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    Thread: Well the quest has begun!!! Fastest VR6 on nitrous

    1. 08-06-2008 10:33 AM #276
      As long as it passes Pa state inspection, has a valid plate and DOT tires you should be good.


      Modified by tooslojetta at 7:39 AM 8-6-2008

    2. 08-06-2008 10:41 AM #277
      Quote, originally posted by tooslojetta »
      As long as it passes Pa state inspection, has a valid plate and DOT tires you should be good.

      Modified by tooslojetta at 7:39 AM 8-6-2008

      Hahaha, not gonna work. Oh well.

    3. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      08-06-2008 02:20 PM #278
      You can use a 6AL on a distro car, you just need to put the MSD in between the stock ignitor and the coil.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
      MK3 Race Car Partout

    4. 08-06-2008 03:24 PM #279
      Quote, originally posted by need_a_VR6 »
      You can use a 6AL on a distro car, you just need to put the MSD in between the stock ignitor and the coil.

      That requires a DISTRO computer.

    5. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      08-06-2008 04:21 PM #280
      Ah I didn't catch that you weren't using the whole distro computer/harness.
      -Paul
      1995 GTI VR6 - Retired - 12.90@106 R32 power - 12.833@106 12v power
      KPTuned - Official MegaSquirt: Sales - Repair - Installation - Tuning
      MK3 Race Car Partout

    6. 08-07-2008 09:58 AM #281
      [QUOTE=tooslojetta]
      I have a coilpack car and was using an MSD DIS-4 to pull timing. Unfortunately this setup is not pulling timing until 4k rpm so I am in the process of installing a MegaSquirt system. This will allow me to pull timing as soon as the n2o is activated. The calculated A/F ratio while spraying depends on a few factors such as stock engine hp and the amount of nitrous hp you plan on adding. Send me your numbers and I can calculate the "suggested" A/F for a NA motor for you.
      Regardless of the A/F - learn to read spark plugs and ALWAYS check them if you are changing jetting, timing,fuel etc.
      BTW. what are you considering a big shot?
      Update: Just noticed in your sig the Caravan! You got to bring that thing to the Flashlight Drags - 9/20/08 in Zelienople, Pa. I'd love to see it run!
      Modified by tooslojetta at 6:02 AM 8-6-2008
      We might have to bring the van. Is it all VWs or a handful of everything? We haven't had a chance to race it this season with the new long block. Should be running mid 12's if we can grab.
      BTW why wont it allow you to retard timing before 4k?
      And I'm considering a over 125 a "big shot."

    7. 08-07-2008 10:14 AM #282
      The Flashlight Drags are open to any PA inspected and registered car with DOT tires. Go to http://www.flashlightdrags.com to check out the schedule. There are basically 2 classes, Top Dawgs - mostly domestics but not limited to that and Tuners - mostly imports but not limited to that either. Some pretty serious cars show up for these events in both classes.
      The DIS-4 I have does not have the N2O activation wire option, that came out on a later version. That leaves me using the "high speed" retard feature that doesn't start until 4k

    8. Member
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      08-13-2008 09:54 PM #283
      Thanks for reviving this thread...
      This is my Direct Port Setup:



      FYI My nozzles are installed on the upper intake manifold.
      I am running 125 shots right now.
      Just tested a few days back with Denso Iridium IK20 plugs, 1 degree retard on the MSD SCI Digital (I have a distributor vr6).
      Started spraying from the start I did a ET 12.893 @ 110.89 MPH.
      My 60FT was 2.011 (22x8x15 MT slicks).
      Burned 2 Denso IK20 plugs and I could hear some detonation.
      My 60 feat was also not so good I think.
      I have no nitrous controller so it was little tricky to activate the
      2-step rev limiter and making sure I don't start spraying before the launch.
      Things on my list for the next run:
      - Getting bigger 23x7.5x15 slicks (my 22x8x15 are gone)
      - Already installed 2 degree colder Denso IK22 plugs
      - MSD retard set to 2 degrees
      - Use a relay to deactivate the nitrous while 2-step is active
      Hope to lower that more so I can move to playing with jets.
      It still runs very rich.
      Modified by vproject at 11:00 PM 8-13-2008


      Modified by vproject at 10:11 AM 8-16-2008
      1994 VW Golf GL (3.0L Euro VR6 Sleeper), Euro Distributor VR6, DSG 268 Cams, Forged Pistons, GIAC Chip, MSD SCI Ignition & 2-step, ACT Heavy Duty Clutch Kit, Peloquin LSD, 3.94 R&P, DSS Stage 3 Axles, Direct Port Nitrous System, M&H Slicks 23x7x15
      Picture: http://www.curacaodrag.com/modules/g...2_itemId=52238

    9. 08-14-2008 07:21 AM #284
      Hey vrproject! Nice to hear from you again!
      As for plugs, try some Autolite AR3933's if they are available there. They have an "open" electrode and are a few steps colder than the factory plugs.
      Launching on 125 shot is going to be tough but I've never tried it on slicks so you may be able to make it work. $149 will get you a n2o controller from dynotunenitrous.com and is well worth the investment

    10. 08-16-2008 07:23 PM #285
      Can anyone tell me what your ideal A/F is and what size shot you're using?

    11. 08-17-2008 12:14 AM #286
      12.5 should be healthy for a decent nitrous shot [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    12. 08-18-2008 09:59 AM #287
      Depends what you consider a decent shot. With a 200hp shot I am running roughly 10:1 With a smaller shot, say 100hp, 11.7 - 12 should be good

    13. 08-18-2008 10:58 AM #288
      your car running a 12.8 on a 200 shot? maybe you ought to lean it out a lil bit. or lean it a bit and only run 150. before i re-tuned my car, there was a rich dip in A/F from 13.1 to 10.75:1 and my teeth almost hit the wheel from how much power dropped at that point


      Modified by GTIStile at 11:35 AM 8-18-2008

    14. Member
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      08-18-2008 04:11 PM #289
      Quote, originally posted by GTIStile »
      your car running a 12.8 on a 200 shot?
      Modified by GTIStile at 11:35 AM 8-18-2008

      Mike was running drag radials and literally rolling out of the hole. 60's were way up there. Full weight car too.
      Life begins at 101 kpa ...and so does poverty--Lugnuts Calhoun

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      08-18-2008 04:47 PM #290
      Watch it Mark, that "term" has a different meaning here apparently.

    16. Member
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      08-18-2008 04:50 PM #291
      Life begins at 101 kpa ...and so does poverty--Lugnuts Calhoun

    17. Member Boost112's Avatar
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      08-18-2008 05:01 PM #292
      Quote, originally posted by tooslojetta »
      $149 will get you a n2o controller from dynotunenitrous.com and is well worth the investment

      or you can spend the extra $50 and get the fjo controller and you run a rpm based progressive shot...
      --- SPACE FOR RENT---

      Quote Originally Posted by schwartzmagic View Post
      Those VRTs are so full of win :-D

      www.dubcartel.net

    18. 08-18-2008 07:08 PM #293
      how much quicker do the solenoids wear out using a progressive controller?

    19. 08-19-2008 09:04 AM #294
      Quote, originally posted by GTIStile »
      your car running a 12.8 on a 200 shot? maybe you ought to lean it out a lil bit. or lean it a bit and only run 150. before i re-tuned my car, there was a rich dip in A/F from 13.1 to 10.75:1 and my teeth almost hit the wheel from how much power dropped at that point

      Modified by GTIStile at 11:35 AM 8-18-2008

      If you are interested, here's the calculation I use to determine a good A/F ratio with N2O. Keep in mind that the chemical content of N2O is different than the air we breath and the stoichiometric A/F for N2O and gasoline is roughly 7:1. With that in mind to properly calculate A/F when spraying I do the following for the VR6:
      1. Base horsepower on our dyno = 165
      2. Horsepower added with n2o = 200
      3. The A/F for the WOT, no nitrous, 165hp I'm shooting for is 12.8:1
      4. The A/F for the 200hp of n2o should be 7:1
      5. Now calculate what % of the total horsepower produced gets what A/F, add them together and that's my target A/F while running N2O.
      Here's how I came up with my A/F - good thing I'm not a math teacher:
      total horsepower w/n2o = 365
      %power w/o n2o 165/365= .0452 or 45%
      %power of n2o shot = 200/365=.547 or 55%
      So 45% at 12.8 = .45x12.8 = 5.76
      plus
      55% at 7:1 = .55x7 = 3.85
      Combined A/F for horsepower produced for the above combo:
      5.76 + 3.85 = 9.61
      Hope that helps!

    20. 08-19-2008 09:06 AM #295
      Quote, originally posted by GTIStile »
      how much quicker do the solenoids wear out using a progressive controller?

      The solenoids don't wear out but the plungers do. A 5 minute replacement and a small price to pay for the control gained.

    21. 08-19-2008 10:34 AM #296
      /\ small price to pay if the solenoid doesnt get stuck open that is... or is this actually more uncommon than people make it out to be?

      Also, interesting, tooslo, how you decided to figure out the a/f. My logic is a bit different however (this is not to say im an expert on nitrous tuning, but hear me out).
      While the air we breath is composed of 23.X% oxygen and nitrous is around 36%, if you were to spray raw nitrous without boosting fuel pressure or injecting it alongside the nitrous, you would obviously run very lean. With the addition of extra fuel to stabilize the extra incoming air, why would you need to change the a/f ratio by 30+% when you're only adding at most 12-13% more air. 9.8:1 sounds more like a boost motor compression ratio than an a/f ratio.
      I feel like by using your equation (if you applied it the same way) for say a boost application, you would end up with a richer and richer a/f number per + psi of boost and eventually some ridiculous number like 5:1 @ 30psi of boost. Doesn't add up to me that by adding more air means you need to OVER-DO the fuel...
      I've talked to a few guys running 150 single nozzle kits on K20 motors, and they're tunning to around 11.8:1 +/- and calling that pretty conservative. Guy also says he's been running 2 different cars, both with over 125hp coming from bottles for 2+ years, every weekend at the strip and has noticed absolutely no deterioration in compression or performance.
      I Think it's an incredibly important topic that we can all use more knowledge on. I'll continue my research and see if i come up with anything else [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    22. 08-19-2008 11:09 AM #297
      Quote, originally posted by GTIStile »
      /\ small price to pay if the solenoid doesnt get stuck open that is... or is this actually more uncommon than people make it out to be?

      Just like anything else in the high performance world you should perform regular maintenance. Should a fuel solenoid fail to open the damage would be substantial.

    23. 08-19-2008 11:15 AM #298
      Quote, originally posted by GTIStile »
      /I feel like by using your equation (if you applied it the same way) for say a boost application, you would end up with a richer and richer a/f number per + psi of boost and eventually some ridiculous number like 5:1 @ 30psi of boost. Doesn't add up to me that by adding more air means you need to OVER-DO the fuel...

      First of all it's important to understand that we are not adding air with N2O but rather we are adding Oxygen. With this in mind the FI comparison is irrelavent and my equation cannot apply.

    24. 08-19-2008 11:21 AM #299
      Quote, originally posted by GTIStile »
      /I've talked to a few guys running 150 single nozzle kits on K20 motors, and they're tunning to around 11.8:1 +/- and calling that pretty conservative. Guy also says he's been running 2 different cars, both with over 125hp coming from bottles for 2+ years, every weekend at the strip and has noticed absolutely no deterioration in compression or performance.

      I would be curious to see what my calculation would yield for the K20 motor you mentioned? Did you try calculating the A/F using that engines base horsepower, desired n/a A/F and n2o horsepower added? I believe the stock k20 produces between 200-220hp. If he's made any mod's it can be significantly more. With the proper input info to the equation an A/F of 11.8 may actually be right on the money!

    25. 08-19-2008 12:10 PM #300
      Quote, originally posted by tooslojetta »
      First of all it's important to understand that we are not adding air with N2O but rather we are adding Oxygen. With this in mind the FI comparison is irrelavent and my equation cannot apply.

      i meant oxygen... trying to gather my thoughts and then type them correctly before forgetting them is
      with FI though, you are adding more oxygen to the equation through higher pressures... "more" normal 'air' in a confined space (aka boost) yields more oxygen that the motor is burning. This is why turbo cars are tuned richer than a NA car.
      effectively, whether you're adding more oxygen by introducing boost, or N2O, the goal is the same, get more oxygen to the motor.... which i think is why I want to think that a/f tuning a nitrous car should be similar to a boosted one... does that make sense?
      Let me try your equation on the k20 and see what happens


      Modified by GTIStile at 12:13 PM 8-19-2008

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