That's great info man thanks for sharing
#1
I have been trying to get a CIS fuel pump to flow gas on my test stand.
The DC motor inside the pump would run fine but no gas would be pressurized through the pump.
So I cut the fuel pump apart and did a failure analysis. In case you have not seen the "guts" of a fuel pump, here they are:
The failure was two broken plastic tabs on the end of the DC motor. These tabs drive the Eccentric Plate with 5 rollers that create the fuel pressure.
The tabs are circled in RED. Also notice that the armature is worn about 50% (ie groove in armature).
The carbon brush assembly was also worn about 50% as shown in the RED circles.
If the two plastic tabs had not sheared off, the fuel pump was still usable.
I have no idea what caused the tabs to shear as the DC motor in the pump ran the first time on the test stand. Anyway, a bummer
Cheers, WWR.
WWR
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#2
That's great info man thanks for sharing
#3
Quote, originally posted by The_GTi_Art » That's great info man thanks for sharing X2
#4
i think i might have had the same thing happen to me... that explains why the pump would make noise but no fuel would come out...-j
tl;dr
#6
you cut the pump apart so does this mean you can not repair and reassemble it?
#7
Funny, I was just reading about how the pump works last night. My buddies shop has a whole series of Bosch manuals and I have been reading them in my spare time.
#8
Quote, originally posted by jonny_breakz » you cut the pump apart so does this mean you can not repair and reassemble it? The aluminum housing or jacket around the entire pump unit is sealed and crimped to the outlet end with the electrical connections. Consequently the pump is not repairable once the aluminum housing is cut.
The normal failure is worn out carbon brushes or completely worn out armature. This pump is the first one that I have seen with the broken tabs on the end of the DC motor. Basically no tabs, no drive of the eccentric plate and its rollers.
I have played off & on several days to get the failed pump to pressurize fluid. The DC motor ran fine but there was no pressure. Consequently I knew the fuel pump was "dead" and want to know the failure.
Cheers, WWR.
WWR
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Harry Puckett R.I.P. 01-24-2010. You are gone too soon. We had races
to race, jokes to tell, laughter to share, and cold beers to drink.
#9
I guess you can't use a tin can to fix this one up eh?
Thanks alot for sharing. I wondered how the insides of these pumps looked
#10
Do you know how many miles were on the pump?Curious to know what the life expectancy is, approximately (nice to know when to replace one even if it still works so one doesn't get stranded).
Obviously mileage not a true reflection of how many times the thing went 'round, but best we'd have.
#11
Quote, originally posted by echassin » Do you know how many miles were on the pump? I have no idea on the "mileage" of that fuel pump. But I have had a Bosch fuel pump last for about 180K miles until the carbon brushes/armature gave up the ghost.
Just a guess, but I believe that a pump should be good for at least 150K miles unless some debris from the gas tank jams the DC motor inside the pump.
Cheers, WWR.
WWR
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Harry Puckett R.I.P. 01-24-2010. You are gone too soon. We had races
to race, jokes to tell, laughter to share, and cold beers to drink.
#12
I changed from VWMS fuel dis to a standard one and have not had any fuel pump troubles I don't know if this is related to one another
#13
Quote, originally posted by WackyWabbitRacer » I have no idea on the "mileage" of that fuel pump. But I have had a Bosch fuel pump last for about 180K miles until the carbon brushes/armature gave up the ghost. Just a guess, but I believe that a pump should be good for at least 150K miles unless some debris from the gas tank jams the DC motor inside the pump.
Cheers, WWR.
Mine went for approx 240k miles, provided that it was orig. I can at least say that it looked like it was never removed or replaced. There was so much rust on the metal fitting end of the fuel pump hose that I'm suprirsed there was any metal left.
#14
Thanks for the info.I always learn something from your posts.
#15
To bad these things can't be rebuilt especially if you have to ditch the pump because of worn out brushes.Just match some brushes up, machine the armature, good to go for about $20.
#16
Quote, originally posted by eightwaysanta » To bad these things can't be rebuilt especially if you have to ditch the pump because of worn out brushes. Unfortunately the armature is copper with a hard plastic core. Consequently the armature can not be machined or turned smooth again.
Once the carbon brushes wear a groove in the armature, the DC motor is pretty much history.
If a new CIS fuel pump costs $150 (somewhere in that neighborhood), and it lasts for 150,000 miles, then the cost is about 0.1 cents per mile of driving.
Cheers, WWR.
WWR
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Harry Puckett R.I.P. 01-24-2010. You are gone too soon. We had races
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#17
[QUOTE=WackyWabbitRacer]Unfortunately the armature is copper with a hard plastic core. Consequently the armature can not be machined or turned smooth again.
Once the carbon brushes wear a groove in the armature, the DC motor is pretty much history.
Really? , we machine armature's all the time. If theres enough copper left you can regroove it and it'll be almost like new
#18
Quote, originally posted by eightwaysanta » Really? , we machine armature's all the time. If theres enough copper left you can regroove it and it'll be almost like new That is good information to know. Unfortunately with the CIS fuel pump, once the aluminum housing is cut to fix an armature or brush problem, a new housing is required with the correct sealing/crimping.
Thanks for the infor, WWR.
WWR
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Harry Puckett R.I.P. 01-24-2010. You are gone too soon. We had races
to race, jokes to tell, laughter to share, and cold beers to drink.
#19
Quote, originally posted by eightwaysanta » To bad these things can't be rebuilt especially if you have to ditch the pump because of worn out brushes. There is a company that rebuilds/reman the Bosch CIS fuel pumps called Fuel Injection Corporation.They also do FD's and WUR's. Whether I would buy one or not is a different story.
Modified by EuroKid83 at 9:56 PM 10-23-2006
#20
Interesting link, I wonder where they get the service parts. I hate throwing expensive electrical stuff away especially for something simple as brushes. From the WWR pics the FP brushes look like a common one I'd just have match them up.Trying to save or modify the housing once its open would be the biggerst problem as far as I can see. I don't have one lying around but if any one has a crapped out FP they suspect is just brushes and wants to send me one or better yet if someone in the Toronto-GTA has one I'll pick it up and try to put new brushes and machine the armature, I'll post pics and pn#s if possible if you guys think its worth it.
#21
Quote, originally posted by eightwaysanta » Trying to save or modify the housing once its open would be the biggerst problem as far as I can see Yes, the replacement of the aluminum housing is the major problem. I suspect the repair shop mentioned in one of the posts has access to new aluminum housings with the capability to seal/crimp the housing onto the brush assembly end of the pump.
The seal/crimp has to be good as the CIS fuel pump can create a fuel pressure from 80 psi to a "dead-headed" >100 psi.
Cheers, WWR.
WWR
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