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    Thread: Ultimate Timing Belt DIY!

    1. 07-21-2007 11:43 AM #106
      1 more ?

      how is the bracket supposed to be placed back for accessory tensioner...i noticed the op's instructions but is it 1 or 2?

      I could of swore it was in position 1 before i took off the original belt

      1


      2


      Modified by arch_ed0421 at 8:46 AM 7-21-2007


      Modified by arch_ed0421 at 8:47 AM 7-21-2007


      Modified by arch_ed0421 at 8:48 AM 7-21-2007


    2. 07-22-2007 06:24 AM #107
      Bracket goes on the outside, your second picture. I"m in the middle of this now. Got stuck trying to get the belt back on. Good luck, Rich

    3. 07-24-2007 06:55 PM #108
      oh gosh this was a PITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      That tensioner sucks to get on!


    4. 07-24-2007 07:23 PM #109
      thanks...i already put it on with the bracket on the outside...my car started....no problems

    5. 07-31-2007 09:01 AM #110
      just did mine over the weekend!! so glad i did it myself! 8 hours including lunch and a drive out for distilled water..
      some things to clarify..
      dont be afraid to jack the motor up or down for easier access to bolts..
      the hardest part is re-installing the timing belt.. here are some tips..
      forst off, the engine mount is 2 piece.. the one that actually goes to the block is the PITA one.. i left mine in the engine bay, but disconnected and moved it around as the OP stated.. when reinstalling the belt, this is the best order to do it in...

      water pump
      idler pulley
      timing belt (line up marks)
      rotate tensioner pulley to tighten belt
      get the motor mount and tensioner in there, install tensioner bolts(hardest part)
      install motor mount


      also, the easiest time to install the thermostat is any time that you have the body half of the motor mount still removed. this allows better acess to the alternator bolts.

      if you have any mechanical skills, this should be a pretty straight forward DIY.. but as others have said, it sure as heck isnt as easy as a 23 step process.. prepare for some bloody knuckles.


    6. Member alleghenyman's Avatar
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      08-12-2007 09:17 PM #111
      Good writeup. Frankly this is taxing my tool inventory in ways I've never thought possible, since my father and I have spent 40 years building it up. It't not so much weird sizes as different size wrenches and socket depths in order to get into the nooks and crannies. If you enjoy taking things apart to see how they work and want to gain an appreciation for your car's engineering, I heartily recommend setting aside a weekend to do this. It's the evening of day two and I've just turned the corner of putting on the new tensioner, water pump and timing belt, but I've worked slowly in order to avoid getting stressed out and making a mistake. The job itself is as straightforward as the writeup, but I have small hands and I still have trouble getting them in there to work.

      Honestly, the next time this needs to be done, I'm pulling the engine out on a hoist - it will probably take the same amount of time in the end with less strain on my back and fewer busted knuckles. I hope grime and antifreeze aren't toxic in trace amounts.

      I have to hand it to VW - the tensioner and the belt are in great shape despite 70k miles in the northeast, being parked outside all winter. No cracks in the belt, no play in the idler shafts, stif spring in the tensioner. Whatever complaints there were about the early MkIV's, they must have uprated the componentry. None of the bolts were even frozen and none stripped (so far). The water pump impeller was plastic (2003 model year) and a few hairline cracks but wasn't brittle. I decided to skip the thermostat since everything else was in pretty good shape, and the alternator wouldn't budge once the bolts were out.

      I will warn you though, if you're (a) not good with your hands, (b) don't understand how things work, or (c) generally impatient, pony up for a mechanic. I'm none of the above, but between the tight clearances, sharp edges on the drive pulleys, and dire consequences of a mistake, there have been times when I wondered whether mechanics make housecalls. There are some times when you're just doing things based on feel since you can't see, and if you just have a basic tool set you'll need a few additions to make things easier.

      Now I just have to put things back on. The "bicycle chain" method was the easiest for me and involved the least amount of force on the belt. Let's just hope there aren't bolts left over at the end!


      Modified by alleghenyman at 9:19 PM 8-12-2007

      "You see, I am for the great loves and the great hates."
      -Enzo Ferrari

    7. 08-12-2007 11:20 PM #112
      Quote, originally posted by PD Performance »

      You can see it right from the top straight down between the powersteering resivour and the engine.

      I never use the flywheel especially on aftermarket setups since I have way to many that are not marked correctly or marked at all.

      The factory manuals don't even reference using the flywheel on any new cars just the crank pulley and cam gear.

      your method does work but is not as reliable as using the actual crank.

      No need to even mark anything, there is a notch on the valve cover and mark on the cam gear. And a mark on the crank pulley and notch on the lower engine cover.

      Never done it any other way.


      excellent detailed writeup


      Good write up but i agree with you on this timing belt marking stuff, go with what marks are there from the factory, not nail polish..
      Chris

    8. Banned Elvir's Avatar
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      08-14-2007 03:50 PM #113
      one thing i think this DIY does not do well is explain how to put in the timing belt very effectively..I spent about 2 hours trying to figure it out..

      But, when you take off the timing belt and put in a new water pump as explained in DIY, make sure that the both cam and crank pulley are both at the TDC. After that, if you have already put in new marks on the new belt, you can proceed to put the timing belt form cam and rout it down to the crank. Now, this is the crucial part. Everything on your left side is ok to be loose, it has a tensioner, and a tensioner pulley that will tighten it up later, BUT on the right side, as the belt routs from the cam to the water pump down to the crank pulley, it needs to be tight.

      One problem that occurred with me, and im sure it will occur with everybody else is that the marked points on the belt will not align with the points on the crank pulley. you MUST align them to make this work. If you don't your right side will be lose, and most likely would cause the belt to skip and damage will occur.

      Now, when i did it, i was literally short by half a tooth on the crank pulley. What i had done is, i moved the crank CCW just a tad bit in order to be able to grip the timing belt at the marked point. Don't worry, this will not have an effect on the cam pulley because the belt on the right side is slightly loose. when you put the belt over, position the crank pulley back to its TDC by moving it back CW the same amount that you moved it CCW. you can check this on the opposite side of the engine, where the rubber plug was.

      Now, when you position it back to its original place, the cam pulley will move slightly clockwise by half a tooth. That is ok. You still have not put in the tensioner and the tensioner pulley. Once you do that, the TDC on the cam will align back up again. continue with the rest of the procedure in the DIY section.

      NOTE: most part of this job is easy for one person. I would highly recommend doing this with two people when it comes to the timing belt work. The reason behind this is because, i, as many others have not removed the part of the engine mount that bolts to the engine block. There was just not enough room. This will constantly get in the way of everything. you need an another individual to keeep moving this mount around so that it does not get in the way of your work.

      hope that helps..

      Elvir


    9. 08-24-2007 03:34 PM #114
      i decided to get mine replaced at a shop.
      i noticed to get the tdc marks he removed a spark plug and put a long rod down there. don't know how accurate this might be.

      also the belt hangs off the cam gear about 1mm or less. i don't like that.
      plus i taste burning from my vents.
      anyone know why?

      i wish i did this job myself. but for 225 for the labor, i guess it isn't too bad.

      from inspecting my old belts it looks pretty good. i think i could have gone another 20k miles. i have 65k now.

      are contitech belts OEM? cause i think i'll replace them when i reach 150k



      Modified by GiddyGTI at 3:36 PM 8-24-2007


    10. 08-26-2007 11:23 AM #115
      hi

      I’m going to changing T-belt soon my car 60,000mile.This’s going to be my first job changing the T-belt and by reading this it seem a lot of work. I‘ve couple question about cam gear and crank gear I don’t thinks I fully understand the principles need advice and educated more….

      1.Cam gear and crank gear have mark where is it located at ?

      2.before take the T-belt off need to turn engine to TDC first ,where/how do I turn the engine, crank gear ?
      In which way do I turn clockwise /counter clock or only spin one way?

      3.What happen if I turn the engine and past TDC mark keep on turning same direction until reach the mark?

      4. Once the T-belt off, cam gear and crank gear can it be in dividable moved around by hand or only with the belt is on?

      5. Ok, T-belt on everything line up release the tension inspected and found out the belt jump one or two teeth, what do I do ? Do I need go back to step#2 over again and take the belt off.

      6. I don’t understand why do you need to line up to TDC first before took T-belt off, in the end you going to turn the engine two time anyway.

      7. Where is the coolant drain plug at ?since I’m going to changing water pump need to drain coolant out.

      I have reading this DIY 2-3 times I thinks I can do it just a matter time and patience .I like working on car and have a little basic skill changing the brake, suspension ,oil change….I need to step up to the next level the engine parts….
      Thanks..



    11. Member oempls's Avatar
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      08-29-2007 12:53 AM #116
      About how long did this install take you guys?

    12. Member kamikaze2dope's Avatar
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      08-29-2007 01:36 AM #117
      Me 10 hours for the swap (ECS ultimate underdrive kit)
      I followed this tread point byt point and its great DIY.
      One thing i would say is that it needs more info and pics on some critical points of the job.

      Quote, originally posted by Island20V »
      About how long did this install take you guys?

    13. 08-29-2007 06:54 AM #118
      First, thank you for the write up. I will be using it to do my timing belt in a couple of weeks. I ordered the parts already so I am just waiting to have two days off in a row.

      Here are a couple of questions that I would like to have clarified.

      1. Bentley and other DIYs talk about marking the direction of the belt. I looked at the timing belt, glanced actually, and it seems as if the belt can be mounted either way,. meaning it is not unidirectional. Any answer to this?

      2. I will be using both the TDC and marking procedures to make sure I have everything lined up correctly.
      For the TDC, I assume you just turn the crankshaft clockwise until the marks line up. Correct?

      3. Any problems in refilling coolant? Bentley is talking about VAS 6096, which I have no clue about. I would think that you would be able to just pour coolant into the overfill tank until full.

      Thank you for your answers.


    14. 08-29-2007 08:35 AM #119
      Quote, originally posted by StoicDude »

      1. Bentley and other DIYs talk about marking the direction of the belt. I looked at the timing belt, glanced actually, and it seems as if the belt can be mounted either way,. meaning it is not unidirectional. Any answer to this? non unidirectional.

      2. I will be using both the TDC and marking procedures to make sure I have everything lined up correctly.
      For the TDC, I assume you just turn the crankshaft clockwise until the marks line up. Correct?correct. use the 12 point socket (and preferably a pipe on the end of a socket(its hard to turn)(removing plugs makes this part easier, i didnt, and wouldnt) turn the crankshaft till the campulley mark gets close. then watch for the mark on the flywheel.. the flywheel mark is much more sensitive due to the bigger diameter of the flywheel.

      3. Any problems in refilling coolant? Bentley is talking about VAS 6096, which I have no clue about. I would think that you would be able to just pour coolant into the overfill tank until full. here is what worked for me.. fill the overfill tank to the brim, turn on car till the coolant light comes on, refill coolant overfill tank to 2/3s full and turn the car on for a few min. refill coolant to proper level.

      Thank you for your answers.no worries. once you get in there it makes much more sense then it does on a computer monitor. just be sure that after you have the belt and all its periferials back on, make sure to turn the crank pully a few rotations.. if you screwed it up, youll for sure know now before you blow your valves apart. then double check to be sure TDC marks are still in sync,


    15. 08-29-2007 07:10 PM #120
      Thank you for the explanations.

    16. Member BIG DUB's Avatar
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      08-30-2007 02:31 PM #121
      nice write up

    17. 09-01-2007 09:36 AM #122
      I just finished the install. I would recommend removing the coolant res. and power steering res. It will give you alot more room to work.

      Also I supported the motor with wood blocks when jacking jusr in case the jack slipped. I really didn't like having my hands in there while the motor was jacked seemed real dangerous. Do yourself a favor and use some blocks just in case!

      I used the markings on the belt and TDC marks on cam, crank and flywheel worked out real well.

      Thanks for the DIY! VW quoted me $850 - $1000. I brought all the tools/parts and still saved about $400.


    18. 09-24-2007 08:01 AM #123
      Quick question for you guys.

      I finished the job and the car was driving fine until my pancake pipe connection blew apart.

      The connection was on the pancake pipe facing the rear of the car, away from the intercooler. I was pretty sure I tightened it well, but apparently not.

      Question is: Anything special I need to do?

      It seems that the pipe and the hose do not go in too far. And it is a bitch to fit.

      Thanks for the answers


    19. Member vwk2's Avatar
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      09-24-2007 11:23 AM #124
      Quote, originally posted by StoicDude »

      It seems that the pipe and the hose do not go in too far. And it is a bitch to fit.

      mine slipped right on... there is a thin peg that sticks out so you dont slip the hose on too far... just lubricate a tiny bit inside that hose, have the clamp real loose, slip it on and tighten uip that clamp...


    20. Member kamikaze2dope's Avatar
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      09-24-2007 12:14 PM #125
      Are you 100% sure of this?

      Quote, originally posted by rocketrich »
      Bracket goes on the outside, your second picture. I"m in the middle of this now. Got stuck trying to get the belt back on. Good luck, Rich

    21. 09-24-2007 07:21 PM #126
      The bracket does go on the outside. I put it between the tensioner and the engine and my tensioner is crooked. I have to fix it now.

    22. 10-03-2007 12:42 PM #127

    23. Member tochtli83's Avatar
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      10-11-2007 04:23 AM #128
      I'm working on a 1998 Passat 1.8T with the AEB motor in it. The car has a long history (150K), but looks nice. I'm doing the timing belt, as the old one was shredding along the front edge against an ECS underdrive pulley. Not sure of the cause, but I'm replacing everything.
      Anyway, I lined up the mark for the cam just fine, then following the book, I went to line up the crankshaft pulley mark to the lower timing cover: they were off by a country mile. So, I compared to the mark on the flywheel. It's hard to see on the automatic trans edge, but the mark there looked OK.

      I guess my question is: has anyone else noticed that the crankshaft serpentine pulley marks do NOT line up with the lower timing cover arrow, even with the cam marks, and flywheel marks lined up? I mean, which is less (or more) accurate: the flywheel or the crankshaft pulley? Is it possible to time these things back a tooth and still not bend the valves?

      The car was running fine when it got here, and I did the marker/white-out trick on the new TB when I installed it. I spun it over 3 times and no binding. But it almost looks like I could rotate the crank back a half a tooth to have the cam mark line up a touch better with the flywheel mark.

      Thoughts?


    24. 10-13-2007 09:21 AM #129
      I've done this project and everything was going like clockwork...'til I went to put the passenger side motor mount back in. (already have the belt and tensioner installed. What's the best way to do it without taking that tensioner back out?
      Thanks.

    25. 10-14-2007 04:15 AM #130
      Just an update for the next schmuck in the same crunch as me (unable to get the motor mount back in):

      I dropped the motor down as far as I could. No luck.
      Tried getting it in from the top. No go.
      Tried from the bottom. No way.
      Took the driver side motor mount off (just the two bolts that attach to the body). Nope.
      Finally decided to tip the motor toward the driver side. (two jacks required. Lower the drive side more than the passenger side. EUREKA! Success. Very easy after that.


    26. Member bodo920's Avatar
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      10-24-2007 05:42 PM #131
      Did this last night with a buddy and it took 5 hours, but could have easily been less. But having all the right tools and this DIY certainly helped. Thanks very much for the writeup and saving me a bundle.
      We actually put in the belt last, after the idler pulley and tensioner, because we were having a tough time putting the tensioner on with the belt in place. As long as you route it properly and still have your marks lined up, it will still work, but do whatever is easiest.

    27. Member kamikaze2dope's Avatar
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      10-24-2007 09:40 PM #132

      For all of you who did this:
      Do you need to unbolt the lower torque arm mount before jacking the engine up and down?


    28. 10-24-2007 11:55 PM #133
      would pay attention to the Crankshaft and camshaft markings. Forget about the pulley. The ECS one might not even have the proper markings. Also, the person who owned the car before you (I assume you are not the original owner) might not have lined up the pulley correctly.

      Steve: The motor mount goes inside the belt. Well, actually one of the arms (the motor mount has three of them that bolt to the engine) goes right inside the loop, so the best thing is to place the one arm inside the belt and put the belt on.

      Quote, originally posted by kamikaze2dope »

      For all of you who did this:
      Do you need to unbolt the lower torque arm mount before jacking the engine up and down?

      I didn't. There is noting in any of the DIY regarding this and even the Bentley does not mention it. You are not jacking the engine that high up.


    29. 10-29-2007 01:47 PM #134
      My first (or second?) post....I killed myself last night doing this job until 3:30am. I should have waited for a weekend with more time...it took me about 8 hours and I started at dinnertime on a Sunday. Whoops.

      Thanks for the instructions and photos, I haven't turned on the car yet but everything is installed and it didn't bind when I turned it over by hand so (please, Lord) I think it shouldn't blow up when I start it later today.

      It sounds like there are a few different approaches to this, with people saying the timing belt was hard to get on, "I used the bicycle chain method", etc. I personally just followed the instructions here and put on the T-belt before the tensioner, and that was a 1-minute job. The very difficult part for me was figuring out how the tensioner and the motor mount fit together so I could try to get holes lined up and get the tensioner fasteners in there! I was extrememly aggravated, with my wife trying to hold the mount from above while I jockeyed the tensioner from below (this is with my wheel on because my wheel lock key is lost). If someone can somehow get a photo of how that tensioner fits around the motor mount, it might help some other folks avoid wasted time (I spent at least two hours on this one item). The key is that the top of the tensioner has a curvy thin piece that fits around and *over* the motor mount (well, one of it's three attachment locations, anyway). Also, if you're confused about how the tensioner pulley mates up to the tensioner, don't assume that the tensioner rod mates to the fork thing on the pulley. It mates to the flat piece just below the fork. Look at your old one and you'll see a worn spot.


    30. 11-05-2007 01:01 PM #135
      Did my timing belt/water pump this weekend using the ECS kit. This DIY made it a snap. 84K on an '01 Wolf and the water pump had three cracks when I removed it.

      A couple things. Don't bother trying to remove the lower engine mount. You can shove it around and get the job done. I used the timing marks on the cam gear, crank gear and flywheel. Works like a champ.

      Did the whole thing over a weekend with time to spare.

      I started to replace the thermostat but getting the alternator off was turning into a real PITA! So I bagged it. There's nothing wrong with my thermostat anyway.


    31. 11-14-2007 09:33 PM #136

    32. Member Russjameson's Avatar
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      11-27-2007 01:29 AM #137
      Can't wait to do this on my GLI....thanks for a great write up.

    33. 11-27-2007 05:29 PM #138
      thanks tim! this was hugely helpful. way easier than i thought it was going to be. 6 hours, 6 beers, only 1 busted knuckle.


    34. 12-09-2007 02:34 PM #139
      How do you release the tension on the T-belt when removing it? Or do you just unbolt the tensioner?


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