VR6 coilpack atlernative

[Cubix]

Quote, originally posted by blu_mk2 »

Hi, Does anyone have a diagram with the resistor installed, or can show/tell me where exactly the resistor should be installed, AND since i've never bought a resistor before which one do i need exactly? Thanks!!

Sorry for the delay, simply attach the resistor (1ohm from radioshack) to the 15 post on the ICM, and then wire from there

Quote, originally posted by o2bad455 »

I noticed that the 98-99 and 00-05 Passat V6 seems to use a coilpack that has 3 separate 2-prong coils on it. Has anyone tried adapting one of those?

Isn't that the normal coilpack? It's three sets of 2 post coils in one pack. Post some pics

Modified by Cubix at 7:36 PM 2-9-2007

[Fast929]

As I am struggling with a similar issue with the wife's VR, I picked up some MSD coils and I am working on the install this weekend.

Few questions, are you guys hard wiring the power/grounds off the ICM to the coils? Meaning, soldering to the ICM posts shown in the diagram on the first page? If not, how are you wiring this?

Also on the resistor, what is the need? Just trying to understand. 1ohm seems pretty small...???

Anything else I should know going in? I worked up a nice alum mount but it sounds like I should be isolating the coils from the bracket, yes?

Much thanks for the help in advance...
Eric

[Cubix]

Well,
The resistor is just to try and prevent the coils from bruning up in the event of a failure.

And YES, you have to isolate the coils from the bracket, to help with this, I found some MSD coil mounts that they produce, pre wired you just snap in and bolt down, takes all the fuss away.

I have 2 coils hardwired, and one conected with spade connectors (because I had to keep replacing it due to a bad ICM)

good luck and let us know how it goes

[o2bad455]

Quote, originally posted by Cubix »

Isn't that the normal coilpack? It's three sets of 2 post coils in one pack. Post some pics

Nope, it looks different than the VR6 pack. Here's a pic of the Passat V6 00-05 coilpack. I can't find a pic of the 98-99 version, but I think it's just the connector shape that's different (if anything).

http://yibon.en.alibaba.com/of....html

[Cubix]

Ohhhh!
Thats the same pack they use on the v6 audis, and from what I here, is alot stronger and lasts longer then our oem coil packs, infact, some people mod that pack onto the earlier vr6s.

however, to answer your question, I'm going to say yes, the MSD packs would be able to replace those coils, just pull of the icm and wire it up correctly and you should be golden.

[jamesn67]

Just find out if these coils include the "icm"/power output stage in them or if it is external. I think these have the power output stage
built in. If they do you would just need a different MSD coil than the
ones us VR6 folks are using. MSD does make coils that include this.

[Cubix]

Which coils include this?
I wonder if they are 3 wire (+,- and signal)
because then...
WE CAN ELIMINATE THE ICM!!!!
yay

[jamesn67]

MSD sells a bunch of single post coils that have it integrated.

Not sure if the VW dual coils shown above are integrated or not.
I just can't see the icm in that pic so I figured I'd mention it.

If those are the same as the Audi V6 ones another place to look
is 034motorsports.com as they offer performance Audi coil options.

[onebdgti]

Was just wondring if anybody has tried MSD #8870.
Just wondering what the 4 wires comming off of the interface are for.

Also I just finished building my bracket lasy weekend and didn't put a capacitor
on # 15 terminal, was just wondering if it was really necessary.
Cause Cubix has stated that he installed it so that it would not fry the coils
if the ICM fails. Just wondering if this actually works.
By the way even though the coils and bracket are done its been too damn cold to
install them yeat.

[Cubix]

No, no one has used 8870 yet (that I know about), and we definitely want to hear about how it goes. I found it rather recently, last month, and mentioned it in the original post. Only two of the 4 wires are necessary and the instructions should be explained in the manual.

I don't know if the resistor actually does anything, but i guess it's an attempt to prevent what happend to me, I blew 4 msd coils before diagnosing a bad icm. oi

[onebdgti]

Well I just e-mailed MSD about #8870 to find out exactly what the 4 wires are
used for. Cause I know that one is positive, negative, and one is for reference
but just wondering what the fourth wire is for. Cause this could be our cure for
the ICM. When I hear something back from MSD I will let you all know.

[Cubix]

I don't believe that they act as a second stage power output, nor do they that the relay system included, I think it's for the GM cars that have 4 wire coils

but lets wait for the response anyways.

Theres no simple way to cut out the icm

[onebdgti]

http://i157.photobucket.com/al...0.jpg

hopefully this will help so far from what I see it won't replace the icm.

[onebdgti]

[Cubix]

Whoa
I like it

[jamesn67]

Glad you like it Silentdub! Did you have to pay for it or were you able to secure a deal?

[silentdub]

Quote, originally posted by jamesn67 »

Glad you like it Silentdub! Did you have to pay for it or were you able to secure a deal?

Let's not go there, I don't want them to lock Cubix's thread.

I didn't steal them in case anyone is wondering.

[silentdub]

Quote, originally posted by onebdgti »

I don't believe that this unit takes the place of the module, if it does, then it would be for a GM car right?

I would check with MSD before connecting it to the ECU.

[FourSeasonTuning.com]

Hope you dont mind me posting( mods should not lock this as Im a paying advertiser).

I can offer a high quality spark plug wire set for the application in 8mm. Using OE german made Bremi metal ends and GM type boots for the pin type coils mentioned in this thread. The leads can be made longer if needed just let me know the additional length desired if any. Colors available Red, Blue, Yellow and Black.

I prefer the MK3 type end's even on the MK4 as well. The wires are the same length for both, Just no outer plastic puller's. No external plastic except the upper boot. Downside is purchasing a Tool, But these are the better ends of the two styles.

Here is a kit for $120 shipped with the tool.

8MM MK3 MK4 Ignition Wire Set W/GM Ends & Tool $120 shipped

8MM MK3 MK4 Ignition WireSet W/GM Ends $105 shipped

8MM MK4 Ignition WireSet W/GM Ends $105 shipped

MSD Bracket $80 shipped

$17.99 shipped when purchased w/ wire set

Spark plug boot removal tool works on MK3 and MK4 style ends. A MK3 wire set will work on a MK4. The only difference is the pull type connectors would not be used ( the leads are the same length).

Visa Mastercard Discover and American Express can be accepted via Paypal
without registration.California residents will be charged 7.75 sales tax.

www.FourSeasonTuning.com

The current site only has a fraction of the parts listed that we carry.Please contact us if the items you seek are not on the site. Competitive pricing, Fast shipping, If you see a lower price let us know, chances are we can work with you.

Questions at 714-997-5842
Email is better than IM
sales(AT)fourseasontuning.com*

Thanks for looking.
James
AKA wld101turkey

Prices edited as supplier is charging a $5.00 drop ship fee. These are still $10.00 less than the 8MM with the standard coil end.

Modified by FourSeasonTuning.com at 6:09 PM 8-7-2008

[jamesn67]

Now that should def. make this an easier option for some folks for
sure

Cubix, you running the MSD's again or still stock?

Any failures yet with the resistor?

[Cubix]

Now that is cool!!!

Thank you VERY MUCH!!! I think I'll pick up a set in the spring.
Now their is a company thinking about it's customer base!

I'm still running OEM, it is WAY WAY WAY to cold to do work on my car, and I don't have a garage to do the work in, so all projects have been put on hold. So my 500 mile test turned into well over 2000, with and avg of 21.5mpg

But amazingly, yesterday was 50 out, instead of the late 20s and my MPG went up ~4mpg, just shows how rich my engine runs when it's completely freezing outside. I was getting worried when I was getting barely 200 per tank.

[Cubix]

I Pm'd fourseasons asking all the important questions

Quote, originally posted by Cubix »

Have these ends been tested on fitting the accel/msd packs already? Looking at the photos, are those just the stock wires shown, not with the HEI ends? And also, is it possible to get them custom length, or has it been successfully wired on a set up with MSD packs mounted in the (now seems common) stock position of the coil pack, because this is a small difference in positions of the terminals, which may cause the wires not to reach appropriately.

I will let you know the answers I recieve, I would want this information clarified before any fitmint issues arise.

And I'm SO buying a set

[jhayesvw]

Please do not mention ANY brackets in this thread.

unless you post up one you made yourself and ARE NOT SELLING ANY.

thanks

[jamesn67]

Quote, originally posted by jhayesvw »

Please do not mention ANY brackets in this thread. unless you post up one you made yourself and ARE NOT SELLING ANY. thanks

No one has I believe. Only fourseasons has mentioned plug wires and they are advertisers so it should be ok...but who knows.

[Cubix]

Word on Wires:

With the weather looking better, I'm going to throw my MSD packs in tomorrow (granted I find the time ofcourse)

here is my conversation with fourseason

Quote »

FourSeasonTuning.com (1:10 PM 2-21-2007): those are reg ends shown. I have supplied custom length coil wires for 16v guys using gm or ford type coils mounted in a different area. what length did you want? FourSeasonTuning.com (1:12 PM 2-21-2007): these are made to order. Cubix (1:20 PM 2-21-2007): Well, I'm keeping my coils in the standard coil position, so as long as it fits that, it'll be good. Hopefully if it isn't too cold, I'll do some measurements. What is the standard lengths you're shipping these at? FourSeasonTuning.com (1:32 PM 2-21-2007): I can measure a standard set for you. I have not sold any of these yet for this app but i know they will work as long as we get the length right when using a standard bracket. FourSeasonTuning.com (1:35 PM 2-21-2007): If someone was mocking this up using a standard wire they could tell us how much more length is needed ( if needed?). I would have done this mod if needed but my slc has a dist. Cubix (11:41 PM 2-22-2007): I will measure my MSD wires tomorrow and purchase a set @ those lengths, then we can 'fine tune' it look stock

As most of you know, I've taken this project to heart, buying 7 ( ) MSD coils and burning out 3 because of that damn icm, so yea, I'm crazy

[jamesn67]

Cubix you could also try IM'ing wallra as I believe he used stock wires with gm ends and a similar style bracket. His lengths might be good
enough.

[silentdub]

Quote, originally posted by FourSeasonTuning.com »

Hope you dont mind me posting( mods should not lock this as Im a paying advertiser). I can offer a high quality spark plug wire set for the application in 8mm. Using OE german made Bremi metal ends and GM type boots for the pin type coils mentioned in this thread. The leads can be made longer if needed just let me know the additional length desired if any. Colors available Red, Blue, Yellow and Black. 8MM MK3 Ignition WireSet W/GM Ends $100 shipped 8MM MK4 Ignition WireSet W/GM Ends $100 shipped $17.99 shipped when purchased w/ wire set Spark plug boot removal tool works on MK3 and MK4 style ends. A MK3 wire set will work on a MK4. The only difference is the pull type connectors would not be used ( the leads are the same length). Visa Mastercard Discover and American Express can be accepted via Paypal without registration.California residents will be charged 7.75 sales tax. http://www.FourSeasonTuning.com The current site only has a fraction of the parts listed that we carry.Please contact us if the items you seek are not on the site. Competitive pricing, Fast shipping, If you see a lower price let us know, chances are we can work with you. Questions at 714-997-5842 Email is better than IM sales(AT)fourseasontuning.com* Thanks for looking. James AKA wld101turkey

RAAAAAAAMONE!

There are a lot of people that don't/can't crimp the universal wire sets. I have a post going on vwfixx.com, I will let those guys know that you have these wire sets.

That is of course if you don't mind some extra business

[silentdub]

Thinking of it now, all we need is a wire harness and this could be a 100% plug n play upgrade.

I told paul that I would work on a harness, but looking at what needs to be done, it is easy, but I don't think that I can make it professional enough to make it easy to install.

The coils can use a simple spade connector, but there is nothing to keep it from falling out of the coil, I would need some type of spade connector that has a locking tab similar to a phone cord or network cable.

If anyone has any ideas, I am all ears. Maybe I can fab one up and then give it to some company to make.

I don't even know who does that type of fab work.

Any ideas?

[silentdub]

Quote, originally posted by jamesn67 »

Now that should def. make this an easier option for some folks for sure Cubix, you running the MSD's again or still stock? Any failures yet with the resistor?

I have no failures with the resistor, I am running a 1.3 ohm resistor now, and after I take some measurements, I may go lower.

[jamesn67]

the MSD resistor I have is 0.8 ohm if I recall correctly.

As for the wire connections. Certainly a spade with a nut and bolt
would work but I'd be worried about it coming loose.

Let me IM a2b4guy as he does a lot of electircal work mayb he
can point us to some other type of connector that would make this
more plug and play.

[silentdub]

Quote, originally posted by jamesn67 »

the MSD resistor I have is 0.8 ohm if I recall correctly. As for the wire connections. Certainly a spade with a nut and bolt would work but I'd be worried about it coming loose. Let me IM a2b4guy as he does a lot of electircal work mayb he can point us to some other type of connector that would make this more plug and play.

That is just one side of the connector, we still need to connect it to the coil without having it fall out when you hit a bump.

I soldered mine up and that works great, but not everyone can/will do that.

The bracket if mounted as most are, only gives a little room to connect it to the ICM, I would hate to have someone screw that up.

[jamesn67]

Best idea for connecting on the coil side would be to fab something
similar to the MSD adapter that could be fastened in place.

Yes, unfortunately not a lot of room of the icm tangs unless you
install it upside down like that one person did.

[silentdub]

Quote, originally posted by jamesn67 »

Best idea for connecting on the coil side would be to fab something similar to the MSD adapter that could be fastened in place. Yes, unfortunately not a lot of room of the icm tangs unless you install it upside down like that one person did.

Ok, That could be easy. Soldering some terminals to a bread board and some connectors, then it can be sandwhiched between the bracket and coils.

At that point, mount the ICM upside down and use a little bolt with a nylon threaded nut to keep it from falling off. Sime heat schrink tube and they are golden.

Unless there is a connector style that will plug in to the ICM. I have to look at it now.

[jhayesvw]

now you guys are talking.

if there was an adapter harness, this setup could be as easy to install as the factory stuff.

then it would be good for the masses.

[silentdub]

Quote, originally posted by jhayesvw »

now you guys are talking. if there was an adapter harness, this setup could be as easy to install as the factory stuff. then it would be good for the masses.

That is what I am saying. It is people like us that come up with the idea, and then people like BRAND X and fourseason to take notice and fab stuff up to market a product to the demand.

When I did this install, and fabricated the bracket and harness, I was expecting a few die hard people to ask me for stuff, but it got to a point that I simply couldn't make enough brackets to keep up with demand.

Making stuff by hand is great, but when you need to make up 50 of the same item in a week, that is where the CNC comes in. The CNC can crank brackets out all day.

I was thinging of making the harness, but I know I won't be able to make enough of them, so I will try to prototype it and let someone else make them.

The best thing about this type of mod is quite simple, it is a change that you can feel. It can also save a few bucks too.

There is no need to look at dyno results, and compare to other people and get slanged by advertising, with this mod, you hook it up get in the car and clearly notice the difference over stock.

Modified by silentdub at 6:07 PM 2-23-2007


Modified by jhayesvw at 6:11 PM 2-23-2007