everybody else do the same
Quote, originally posted by mrstlouis7 » How do you release the tension on the T-belt when removing it? Or do you just unbolt the tensioner?
I removed the small pulley that is on the tensioner first, then took off the belt.
PS - Great write up. I did this a few weeks ago
I have a dead (well, runs at idle, I believe it has a separated impeller) car right now and im in the philly area. I have a friend who's more then capable of doing this, but was looking at having it done at a shop. I live in willow grove (just north of northeast philly) area. Anyone have any recommendations? I bought my car from Colonial VW at Street / Bustleton but they've been nothing but hacks on my car, don't really trust them with a job like this and want $1k to do the job.
Anyone have any good experience with specific dealers/people around here? I have some codes on my Vag-com I wanted the dealer to look at (ABS, airbag, etc) so a dealer would be cool, but who can u trust these days!
I just completed my GT28RS upgrade and this happens, bahhhh humbug!
I believe I have either a bad water pump, or bad thermostat. Either will basically require me to do the timing belt, which is way over due anyway. I bought the parts several months ago from ECS, but have been a little reluctant to do it myself until now, the issue is forced. I have access to a shop that I can do the work, along with some guidance from the people who run the auto hobby shop, but they aren't VW experts by any means. Before I get started, I still have a few questions.
1) The bently manual tells me to take out the passenger headlight. Why do they do this? Is it simply to get the stock intercooler and hoses out, which they say to remove.
2) Back to number 1, is there any real reason to remove the intercooler and hoses from the turbo to the throttle body?
Modified by tamorgen at 8:11 AM 12-26-2007
1. No real need to remove the headlight. It might give you some more space to work with, but I, and most other people on here, did fine without removing it.
You can remove the headlight and the front bumper, but I think it is unnecessary.
2. The only hose you will need to remove is the pancake pipe, which is located in the passenger wheel well. This does connect the turbo and the manifold and needs to be removed to gain access to the timing belt. You will remove the pancake pipe and the wheel well plastic to get to the belt.
Quote, originally posted by StoicDude »
Problem is putting it on, not taking it off.
Its no problem....just a simple thing
Just put it half on the lower pully, half on the camshaft pully
Now you can mount the tensioner pully hex a few turns and carfull slide the belt on.
Sorry for my english
Okay, that's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure. It seems like the Bentley goes overboard sometimes.
One other thing, does anyone have a photo or diagram of where the lower mark is? I see in the Bentley and the pictures where TDC is, but numerous posts refer to the another alignment mark, and I haven't been able to find that in the Bentley, nor the posts.
Sorry to ask the stupid questions, but I don't want to have to pay $3000 to have the engine rebuilt for my mistake. I'm a little apprehensive about this thing, so I want to make sure everything is crystal clear before I start.
Here is the upper timing belt mark (camchain):
Here is the lower (transmission). This one is a bit harder to spot, so you will have to on top of your transmission and find a black plug. Take this out to expose the hole with the mark.
Thanks to PhilW for the photos.
To line them up, turn your crankshaft with a wrench until you get close to aligning the upper marks. When you get close, move it very slowly and check the TDC on the transmission.
Oh, I didn't understand that the second one was the transmission. I thought that they were both cams on the timing belt. So, they should both align at this same time, is that how I understand it? So, when I put the belt back on, I'll turn the cam twice, and when I hit TDC on the camchain, the transmission should hit TDC as well?
All is beginning to make sense. Thanks for the clearer pictures. Pictures are worth 1000 words in this case.
Quote, originally posted by tamorgen » Oh, I didn't understand that the second one was the transmission. I thought that they were both cams on the timing belt. So, they should both align at this same time, is that how I understand it? So, when I put the belt back on, I'll turn the cam twice, and when I hit TDC on the camchain, the transmission should hit TDC as well?
If you have any other questions, post it up.
Day one of the Timing Belt change:
Well, I got to the garage at 8:00 to let the engine cool down. They opened at 9. By the time I got my car into the bay, up on jacks, it was 9:30.
The walkthrough helped quite a bit, but I'd have to say some was in a different order than I think it should have been done. For instance, I had to remove the coolant resevoir and put the power steering resevoir aside (step 9), before I could begin work on the harmonic balancer pulley (step 7), because I needed to remove the motor mount. (step 10 & 11).
The other thing I found out, that I wasn't completely clear going into this, either from the DIY or the Bentley, was the removal of the engine mount attached to the engine block. What a pain in the a! To top it all off, the Bentley had the same illustration on how to remove the first engine mount (frame side) listed twice, so they didn't illustrate properly on how to remove it. I think I spent an hour and a half to two hours trying to remove that, along with the rubber hose that attaches to the pancake pipe, so I could swing the mount out. Personally I think whoever at VW designed that setup should have to go out and service everyones timing belt.
After that, everything went pretty smoothly. I believe I found out the root of my problem with the engine overheating, and that was the thermostat. I really thought it was going to be the pump, but it was in good shape.
The only real issue I ran into today was the lack of an alternator clutch tool to remove the the pulley from the alternator, so I could install the ECS Underdrive pulley kit. So, tomorrow morning I'm going to head up to World Impex when they open, and pick up the $30 socket, so I can use it for 20 minutes. If anyone needs one, it'll probably be up for sale tomorrow night.
Otherwise, thanks all for the great DIY. I'm doing it almost all by myself, so I spent about 7 hours today working on it, and I'm just starting to get everything put back together. At least I'm going into a long weekend.
Cool. You seem to be going through what everybody else went through.
Let us know how the timing belt went on. That was the hardest part for me.
Also, when you install the pancake pipe back on, make sure you have it seated properly and tightened, because it will come loose under boost. Happened to me.
Make sure you look at the pictures on how to put the accessory belt tensioner back on. The small plastic piece goes on the OUTSIDE, NOT BETWEEN the engine and the tensioner.
Hope it works out for you.
Quote, originally posted by StoicDude » 1. No real need to remove the headlight. It might give you some more space to work with, but I, and most other people on here, did fine without removing it.
You can remove the headlight and the front bumper, but I think it is unnecessary.
Very Much so!
Just did a VW Golf 2.0 AEG for a customer.Car had the following symptoms:
* eratic idle
* temperature would go past the 90*C mark into the 130*C range even though the fans were running.
I diagnosed it as a faulty water pump impeller.Client pulled into the shop @ around 9.30 and car was done around 12.45 or so....
With the right tools this job is very easy even for a novice.My advice is the following....get one of those old time engine jacks like this:
I have access to rotray hoists and all the correct tools but that does not mean with the above jack you cant do this in a decent time frame.
Start with removing the power steering and coolant resevoirs (when you remove the 2 rubber hoses stuff them with spark plugs) and toss the resevoirs to the side so that you dont waste any of the fluid in them.
* remove the serpentine belt
* remove the engine mounts with the 16 & 18mm deep sockets
* remove the engine mount bracket held in by 3 16mm long bolts.
After that lower the engine as much as possible with the jack and align the crankshaft accessory pulley with the mark on the lower timing belt cover.
From there everything is pretty much a walk in the park.I have alot of pictures to host up but my camera is on the fritz....lets hope these images are not lost.
Day two of Timing Belt Change:
Did pretty well today. I got the timing belt back on, put the new underdrive pulleys on, put the timing belt covers back on, and of course put the bugger engine mount (mounted to engine) back on. I ran into sort of a brick wall however, with the pulley for the alternator. I bought the splined tool to remove the old pulley, so I could put the pulley from ECS on. However, once I got it off, I couldn't see a way to fasten the new pulley back on. Does anyone know if there is a way to remove the center part of the stock alternator pulley from the pulley itself, so I can attach the new pulley?
Other than that, spent a bit of timing cleaning up the engine compartment, degressing parts that I would need to reattach, etc. The good news is that when I cranked the engine around, the TDC marks lined up perfectly. I still need to do a coolant flush, and obviously reinstall the alternator, so I don't know if it'll crank up right, but I have a good feeling. I probably have about 3 or 4 hours work tomorrow, just taking it slowly.
If anyone knows how to attach the ECS pulley to the alternator, please let me know.
I put everything back together today, put distilled water in to do a coolant flush once started, and cranked er up. It worked perfectly. I'm almost wondering if the timing was a bit off before (belt stretched a bit maybe?), because it is just purring now, almost like new. Flushing out all of the old coolant took a bit longer than I expected, but it is nice to know that all of it is new now, and I had added a valvoline radiator cleaner during the process, so it should be super clean now.
Thanks for the great DIY and all the little tips from everyone. Now I just need to contact ECS and ask them how the hell I'm supposed to attach their alternator pulley.
Modified by tamorgen at 8:46 AM 12-31-2007
Another BiG Thanks for this write up, very helpful. It took me 8 hrs to do it myself over 2 days. The takedown took 3 hrs and 4 to put it back together. That mount bracket is a real bastard. If I had someone to hold it, I could have shaved off 2 hrs easy. A second set of hands would have been helpful to keep the tension on the new belt when installing the idler and tensioner. For reference, I am semi pro mechanic. I have worked mostly on Vw's. Several timing belt jobs on 16 and 8v's. This job was much easier than the last big job I tackled; the timing chain, guides and tensioners on a 99.5 Jetta GLX VR6. That was hands down harder that a full swap.
If you have the tools, patience and common sense, go for it.
We replaced the Timining belt and water pump this weekend on my 2000 NB 1.8T but getting a check engine light. Code read it was off by one tooth. We tore it down again (3rd time) and corrected it. Everything lined up (belt and on transmission). checking engine light still on. Any ideas!!!! My hubby said it just needs to be reset, but worried about taking it to dealer (they will want to charge me a fortune to verify everything was done right and just needs to be reset).
Ouch. Most of the time once those codes hit the ECU, they don't go away, even after the problem is corrected. How did you get the code to begin with? Do you have a VAG-COM? If so, you should be able to reset it. If the code comes back, then you know that your timing is still off.
I did mine this weekend as well. I was fortunate enough that everything went according to plan, with the exception of loosing a good portion of my power steering fluid. Now I need to either go to the stealership and pay $39.95 for a liter of Pentosin 11s, or wait it to come in from World Impex or ECS. Guess it all can't go perfect.
Just wondering something. When I did my TB change last weekend, I lined up the cam gear to TDC. But then the flywheel would be off (by less than a tooth). I know it was less than a tooth because I took the belt off and put it back on about 20 times trying to get it perfect Anyways, its running good and no codes, just curious if anyone else had run into this.
With a lot of help from some friends i got my water pump replaced over the weekend, along with the timing belt of course.
Myself I'm a piker. I'm mechanically talented but don't spend much time working on cars. I was assisted by my friend Dan, who is an experienced shade tree mechanic, and my friend Roger, who is a master engine builder (works full time building engines at a machine shop).
A few observations:
1: It's mighty foolish not to drain the coolant before pulling the water pump. Honestly what's the idea? You only lose about half a cup of coolant pulling the pump if you drain it in the normal way before you start ripping things up.
2: This DIY doesn't mention automatic transmissions at all. We wasted an hour and a half looking for a timing mark that does not exist on my car. There is no TDC mark on the 5-speed tiptronic flywheel. And of course there is no timing plug either - just a view port that is immediately visible after pulling the belly pan.
3: It's not a sound shield, it's a splash guard. 10 minutes were lost to "what the heck does he mean by 'sound shield'? all i see is this ABS resin splash guard."
4: The motor mount bolts are not stretch bolts, and do not require replacement. I bought my parts locally (Parts For Imports on state street in Orem gave me a kickass deal on a nice german water pump w/ metal impeller) but nobody carries the engine mount bolts locally. Eventually I called the parts desk at Ken Garff VW/Audi in Orem, who told me that they do not stock the engine mount bolts because the factory manual does not recommend their replacement and their technicians always reuse them. And further that they are aware of the rumor that they are stretch bolts, but VW America disagrees.
5: When marking the timing belt and the pulleys, use a color that clashes with the engine. Lacking white-out we used silver model paint. This was megastupid. The first time i got the tensioner mounted and went to check everything, it turned out that the belt had slipped two teeth while i was fighting with the tensioner, and this was not immediately obvious except on close inspection. If we'd used bright orange paint, it would have been more obvious.
6: I say "the first time i got the tensioner mounted" because between myself and my friend, we mounted it three times. It turns out that there are at least two wrong positions for the motor mount to be in when you mount the tensioner. Guess how we know. Pay attention to where the motor mount will have to bolt down when you are bolting in the tensioner, and don't be afraid to raise and lower the engine a few inches to help you get things aligned.
7: There must be a trick to getting the tensioner in place. I don't know what it is. Every time we got it mounted, it was an hour of fiddling and cursing followed by an unexpected and immediate snap into perfect position. WTF?! any ideas here?
That's all I can think of right now.
My water pump impeller failed due to, imho, a design defect. It's obvious that the impeller is molded directly onto the knurled steel spindle of the water pump. In my case, a tiny amount of rust formed between the impeller and the spindle, and this expansion was enough to break the impeller neatly in half in just 33,000 miles. It's obvious because much of the rust is stuck to the impeller parts. This is inexcusable, and if i ever visit germany I'm going to track down the engineer who made this decision and smack him around a bit.
I've found something no one else is looking for. I've found something that there's no use for. And what's more i'm keeping it to myself.
I'm about 4-6 hours deep into the install. And I'm stuck now. I am in the process of putting the new belt on. The water pump is already installed and I'm iffy on the tensioner and the idler pulley. According to the guide it says to install the idler pulley first then the belt then the tensioner. But I tried that and couldn't do it so I installed the pulley then the tensioner. Now the belt is too tight. Any suggestions or possible faults in my plan?
Also, the motor mount, after being worked around 90% of the time thought it was an appropriate time to drop. Should I jam it back into approximate place before putting the belt on? I don't want to put the belt on then realize I have to take it off and feed the mount through again.
Quote, originally posted by brandtson » I'm about 4-6 hours deep into the install. And I'm stuck now. I am in the process of putting the new belt on. The water pump is already installed and I'm iffy on the tensioner and the idler pulley. According to the guide it says to install the idler pulley first then the belt then the tensioner. But I tried that and couldn't do it so I installed the pulley then the tensioner. Now the belt is too tight. Any suggestions or possible faults in my plan?
When i did mine, i put the pulley and tensioner, then put the belt on using the "bicycle chain" method i.e. put the belt on the cam and water pump, over the pulley, then put the first few teeth on the crank and turn the crank, thereby engaging the other teeth.
Quote, originally posted by brandtson » Also, the motor mount, after being worked around 90% of the time thought it was an appropriate time to drop. Should I jam it back into approximate place before putting the belt on? I don't want to put the belt on then realize I have to take it off and feed the mount through again.
I read in someone else's reply that you must put the motor mount back on before installing the tensioner, otherwise it will not go. I wouldn't know first hand since I kept mine in the entire time.
I realize that you are probably (hopefully) already finished, but perhaps this will help someone else.
the center bolt does not need to be removed. just the 4 allen bolts. are you using regular allen wrenches to remove the bolts? if so, go to sears or vatozone and get some sockets with hex drives on the end of it. if they still won't come out use the sockets on a breaker bar. if memory serves me right I think I used a 8-10 inch socket wrench and got it out relatively easy