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    Thread: Why the secondary / auxiliary / after-run water pump stops working and what you can do to fix it

    1. Member o0bur's Avatar
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      11-01-2007 12:23 AM #51
      Quote, originally posted by VgRt6 »
      ... Here's what I did to reassemble the motor housing. You can laugh at me for being a dumbass, but it worked and MacGyver would be damn proud. I took two pieces of thread from my wife's sewing machine, looped the thread around the brushes and pulled to retract them, wrapped the thread around the plastic guard for the wiring harness contacts, dropped the upper portion in place, released the tension on the threads and then pulled the threads out. I would have taken pictures, but I could have used more than two hands just to do the reassembly...

      Thanks for the write-up - My aux pump crapped out on me, I don't like the idea of hot spots while the engine cools down.. So I tackled this one immediately upon discovery of the problem.. Here are some observations:
      Before anything was taken apart I took a Multimeter to the prongs of the motor, and checked for it's initial resistance. I got a reading of 6.2-6.3 ohms. This reading was when the pump wasn't working - so perhaps that can be used as a quick check while everything is still connected in the car to see what condition the brushes and whatnot are in.
      Gary - you mentioned about putting the motor back together with string.. I managed to get some shots of the re-assembly.
      Here is the picture of the 'threads' as you mentioned - and I did manage to find some sewing thread.. strong stuff!! I'll have to remember that..


      After this it took several attempts to keep the threads on the blocks while trying to position it on, but I did manage within the first few tries to do it, I had it together.



      Ta-Da! Right??
      Finally, after all was re-assembled, I took the multimeter back to the leads, and got...

      Which leads me to conclude that anything 3 ohms or less means that your pump must be in great shape.. Before the tear down of the little motor I put 12V to the motor, and it wouldn't spin on its own, as soon as I spun the magnet on my own it then started spinning, but roughly. Once done, I tried the same test again, it was very responsive to voltage, as soon as I got contact with 12V it immediately spun to life.
      Anywho, thanks for the writeup - DIY ftw imho. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      O0BUR DUB
      APR B5.5 PASSAT
      Certified VW Tech

    2. Banned
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      12-18-2007 05:17 PM #52
      Gruvenparts has a bracket that may help reduce vibration-related pump failures.
      I figure you could always make one yourself with a nice U-bolt of the proper size.
      http://www.gruvenparts.com/web...id=60


    3. 12-19-2007 12:10 AM #53
      Nice work Gary! I currently have 3 out of Gruven's 6 parts that are available for my hooptie, I love their stuff. I would also like to be able to buy the other three things! [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emgift.gif[/IMG]

    4. 12-19-2007 08:25 PM #54
      I tested mine today with no luck I'm not getting power to the pump. I removed the harness and turned the ignition on and used a volt meter and get nothing. This is on a 93 Passat VR6 swap into a 90 Jetta. Where should I look first to see what's going on?

    5. 12-19-2007 08:52 PM #55
      First check to make sure that the fuse is good. If it is, then the fan control module might be bad.

    6. 12-19-2007 08:56 PM #56
      Quote, originally posted by VgRt6 »
      First check to make sure that the fuse is good. If it is, then the fan control module might be bad.

      Does it have its own fuse? meaning does the fuse control anything else?

    7. 12-19-2007 09:53 PM #57
      For a MKIV, it's on the same fuse as the A/C clutch. Not sure about other cars.

    8. 12-19-2007 09:58 PM #58
      Thanks anyway [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] I will have to check it out tomorrow.

    9. 12-20-2007 07:26 PM #59
      I had a chance to check it today. On my car its fuse #15 which was fine. Let me make sure I'm checking it right? With the car running I remove the harness from the pump and check to see if I get voltage or not? Do I need to hook the meter to both terminal or ground one to the body?

    10. 12-20-2007 10:26 PM #60
      Turn the ignition on and connect the meter to both terminals on the harness. One is +12v, the other is ground.

    11. Member mikebobelak's Avatar
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      12-21-2007 12:39 AM #61
      If you want to ditch the A/C , and fan controller, IE after market fans,....
      Do what I did , Rabbit (MK1) 2prong fan switch in the rad. Ground one side, otherside to a relay powering the fans and Aux pump. Works flawlessly, even "runs after" for a few mins. Best thing is its easy to jump the fan switch with a screwdriver after a run down the track,and cool the engine back down a bit.....

    12. 12-21-2007 02:43 AM #62
      The following might be helpful for information on replacement brushes:
      http://www.vwwatercooled.org.a...t=563
      I looked closely the other day, and I think mine is out of commission; no noise, no vibration, and no leaks either.
      I'll follow up with an update after fixing/reconditioning it.
      ==============
      Follow-up #1 below:
      ==============
      Tested for power at the after-run (aux. water) pump and there was none: the meter reads 0 Volts regardless of ignition/key position.
      Fuse #16 is OK, and the a/c clutch seems to function properly.
      I'm unable to check the pump right now (will need to fabricate a custom adapter for direct hookup to the battery).
      The car runs perfectly; I've never experienced over/under heating, and the engine always reaches 90 C operating temperature within a few minutes after I start her up. Side note: the ambient temperature here in Montreal can vary from -40 C to + 40 C over the course of the year.
      ==============
      Follow-up #2 below:
      ==============
      Tested the pump by connecting it directly to the battery, and it works fine! Looks like I'll need to trace the wiring and the fan control module.
      For those worrying about not having a working after run pump consider this: In my case, the fans and the a/c work perfectly, and I suspect the fan control module is not faulty. The car never over heats, and doesn't have any other issues either. It runs like the day it was bought new, and I'm now at 170,xxx km. The aux. pump stopped working around 90,xxx km.



      Modified by rabi at 10:43 PM 8-9-2009

    13. 12-21-2007 08:41 PM #63
      Quote, originally posted by VgRt6 »
      Turn the ignition on and connect the meter to both terminals on the harness. One is +12v, the other is ground.

      I don't get 12V at the harness I ran 12V to the pump and it works fine. Anyone know where the two wire go to? When I used the meter on the harness and I only saw 1.8V

    14. 12-21-2007 09:40 PM #64
      I believe the wires go to the fan control module. It controls the aux pump, A/C and radiator fans.

    15. 12-21-2007 09:51 PM #65
      I guess I'll just have to leave it the way it is. My a/c stuff has been pulled from the PO so I don't know where to start to look.

    16. Member mikebobelak's Avatar
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      12-21-2007 10:56 PM #66
      Quote, originally posted by BMAN »
      I guess I'll just have to leave it the way it is. My a/c stuff has been pulled from the PO so I don't know where to start to look.

      Aux pump is tied into the controller, it should work with the AC pulled.
      Check the connector at the main harness and see if they are corroaded.
      What year is the car?

    17. 12-21-2007 11:43 PM #67
      Quote, originally posted by mikebobelak »
      Aux pump is tied into the controller, it should work with the AC pulled.
      Check the connector at the main harness and see if they are corroaded.
      What year is the car?

      Where is the controller located? My car is a 90 Jetta Coupe with a 93 Passat VR6 engine.

    18. 12-22-2007 10:21 PM #68
      Are these the right color wires?



      Modified by BMAN at 5:52 PM 12-23-2007

    19. 04-18-2008 10:56 PM #69
      PM me sumbody who can answer this question. mine is leaking and i hear u can just remove this pump, but is this the aux pump that pumps coolant thru the hose after the engine is turned off to cool it down properly, or what does it do if that isnt it. i want to have as little as possibly in my bay

    20. 04-28-2008 12:41 PM #70
      help, I have caught the pump leaking before it damaged the motor. I have looked everywhere for a replacement O-ring. Does anybody know where I can get one? Thanks.

    21. 04-28-2008 06:19 PM #71
      ok, after checking NAPA, CarQuest, AutoZone, Advance, Lowes, Homedepot. I finally found it and fixed the problem!
      Ace Hardware has the O-ring for .49 plus tax.

    22. Member rigger's Avatar
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      11-17-2008 10:28 PM #72
      just wanted to add a little diagnostic help here:
      1.
      Remove the connector from the aux water pump
      2.
      Turn on the ignition.
      3.
      If you check the voltage with a digital voltmeter, you will see no voltage
      4.
      If you have a 'max' (peak) feature on the digital voltmeter, select that, then you will see it blip to 11v or 12v every 10-15 seconds.
      It seems that the controller detects that there is no water pump attached and shuts off the 12v supply. This caused me grief so I thought I'd share.
      You can get around the fan controller shutting off the power by rigging in a brake light or turn signal light bulb into the circuit to give it something to detect as a load.
      (or just using that light as a tester in the first place, sometimes it's better to keep it simple and go oldschool.)

      BTW, it seems that the fan controller keeps 12v to the aux pump after the ignition is off and does not do this 'detection' routine, but only if there was a load when the ignition shut off...

    23. Member rigger's Avatar
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      11-21-2008 12:06 PM #73
      Did anyone find any brush replacements that work??
      I opened up my pump and all that is wrong with it is the brushes...

      thanks!
      Jeff.

    24. 11-21-2008 12:56 PM #74
      Quote, originally posted by 93SLCyasee »
      My pump currently started to sound like its gargling rocks. Gonna follow this DIY and clean it out as well.

      damn so thats what that noise is on that side. it seems to minimalize when i step on the clutch though. i geuss the impellar is whats making the squeakin noise also. i just replaced the main water pump a couple months ago.
      200k on the car.
      does it have anything to do with the clutch? cause when i step on the rock in a can sound goes away? is the clutch signaling pressure to the pump? the sound is right at that pump.
      can i run the car and pull the power supply to the sec. water pump for a minute to see if that is really where the noise is coming from?
      car has been making that noise for far to long... i always thought it was the chain guides.. go figure..

    25. Member rigger's Avatar
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      11-21-2008 11:39 PM #75
      Ok, I found some brushes that are almost exact matches. The only caviat is that the wire comes off the end instead of the top. I have a set and will try them out when my brushes totally die.
      check it out:
      RC Car brush: P94
      http://www3.towerhobbies.com/c...6&P=V
      INCLUDES: Two Epic P-94 brushes
      SPECS:
      Length: 7/16" (10mm)
      Width: 3/16" (5mm)
      Height: 3/16" (5mm)
      BTW, they were only $6 canadian... And less online

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