VR6 coilpack atlernative

[Cubix]

it's basically like a relay, I think I explained it a few posts ago, but I always try to find a way to simplify my explination.

The ECU simply sends 'on' signals, in the form of a +5v burst to the ICM.
On the ICM end, every coil has constant power to is (+12v), and each post is a (-) ground.
When the ICM receives the +5v burst, it opens a relay that links the Neg post, to the Neg pin on the ICM.

I'll try to work up an animation for it.

I kind of have this theory that we can completely pull out the ICM and replace it with some relays... that would be awesome

[kevwithoutacorrado]

yeah, I get exactly what your saying - that answered my question.

I agree - it seems like there would be an easy way to bypass the stock icm using nice little solid state relays or something.

[Cubix]

I wonder how much the icm increases the voltage.

[kevwithoutacorrado]

in other words whats the lowest voltage required to drive the coil and provide enough output still? or...

[Cubix]

how much we would need to amp up the voltage so we can phase out the icm

[kevhayward]

Any idea what coil-on-time the Stock ECU is pushing out?

I have asked MSD what duration they recommend for the 8224 GM towers and they suggest 2000 microseconds. I don't think timing is the problem though, but it's nice to know what MSD themselves recommend.

I did also ask what the optimum supply current is for the 8224s, but they omitted to answer that.

We've been conducting tests in the UK with these coils and we have found that the VW ICM is just not good enough for the MSDs.

A development amplifier is currently in testing and I should find out how it's going in the next week or two. Early signs are encouraging.

The obvious advantages to a custom amp are a neater coil install, no need for ballasting and both stock and standalone ECUs can use it.

I'll keep you posted.

[jamesn67]

Now that would be fantastic! Please keep us posted.

[VertigoGTI]

Quote, originally posted by jamesn67 »

Now that would be fantastic! Please keep us posted.

+1

[Cubix]

-7!
muhahaha

So.... apparently I burned 4 coils!!!!! haha
I got everything together, and it started misfiring again, so right away I was like, oh no not again, but the misfire was only on cyl 6. so I swapped wires (1 & 6) tried again, now the misfire was on cyl 1, solution, throwing in a new msd coil (my very last one) and wa-lah, it works wonderfully. The one I had in there was used on the burned ICM, and I guess even though it did not crack, it damaged it enough not to work.

So my bad ICM took out 4 coils in total

To all of you who didn't follow my problems in the previous threads, ignore what I said above
I had previous problems with a bad ICM, and I refuse to realize it until I blew 200 dollars of msd coils, don't worry, we won't let that happen to all of you doing this project.

The new msd coils are in, and I finally got it running smoothly, thanks to the help of fourseasons it's working great, and once I add the wire spacers it'll be looking great too!

I have tons of pics and information, however, the old company i worked for that I am secretly running my website off of found out and shut down my webspace, so I might need a new place to host them.


Modified by Cubix at 2:41 PM 3-14-2007

[VertigoGTI]

Did it blow with the resistor in line?

[Cubix]

Nah this was pre-resistor times

[Cubix]

Sent the pics to fourseason for hosting, hopefully the diy will be up tomorrow

Pic requests, anyone doing the wiring send me the pics so I can include. I reused the old wiring I had, so it's next clear cut step by step, but I'll do my best to explain

[Jefnes3]

Quote, originally posted by kevhayward »

Any idea what coil-on-time the Stock ECU is pushing out? .

The M2.9 and M5.9 calculation is too convoluted for me to reverse enginner fully.
Its based on deg of crank rotation so actual dwell time is a function of
engine RPM.

The ME7 stuff: 1.7ms at cruze/idle, ramping up to 2.1ms at WOT.

-Jeff

[jamesn67]

Yeah, I think to get rid of the ICM you would need a standalone.
I think we are stuck with it.

The question is why would the MSD's not be ok with the dwell times
that the ICM puts out while the stock ones are?

[Cubix]

Well, if the msd coil charges up faster, it would need a shorter dwell time and possibly overcharge?

In any instance, 300 mi on my new set up, wires work excellent, took it to the shop to be inspected, emissions went through with a breeze, and they were so over my set up

[jamesn67]

Quote, originally posted by Cubix »

In any instance, 300 mi on my new set up, wires work excellent, took it to the shop to be inspected, emissions went through with a breeze, and they were so over my set up

Quote, originally posted by Cubix »

Well, if the msd coil charges up faster, it would need a shorter dwell time and possibly overcharge?

Yes, but this would be the case in the GM application as well. Or any of their applications for that matter. I just keep scratching my head over this. I need to find the answer to this...it's realling bugging me.

[Cubix]

Major update to first thread.
Major as in DIY is up!

Thank James @ fourseason for helping us out with the project!

With the wires in place, the set up looks easily professional, and no more cutting and crimping our own from a universal kit.
Hopefully we can get more people into this project!


Modified by Cubix at 2:02 PM 3-18-2007

[jamesn67]

Thanks for putting the DIY together Cubix

[Cubix]

No problem

I'm thinking of turning the coils around to face in rather then out, might make the wiring look better then wrapping around the outside of the coils. Since all the posts are in a straight line, you can't do the 'staggerd' look without them bumping into each other.

hmm....

I'll think about it and take some more shots with what I decided.

[poopooplatter]

this is a great thread.

My MSD is FINALLY going in today.

I've been waiting months to put it on.

[Cubix]

Let us know,
you have a turbo installed right?

[poopooplatter]

Quote, originally posted by Cubix »

Let us know, you have a turbo installed right?

yep.

and just dynoed it this past weekend.....so i'll bring it back next weekend and see the difference....if any at all.

[Cubix]

You are now my favorite
haha
sweet.

Remember to play with the plug gaps to. ".05 should be good, but up it in ".005 incremints to see what works best for your application, we haven't focused on it too much this thread.

[poopooplatter]

Quote, originally posted by Cubix »

You are now my favorite haha sweet. Remember to play with the plug gaps to. ".05 should be good, but up it in ".005 incremints to see what works best for your application, we haven't focused on it too much this thread.

I know that im at .022 or something now........is that big of a jump in the gap going to be smart??

I guess we'll start at .035 and work from there.

[Cubix]

the .05" comes from other people who have gapped their plugs higher with the MSD packs in the last thread we had.

I don't remember who exactly, but one of the guys started from oe gap and went as high as .06", which is when he started getting misfires.

So .05 should work, but definitely start low and work up, with the greater gap and spark, you should be able to see a nice difference.

[poopooplatter]

Quote, originally posted by Cubix »

the .05" comes from other people who have gapped their plugs higher with the MSD packs in the last thread we had. I don't remember who exactly, but one of the guys started from oe gap and went as high as .06", which is when he started getting misfires. So .05 should work, but definitely start low and work up, with the greater gap and spark, you should be able to see a nice difference.

I'm excited.

[-Zero-]

Nice job Cubix. I'm looking forward to giving this a shot.

[Cubix]

No problem

Still working on running the plug wires a little better, but now I'm on the road for work so I have to wait until I'm home next week.

I'm trying to find a 6 to 4 wire harness, maybe get one custom made, or if anything I'll work on getting those produced w/resistor as well.

Oh, and just incase anyone does need a new coilpack
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...d=1,1

[VR6_00Jetta]

[QUOTE=Cubix]Major update to first thread.
Major as in DIY is up!

Thank James @ fourseason for helping us out with the project!

QUOTE]
Is the DIY still up? I can't find it at Four Seasons or in Gary's (VgRt6)

[Cubix]

Quote, originally posted by VR6_00Jetta »

[QUOTE=Cubix]Major update to first thread. Major as in DIY is up! Thank James @ fourseason for helping us out with the project! QUOTE] Is the DIY still up? I can't find it at Four Seasons or in Gary's (VgRt6)

Well it wouldn't be in Garys because I wrote it
Check the first page of this thread

[VR6_00Jetta]

Duh.

Beauty!

It's been so long since I'd been back to the beginning (between this thread and the 1st one.) You musta' snuck it in

Thanks, Cubix!

[Ryan Sickles]

Cubix, is there a specific reason you mounted the coils that way instead of flipping them?

I think I'm going to get the MSD coils on the road again, finally....been doing too many things at once.


Modified by Ryan Sickles at 9:28 PM 3-19-2007

[Cubix]

Quote, originally posted by Ryan Sickles »

Cubix, is there a specific reason you mounted the coils that way instead of flipping them?

Nope, infact, I'm thinking of turning them around so the wires won't need to go around the coils and such. And I can easily do it because of the spade connectors, making for easy replacement if/when necessary.

[thai vr6]

I've been following this thread for a while. Thank you very much for DIY write ups.

I'm curious whether there is a way to check whether the ICM is bad besides blown coils. I'd be nice to know it before installing MSDs.

[poopooplatter]

Quote, originally posted by thai vr6 »

I've been following this thread for a while. Thank you very much for DIY write ups. I'm curious whether there is a way to check whether the ICM is bad besides blown coils. I'd be nice to know it before installing MSDs.

I've heard of some people that are using resistors.