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    Thread: THE OFFICIAL X-FLOW SWAP POST!!!!!!

    1. 03-31-2002 06:36 PM #1
      There are alot of vortexers looking for info on the X-Flow swap. I was in the same boat before doing mine, so I've decided to make an offfical detailed post about it.

      Here is the basic info of what I started with.
      1995 OBD1 X-Flow motor (no doner car) $200
      The motor was basic no alternator or tensioners.I had to buy/borrow/ and steal alot of parts. go with the buy and borrow methods if your not confident in your ability to steal
      What I needed
      Alternator (Must be A3) $200
      power steering pump and bracket (MUST BE OFF OF AN A3) $20
      Water pump bracket (MUST BE A3) $Free
      A/C Delete pully (I ditched the A/C) $16
      MAF ($50 for both Coil, and MAF)
      Coil
      New spark plug wires (A2 wirers wont work) $78
      Wire harness (engine and fuel rail) get the VAG harness if you can but its not necessary. $150
      Gaskets (might as well)
      38 inch V belt for the alternator. If you do the A/C delete use this belt! It wont fit exactly but it will stretch on. 38.5 will fit good for about 4 days then it will touch, put the 38 on and let it stretch. beleive me I have 60 dollars worth of belts in my car that I have to return. $20
      ECU Stolen (sorry ma!)

      General notes
      Radiator: You can use the stock radiator with this setup. eliminate the long tube from the overflow bulb to the upper radiator and get the one from the A3 that goes from the back of the block to the overflow bulb. simply cap off the open end on the radiator

      Buy a clutch: You might as well go ahead and do this while its out. get a flywheel too if you can I bought mine from qualityvwparts.com. I love it!

      wiring: This is where the problems are, when the old harness goes out and the new one goes in there are only 4 or so harnesses that are being switched. when that is done there will not be enough power to the comp to make it power up and run the car you will need to tap into some power supplies, Ill post up later and tell you what color they are
      Also, there will be some wires that you wont use hook up everything else that you know of. again this is one of those things that I will have to get back to you on I do know this off the top of my head:
      1. use the alternator wires from your a3 (red and a little blue) place a small slide on terminal on the end of the old herness and stick it onto the BOTTOM pin of the alternator simply cut thesmall blue wire on the A3 HArness.
      2. there is also a singl red/black wire next to the blue alternator wire on the new harness. put a spade termainal into the single harness and connect it to the starter, this is your starter turn on wire.

      The downpipe
      I have a 1992 GTI 8V I used the downpipe that came with my car and the exhaust mani fron the new engine no spacer was needed to make this work, maybe thats only an issue for CIS cars. Im not sure but Im just happy that I didnt have to buy one.

      Ill update this as I remember if there are any questions email me or IM me and Ill include them into this post. HAVE FUN!!!

      Here is the link to the pictures of the swap. Feel free to look at my other albums while your in there





      Modified by X-FlowA2 at 4:07 PM 6-30-2003


    2. Member IwannaGTI's Avatar
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      03-31-2002 08:35 PM #2
      MAS is MAF (Mass Airflow Sensor) Right?

    3. Member IwannaGTI's Avatar
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      03-31-2002 08:37 PM #3
      forgot to ask...what was ur parts total of all the stuff u listed below minus trans stuff

    4. 03-31-2002 09:01 PM #4
      Sorry MAF is correct. In total I spent roughly 600-700 bucks. A friend at your local VW dealership, Some other VW buddies, and doing the work yourself are almost a must. You dont need these things but it makes the swap harder and more expensive without them I posted prices above.
      I have pics Ill post the link a little later. Play by Play



      [Modified by ilovemy92gti, 5:09 PM 3-31-2002]

    5. 04-01-2002 02:57 PM #5
      nicely done matt

      now someone sell him a turbo


    6. Member IwannaGTI's Avatar
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      04-01-2002 09:16 PM #6
      whats it take to fit an obd2 engine? What on an obd 2 engine will work on obd 1 and vice versa?


      Thanks

      Matt


    7. 04-02-2002 01:49 AM #7
      OBD 2 works almost the same with the exception of the throttle body. Ive heard that there are some clearance troubles. you simply turn it over from what I understand. Ill ask someone. Oh yeah Ive poted the link to my site so that everyone can see how things went. Oh yeah and if someone is sellin a turbo let me know!

    8. Member sirhc's Avatar
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      04-02-2002 02:20 AM #8
      quote:

      Alternator (Must be A3) $200
      power steering pump and bracket (MUST BE OFF OF AN A3) $20

      Are you sure? Not sure about swapping into a MkII, but I used all the stuff from my MkI for my swap. Just had to be a little creative with the pulley combination.

      Chris

    9. 04-02-2002 02:26 AM #9
      I have heard that the pully combo from a rabbit will do the trick. Im sure that there is more than one way to skin the cat but this is the way I did it. Plus I think in order to do the rabbit set up you need multiple pully's. I bought 1 pully and Im using 3 belts- the timong belt, a 38 inch serp. belt that goes from the crank to the waterpump and alt. and a pwer steering belt. How is yours set up? The Pwr steering definatly wont work from an A2, not too sure about the A1

    10. Member thf944's Avatar
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      04-02-2002 02:31 AM #10
      thanks for posting the list. i'm thinking of doing a 2.0 swap also. i would like to keep the ac though. is this hard to do on a 91 gti? also, if you are swapping the comlete motor, would you use all the accesories like ac and alt from the donor car or would you have to mix and match?

      thanks again for the info.
      thad

      Thad
      DCI - Rocky Mountain High
      2000 VW Golf GLS Indigo Blue
      1992 VW Golf GL Calypso Green

    11. 04-02-2002 02:36 AM #11
      The alt is a must. The bracket and alt from the A2 wont fit (clearance) Im sur A/C is a simple matter of plumbing although there is a trick to get it to work. Something to do with the housings, you have to make a hybrid thingy. I dont wanna speak on it because I want to give hard truth answers. Check around Ive seen a couple of posts that talk about what needs to be done to keep the AC.

    12. Member thf944's Avatar
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      04-02-2002 02:38 AM #12
      cool, thank you. btw, what do you think of your car with the swap? was it worth it? would you rather have a vr6 or 1.8t? or a neuspeed charger?


      [Modified by thf944, 11:39 PM 4-1-2002]
      Thad
      DCI - Rocky Mountain High
      2000 VW Golf GLS Indigo Blue
      1992 VW Golf GL Calypso Green

    13. 04-02-2002 02:51 AM #13
      Im not looking at this for the "now" Im lookin a little further down the line.A VR6 is great but is beatable with a turbo. plus I like the handling that my car delivers, I wanted to keep that. 300 HP is forseeable with some serious work. Thats more than enough for me. But to answer the question, I love it and wouldnt trade it. The power band isnt as spiky as the 8V or the 16V motors. When you put the motor in dont expect to beat those hondas just yet, you will only have another 5 -10 HP. With a little work 150HP isnt that far away. Im getting a chip, 260 cam, and cam gear in about 3 weeks or so. I figure Ill be up into the 140's or so. Do it dude you will love it! ALSO-Get a new fifth gear. I was racing a honda and hit the rev limiter yeasterday (5500 I think) at 105 MPH, pretty embarrassing. but I have a 8V GTI Close ratio tranny. When are you gonna do your swap?

    14. Member thf944's Avatar
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      04-02-2002 03:12 AM #14
      i'm thinking sometime this summer to do the swap. i'm having trouble deciding which way to go. i'm looking for a max of 200hp. its my daily driver so reliability is an issue. i plan on getting another porsche 944turbo later on and will make that my fast car ( maybe 400hp ).

      i'm also debating whether i'll have a shop do it or do it myself.

      Thad
      DCI - Rocky Mountain High
      2000 VW Golf GLS Indigo Blue
      1992 VW Golf GL Calypso Green

    15. Member thf944's Avatar
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      04-02-2002 03:24 AM #15
      here's what i've come up with so far (just estimates)

      vr6:$2200-3500=174hp stock + a little difficult to upgrade to 200hp but very do-able

      1.8t:$3000-5000=150-180hp stock + easy upgrades to 200hp

      2.0 x-flow: $400-800=115hp stock + neuspeed s/c $2400-2900=170hp, harder to get to 200 but lighter than vr6 and cheaper than 1.8t(slightly)

      this is not including labor if i have a shop do the work. the x-flow seems the easiest and the 1.8t the hardest and they are similar in wieght, the vr6 is more difficult than x-flow but easier than 1.8t but is heavier.

      well, it looks like the easiest way and almost the cheapest is the x-flow with s/c. plus i can do it in stages - engine first , then charger.

      Thad
      DCI - Rocky Mountain High
      2000 VW Golf GLS Indigo Blue
      1992 VW Golf GL Calypso Green

    16. 04-02-2002 12:01 PM #16
      just remeber one of the main differences, between OBDI and OBDII...the dual O2 sensors for cleaner emmisions. You must use the OBDII downpipe for an OBDII swap...seethe second O2 sensor...

      here is a OBDII harness to 91 GTI fuse box pic, the red/yellow wires on the left should be plugged into the red three pin block thing thats plugs into the fusebox, or use the existing CE2 jumper wire with two red clips...they are not shown on this pic cause I couldn't find em at the moment :

      here is a pic of an OBDII harness I am going to use:



      Modified by PAGTI91 at 6:59 AM 2-21-2004


    17. Member sirhc's Avatar
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      04-02-2002 03:14 PM #17
      Keep in mind that I'm not running power steering or A/C, but here's a pic of my belt setup (not the best, but you get the idea). I mixed and matched pulleys and brackets till I found something that I liked.

      Chris

    18. 04-02-2002 03:40 PM #18
      oh my, looks like turbo and custom intake...I AM shaking

    19. 04-02-2002 04:24 PM #19
      quote:
      The alt is a must. The bracket and alt from the A2 wont fit (clearance) Im sur A/C is a simple matter of plumbing although there is a trick to get it to work. Something to do with the housings, you have to make a hybrid thingy. I dont wanna speak on it because I want to give hard truth answers. Check around Ive seen a couple of posts that talk about what needs to be done to keep the AC.
      I wanted to keep my A/c as well when getting the swap done. The A2 alt was used, but as you mentioned it is a tight very tight fit and the right belt selection is not easy. I didn't do the swap myself but if you need more info on it i can get you in contact with the guy that did do it for me, (offline) just e-mail me.

      This swap is good for the price. Tranny tops out at 115 getting my fith gear conversion done soon.
      i have a few pics in my sig.

      Good luck on the swap


      [Modified by ALpHaMoNk_VW, 1:32 PM 11-11-2002]


    20. Member IwannaGTI's Avatar
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      04-02-2002 06:01 PM #20
      can i use the obd2 downpipe with an obd1 set up?

    21. 04-02-2002 10:32 PM #21
      ALPHAMOK! I feel ya brother! mine stoped at 105 I think. My 5th is comming soon as well. Nothin like finding out when racing the rice.

    22. Member Estate's Avatar
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      04-03-2002 01:36 AM #22
      Mmmmm, Nutty bars.

      Rob | A6 | GTI | Tiguan | JSW | Cabrio | Rabbit | 5+5

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      04-03-2002 01:39 AM #23
      ok I want to do this swap but now how do you change the x-flow to solid lifters, rather then hydraulic lifters? The reason to do that is to get a high reving fast car, hydraulic lifters max out at a certain RPM unlike the solid lifters, that can go on forever (well just about)



    24. 04-03-2002 11:01 AM #24


    25. Member sirhc's Avatar
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      04-03-2002 12:24 PM #25
      quote:

      That looks great all black like that.

      Chris

    26. 04-03-2002 02:37 PM #26
      quote:
      ALPHAMOK! I feel ya brother! mine stoped at 105 I think. My 5th is comming soon as well. Nothin like finding out when racing the rice.
      I cant wait for the new 5th. Question that i do have though. How did you wire up the tach? (I am no DIY guro-pics help me best) I am still running with no tach

    27. 04-03-2002 02:52 PM #27
      quote:
      That looks great all black like that.


      I think so, too. But, it FEELS even better due to the fact that it is an SC


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      04-03-2002 03:26 PM #28
      You can use the stock tach wire and put it onto one of the terminals on the power output stage. That's what I did and it's been working fine. I don't remember which terminal it is but you can check the wiring diagram in a bentley manual to see which one the tach was originally hooked up to.
      Later,
      Jason
      Lately I have been testing "tip-in events". Just the tip-in. Just to see how it feels. Response time is typically on the order of 2-3 seconds. Sometimes the injection timing is a little off...

    29. 04-03-2002 11:46 PM #29
      Im soooooooo jelouse. I WANNA A Super Charger!!!! The tach is something that I havent figured yet. What color is hte damn wire from the cluster?

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      04-04-2002 04:31 PM #30
      quote:
      just remeber one of the main differences, between OBDI and OBDII...the dual O2 sensors for cleaner emmisions. You must use the OBDII downpipe for an OBDII swap...seethe second O2 sensor...

      wait a sec...do you have to use the OBDII exhaust mani if you're doing a stand-alone system? i plan on going for broke (literally) and doing a custom turbo setup on mine, and i'm only beginning to comprehend what kind of b!tch this is going to be....but so much fun when it's over!


    31. 04-04-2002 06:22 PM #31
      depends how your stand-alone reads the O2 sensor(s). If it needs two O2 sensors I would get the OBDII downpipe...

    32. 04-05-2002 04:09 AM #32
      So the crossflow engine harness plugs into the A2 fusebox with no problems? How about on the A1 chassis?

    33. 04-05-2002 09:07 AM #33
      to the CE2 A2's! Like 90 and up. You have to splice into the A1...


      [Modified by PAGTI91, 5:09 AM 10-26-2002]

    34. 04-06-2002 10:49 PM #34
      New questions from me (posting under friends name i am really iwannagti)
      Do i need new motor mounts? Or can i use the existing ones?
      Do i need any special tools for the swap?
      Where do i get a MAF cheap?
      Where do i get a harness cheap?
      I Already have an ecu lined up its from a 94...will that work with an obd1 system?

    35. 04-07-2002 04:53 PM #35
      The comp will work fine
      You can use your motor mounts, but you must use the back bracket from the A2 motor.
      You can get a MAF from somebody on the vortex or your local Junk yard
      No special tools are needed, but you must have tools. Air tools are a great asset to the project, almost nessesary
      Did I answer the questions?

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