,
Brent

[pirateat50]

You are indeed a brave man, Mr. Moore.

[OEMplus.com]

Kudos to you Michael!

Did you make me a sample harness so I can have them manufactured for the other owners?

[uberanalyst]

Michael:

I'm in awe of the project you've undertaken, with the amount of effort required to acquire the correct wiring harness, take your car apart, etc.

But I'm curious how long you think you'll be able to watch analog TV transmissions. In the US, the transition to all-digital ATSC broadcasting will REQUIRE every US TV station to stop broadcasting an NTSC analog signal by February of 2009. (The US Congress has already budgeted (i.e. "spent") the revenue it expects to generate from government auction of the spectrum used by today's analog TV stations. All stations will have to return their analog spectrum to the US government in 2009, since each station has already been given free new spectrum for digital ATSC broadcast).

At a minimum, this means you won't be able to use your new tuner when driving in the US, but I don't know what plans Canada has for transition to digital or high-def broadcasting. Is Canada planning on following the US migration to digital broadcasting?

At least you didn't bother installing an analog/digital tuner, since I doubt any of the Phaeton tuners support the North American ATSC digital standard.

- Dave

[uberanalyst]

Out of curiosity, I tried to answer my own question about Canadian analog broadcasting. Here's what I found:

Canada decided to let the market forces dictate the transition
- 24 out of 723 analog TV stations in Canada (3%) have been authorized to broadcast digital. 11 are in operation
- Canada does not have a fixed date for DTV roll-out
- Canada has not issued a cut-off date for licensing analog TV

So good news, it looks like you're going to be able to receive analog TV broadcasts for quite some time, as long as you stay north of the US border.

- Dave

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by OEMpl.us »

Did you make me a sample harness so I can have them manufactured for the other owners?

Rich:

Trust me on this one: No-one, and I mean NO-ONE, is going to want to undertake this modification once I get the writeup done and begin to describe the scope of work.

I have now put in two 12 hour days at my VW dealership, and I am still not finished. I estimate I have another 6 hours of work to do. Here's how the work breaks out:

a) Install TV tuner in appropriate position in rear avionics area - 10 minutes
b) Replace NAR spec J523 with ROW spec J523 - 30 minutes
c) Replace AM/FM antenna controller with AM/FM/TV antenna controller - 20 minutes
c) Run wiring harness (about a dozen specialty wires) between TV tuner and J523 - 10 minutes
d) Disassemble car completely to get access to where the wiring harness has to go - 12 hours
e) Remove roof headliner to get access to antenna controller - 4 hours
f) Re-install roof headliner, C pillar covers, etc. - 2 hours
g) Try the best you can to clean scuffs and greasy fingerprints off of the roof headliner and C pillar covers - 3 hours, not including going shopping for specialty chemicals such as dry cleaning fluid.
h) Put minor bits and pieces - such as carpets, seats, center console, entire steering wheel and dashboard back in car - 10 hours
i) Clean dirt and grease off above-mentioned bits - another 2 hours.
k) Re-adapt everything in the car because the batteries have been disconnected for two days - 1 hour
l) Get quote from body shop to repair scratch in door aperture that resulted from trying to remove rear seatback with headrests extended - 30 minutes.

As for parts costs - I scavenged the ROW J523 and the R78 TV Tuner from a wrecked Phaeton, and some very kind folks gave me a complete Phaeton wiring harness with TV tuner wires as a Christmas present (hand-made to my VIN - not available off the shelf), so my parts costs have been fairly low, but if someone wanted to buy the required parts, here's how it would break out:

1) ROW J528 - about USD $3,500.-
2) R78 Analogue TV Tuner - about USD 1,400.-
3) Custom-made to VIN main wiring harness - about USD $4,000.-

So, forget about it. I'll eventually get this mod written up, but it will just be 'for the record' and for general interest - if anyone really, really wants a TV in their Phaeton, get the nice folks in Dresden to build you a new NAR spec Phaeton with either a V8 or W12 (the two engines that have NAR emissions approval) and ask them to give it a 2006 VIN - then import it to NAR. That would be far, far less expensive, not to mention less troublesome.

Michael

[12dunlin]

Hmmm. Shame.

I'm thinking to get a video-aux-in unit and fit a Digital Tuner in the glove box! (Maybe even a little laptop/PC)

[GripperDon]

I use the VAio Sony Laptop mounted on my custom glove box holder, With a Sprint card My wife the "Great Grippee" can watch DVD's surf the net and the sound is via the X3 Aux in comes thru the full sound system. NO AUX in tuner required The screen is also much larger and you can have a DVD bases Nav system if you want. No fuss, Much less money, use the unit away from the car ( fold it up and get on the plane and pick up on the movie where you left off ) In our case the houseboat not the plane)


Modified by GripperDon at 12:25 PM 2-8-2007

[OEMplus.com]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Trust me on this one: No-one, and I mean NO-ONE, is going to want to undertake this modification once I get the writeup done and begin to describe the scope of work.

Sorry, I forgot to put a on the end of my question. I agree that there is NO WAY anyone would (or could) replicate this...

Again, you're either insane or genius for doing this. Thanks again for sharing your experience!

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by OEMpl.us »

...you're either insane or genius for doing this.

Neither one, I hope. I just did it because it was possible to do it, that's all. I thought it might be a challenge - and it sure was...

Anyway, it's working now (much to my surprise). I finished hooking up the wire bundles from the tuner to the 32 pin connector on the back of the J523. This was quite easy to do, because there is a wiring diagram stuck right on the back of the J523. I then ran the red power cable to fuse 9 in the front fuse panel (under the steering wheel). I didn't hook up the comfort CAN bus wires at the front of the car (although I did run the wires), instead, I hooked them up at the main connection points as specified in the CAN bus wiring diagram.

Then, I changed the coding on controller 07 (the J523) to indicate that a TV tuner was installed (0500305 to 0500315), recycled the car a few times to let the new controller get recognized (the TV tuner shows up as controller 57), set the broadcast standard to NTSC, and it worked. Pictures are below.

I'll do a full writeup for the archive later on.

Michael

Patching in the wires from the TV Tuner

Setting the broadcast standard
(this can also be done with a scan tool via controller 57 coding)

Picture then appears
(It looks better than this, as you can see from the button labels, this picture is a bit blurry)

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by M1LUM »

By any chance does it have a 4 pin plug for attaching to the rear AC controller on it?

Hi Terry:

Now that I am finished the work, I will have a look at what is leftover and see if I can get you that pigtail for the rear climate control. I have two spare Phaeton wiring harnesses ('spinal cords') now.

Michael

[W126C]

Wow, just wow.
Again I wish I could have been there.

Regards,
Brent

[dcowan699]

Michael, you amaze me. I'll never complain about doing a root canal on a 3rd molar ever again

I don't even know if you should spend the time writing up a post on this mod as those pictures are worth 20000 words!!!

However, I know you well enough to know that you will write it up anyway. Title the article: "I Want My Phaeton TV"

[M1LUM]

Michael

Thanks for thinking of me in the middle of that project!

I would also appreciate a quick tip, following your experience of a couple of minor steps along the way.
• Sounds like you had a learning experience with removing the rear seat back !
• What is, in your considered opinion, the best way of splicing into the CAN bus?

Absolutely incredible attention to detail, as always. Well done

Terry

[Itzmann]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Picture then appears (It looks better than this, as you can see from the button labels, this picture is a bit blurry)

This is an interesting picture.

It looks as if the image has not been distorted (i.e., widened). This is rather curious, as standard NTSC fare in NA is squarish (4:3 proportions), whereas the screen on the Phaeton is widescreenish (16:9 proportions).

99% of widescreen monitor/tuners out there will stretch the square old-style NTSC TV signal in order to fill the screen, making people look fat and circles look as ovals. Many people do not realize their widescreen TV electronics often can reduce this distortion by either zooming into the picture to fill-in the sides or by keeping the center of the image undistorted and progressively stretching the edges of the images ---which can be disoriented b/c it can look as if you are watching from inside a fishbowl.

So it would be interesting to know if the P is using any of this electronic wizadry, or if the image is in fact stretched, but masked in this picture by the camera angle.

Michael, that was an amazing job.


Modified by PanEuropean at 8:05 PM 3-31-2008

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by M1LUM »

• Sounds like you had a learning experience with removing the rear seat back...

Hi Terry:

Yes, from a mechanical point of view, removing the rear seat backrest was probably the most difficult task in the whole process. The NAR Phaetons are coded such that the rear seat headrests lift up when the corresponding rear door is opened. This is to allow a child seat tether strap to be passed underneath the headrest to the upper anchor point on the hat-shelf that is provided on the NAR cars. I forgot to pull fuse 85 up at the front fuse panel before opening the rear doors, as a result, both headrests were up when the rear seat-back was removed - making it very difficult to get the seat out of the car. There is more info about this issue at this post: Automatic Movement of Rear Seat Headrest.

Removing and installing the rear seat backrest (and the rear seat lower cushion, for that matter) is a two-person job, and there is definitely a 'trick' to both un-latching and re-latching these two different pieces onto their retaining hooks. It took a while to learn the trick. Next time I get to Dresden, I will try to take some pictures of the experienced craftspeople at the factory installing these parts, so that we have a better 'how-to' guide for future reference.

Quote, originally posted by M1LUM »

• What is, in your considered opinion, the best way of splicing into the CAN bus?

Well, strictly speaking, it's very easy to do - the CAN bus wires are just twisted pairs, so all you have to do is splice a couple of wires together. However - one thing I have learned about the Phaeton is that it is critical that you follow the wiring diagrams exactly, right to the centimeter, when adding services. In the case of the CAN bus, even though the CAN bus is basically nothing more than a star-pattern two wire network (see this diagram: Controller Area Network (CAN) topology), following the wiring diagrams exactly means identifying the exact same junction point that VW uses in their wiring harness when you add a new controller. It's easy to find the junction point on the wiring diagram - in the case of the TV tuner, this controller (controller 57, component R78) connects at junction points B423 and B417. You can see this by looking at tracks 4 and 5 of the attached wiring diagram.

The difficult part is physically locating B423 and B417. Often, these junction points are actually inside the wiring bundle, not visible to the eye. In my case, I could see that the TV tuner made a 'T' junction into the Infotainment CAN bus somewhere between the Telematics (Telephone) controller and the main wiring harness. So, I located the existing CAN bus twisted pair coming from the telematics controller, and spliced into it just before it disappeared into the main wiring harness (the spinal cord, so to speak) of the car.

Working with the CAN bus is not difficult, as long as you remember that there are three different CAN buses (Drivetrain, Comfort, and Infotainment), and you make sure you are splicing into the correct one. Fortunately, the colour codes of the wires for the three different busses are different, and the colour codes are consistent throughout the vehicle for each bus. Polarity is critical and must be respected, but again, the wire colour codes make this easy to follow.

Michael

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by Itzmann »

It looks as if the image has not been distorted (i.e., widened). This is rather curious, as standard NTSC fare in NA is squarish (4:3 proportions), whereas the screen on the Phaeton is widescreenish (16:9 proportions)... So it would be interesting to know if the P is using any of this electronic wizardry, or if the image is in fact stretched, but masked in this picture by the camera angle.

I suspect that the Phaeton crops the top and bottom of the picture when the driver selects 16:9 (full screen) as the display mode, rather than 4:3. The car is smart enough to always display NTSC signals in 4:3 mode when you first select a channel, because 4:3 is the native mode. However, the driver does have an option (via a soft-key) to choose 16:9. I have attached a picture below showing this - note the upper right corner of the screen.

Michael

TV Tuner Configuration page (first of two pages)
The second of the two pages is shown above - with the broadcast standards menu.