Current News on the "New" Scirocco (Feb.06.2007)

[Shawna]

Quote, originally posted by 3rdtry »

Now that is x10 better then anything I have seen from VW in over 20 years!

Haha, I completly agree with you. IMO the only vechicle produced by VW in the last 20 years that I really liked was the 337( and the Corrado). Sadly they are few and far between, so I may never get the chance to own one. I just hope that VW strives to take a more aggressive approach in the future. Instead now being a follower in the US, as compaired to other imports, they should find that passion for true cars as seen from the VW of the past. The Scirocco is a step in the right direction for VW. However, not bringing it to the states is a shame. Why not ship a limited amount over to atleast test the waters. What harm whould it do to send 1000 Scirocco's over here?

[6cylVWguy]

Quote, originally posted by Shawna »

What harm whould it do to send 1000 Scirocco's over here?

Because it costs thousands, if not millions of dollars to bring a new car over here. Look how expensive the R32 is! 1000 new "rocco's" would be cost prohibitive.

[sciroccokartei]

Hi,

look after my personal Iroc/Scirocco3 changes here

http://www.sciroccokartei.de/html/genf/index4.html

[Colamjam]

Do you have an "english switch" on your web site?

[EUROROC]

Quote, originally posted by vwfly »

Wake up and smell 2008!!! My first VW was an 80 Scirocco and I absolutely loved that car, I loved the 90 Corrado that replaced it!!!!! Let's think back to when the Corrado replaced the Scirocco shall we. A history lesson to those whom might have forgotten!

The Corrado replaced the Scirocco in this country... the two models where both offered side by side in Europe. The Scirocco was discontinued in 1992

Quote, originally posted by vwfly »

"Oh, it's just a rebadged Scirocco!"

It was... the original plan, as I understand it, was for this model to replace the Scirocco but sales were still strong and VW could not sell both with the same name hense the new name Corrado. For the US market it would cost too much to bring both in so they dropped the Scirocco.

Quote, originally posted by vwfly »

So there it was, god forbid the forums were going crazy over "How in the world could VW kill off the Scirocco!!" Everyone said, "Oh the Corrado, is just a squished down GTI", thats how VW was positioning it. Truth be told, VW was trying to break into a new concept the Scirocco could not do, give VW a performance minded vehicle. We knew they had a "Hot Hatch" but it wasn't sexy by a common mans eye. I remember seeing all the wiz bang pyrotechnics VW was trying to use to convince people they had built a true "pure" sports car. "It's build on it's own platform" they said. Has an "active" spoiler for more down force. blah, blah, blah.... In the end VW killed off a car that could have evolved from the Scirocco/Corrado time and really built something cool. Truth be told, VW just couldn't keep the prices inline with it's competition but more importantly it kept having to restrain itself from god forbid, making a faster, sexy, more pure sports car then the GTI! From what I read they are about to do it again!!!

"Everybody"? not me... I like the Corrado and think it made a fine next gen Scirocco... look at it. It's an evolution of its predecessor . Same basic shape but more modern. Granted it had issues and a lack of support since many in the US blamed it for the discontinued importation of the Scirocco but what are you going to do. My belief is that if the Corrado was badge Scirocco in the US it would have sold a lot better and more loved.

Quote, originally posted by vwfly »

I think this New Scirocco is what I could picture an evolved Scirocco by modern day standards to be. I like the ideas they claim to have in the car and I believe if they do an R32-R36 variant they could have a big hit on their hands..... I'd be the first person standing outside the dealership to sign up for one.

IMHO you are completely wrong... there is no evolution here just re-use. There is nothing in the "New" Scirocco that reminds me of the mkI or mkII... it's modern, I'll give you that, but it's a modern new model.

Look at the New Mini... it's far from being a Mini in every possible way (it's huge in comparison) but if you show it to some one who owned one years ago he/she will have warm thoughts of driving their little car fast when they were younger. Look at the new Beetle... I'm not an air cooled guy but when I see one I remember Concept 1 and how my reaction was "Wow, that's what a new modern beetle would look like"... The American manufacturers are doing it too...

What I'm saying is that this abomination is an insult to the name... call it anything else and I think it will get a warmer reception. What I think is going to happen is that if VW brings it to the US many of the reviews are going to be positive for it's performance but negative as compared to the originals and eventually it will tank due to poor sales. (fingers crossed).

-Raffi


Modified by EUROROC at 12:56 PM 3-10-2008

[Doug T]

I see that many folks have opinions about car body names and the Scirocco's history. I offer this detailed document as a point of reference.

I have traveled the US and Europe attending many VW related events. I own three Scirocco at this time.Two of my Sciroccos are race cars and one is a street driver. I have had many others. I worked for a car design studio in the 1980's doing market research and conceptual car styling. On a regular basis people who are very involved with cars talk to me about the New Scirocco's design and ask me what is going on with it. I know the people that were used to do the marker research for the new Scirocco project.

I personally have talked to the builders and the development and tooling engineers that worked on the Karmann Ghia, Scirocco MK1, Scirocco MK2 and Corrado. They know Giugiaro and they know cars. I have recorded interviews of Giugiaro discussing the design of the MK1s. According to the real car guys the type 53 (Scirocco) platform is a Karmann coupe. The type 17 (Golf) platform is a hatch back (FWD sedan with the trunk removed). The Golf was designed as a 4 door and a 3 door hatch back. The Scirocco is a 3 door coupe. The Scirocco's roof is shorter and the rear glass is longer making it a coupe. Giugiaro attempted to make the Golf's windshield less upright (more like the Scirocco that was designed first) but the US required it to be more upright for certification.

The MK1 Golf and MK1 Scirocco have family styling, This is because Giugiaro was given the design responsibility for both cars and VW agreed that Giugiaro 's work was not to be altered or questioned. Karmann did make several changes to the MK1 Scirocco however. The Scirocco was the first A1 and Karmann's tool makers worked with Giugiaro directly on the Scirocco and many other projects including the Ace series for Audi and BMW. The Scirocco's tail is an example of a change that Karmann made. VW wanted the Scirocco to have a tail spoiler that Giugiaro did not include in the design. VW started drawing up some tack on spoilers and Will Schwebe of Karmann built a full size hatch with the small spoiler and reverse bend on the surface that the badges sit on and he presented to VW. The change was incorporated into the MK1 Scirocco.
.
If you want to say that the Scirocco is squashed I can see how you may think that but the Scirocco is a coupe and its design language stems from work that Giugiaro did for Maserati. A true squashed Golf would have a longer roof and a short hatch like the new Scirocco. Ask the people who designed the cars.

The MK2 Scirocco is a stretched A1 and it has BMW styling. The original design inspiration for the MK2 Scirocco came from a study that was done by Giugiaro / Karmann for BMW. The newly formed VW design used the BMW style against Giugiaro's wishes. So I say the Scirocco 2 is in no way a squashed Golf. The Scirocco MK2 design is confusing

VW wanted to rebuild it self and started an in-house design team headed up by Herbert Schafer. VW wanted to move the brand up scale and distance them selves from the Bug and the hard times of the shift to the Audi water cooled cars. The Scirocco MK1 felt inexpensive. The Scirocco 1 was known internally at VW as a Type 53, the Scirocco 2 was known as a Type 53b.

Two basic requirements applied to the re-design: a more aerodynamic body as well as more room for passengers and luggage. The work for the Scirocco 2 began at the end of 1976, and in the middle of 1977 several larger models were put together.

GG was fond of the MK1 and wanted the MK2 to look more like the MK1 Scirocco because the MK1 was a new classic. GG had been consulting with VW on face lifts. Herbert Schafer wanted the GG designed Karmann-BMW's "Asso di Quadri" design for his own. (the BMW design was a GG study that predates the Isusu) The contest began. VW had 5 short-listed proposals for the Mk2 Scirocco from different designers both in-house and out. Giugaro submitted 2 that looked like the MK1 with some updates and VW design led by Herbert Schafer submitted 3 that looked more like the Corrado and the MK2 Scirocco. Other designers like the highly individualistic Italian/Swiss/Polish designer Luigi Colani submitted designs, but they didn't make the cut. As Mr. Herbert Schafer recalls (director of VW Design) the "Product Strategie Kommission" (PSK) made the decision to go with the MK2 design on strictly objective grounds. Prof. Fiala was the chairman of the PSK and responsible for selecting all five short listed design studies. To make the pick of the crop democratic, all designs were painted the same color and finished to the same standards, and the committee at VW responsible for picking the Mk2 were not told who was responsible for each design. The chosen design looked much like the MK2 production car and BMW/Ace however VW had to call in Giugaro to re-pen the proportions on VW's design. You can say that GG designed the BMW and VW took the design and changed it and then made GG fix the design and then VW's Herbert Schafer would finish it.

The new design was to be a VW design with fixed proportions on paper by Giugiaro and would have improved aerodynamics, reduced lift, and more head room at the rear. The VW design would employ the best use of interior space for both luggage and passengers and attractive styling, while having to work with the constraints of the A1 chassis.

The MK2 is built on top of the same A1 chassis as the 1981 MK1 Scirocco. You can see the extensions in the trunk floor in the 1982 Scirocco. The body was extended to make the MK2 6.5 longer than the MK1 and the luggage capacity was increased by 20%. The headroom was increased by 0.4 up front and 0.7 in the rear. The Scirocco's 2+2 coachwork is lower and sportier than the other cars in VW's lineup. Volkswagen is the owner of one of Europe's largest wind tunnels and is justifiably proud of their results in aerodynamic research. The Scirocco is one of the stars of that research. The early Scirocco MK1 versions offered distinct advantages over the MK1 Golfs through a smaller frontal area (in most part from the lower roof line), but the second generation Scirocco is the result of much fine-tuning in the wind tunnel. Despite a longer length and improved interior headroom, the extensive use of the wind tunnel in the design process allowed VW to improve the Cd figure from 0.42 on the Scirocco 1 to 0.38 on the Scirocco 2.

Giugiaro’s rejected versions of the Scirocco MK2 were much more in keeping with the design direction set for VWs product catalog and looked more like the MK1 Scirocco. The Asso di Quadri has BMW styling and so does the MK2 Scirocco. The MK2 Scirocco is a misfit in the visual language of VW set by Giugiaro. This is why the rejected Giugiaro designs for the MK2 Scirocco look nothing like the Ace BMW or Ace Isuzu but did look like the MK1 Scirocco and all the other VWs. It was VW that choose the BMW design as the pattern to become the MK2.

So what about the 3rd Scirocco? The third Scirocco is the Corrado. It is true, the Corrado is a Scirocco by design but the name was changed because the car was too expensive for the market. When Wolsburg saw the Scirocco 3's cost over run a call was made to Karmann and they were told to make the final set of tooling for the MK2 Scirocco (production 88-92).The MK2 Scirocco was to be discontinued when the Scirocco 3 (Corrado) was released. The MK2 Scirocco continued up to 1992 and was built at Karmann as the Corrado was in production. The US lost the Scirocco MK2 for good in 89 (88 was the last model year) US Scirocco sales were slow in 88 with news of the Corrado. The MK2 16V was expensive in Europe.The Scirocco MK2 1998-92 models were reduced to just the GTII and Scala (both with low compression motors) for sale in Europe till about the same time the VR6 Corrado came out.

The Corrado (MK3 Scirocco) was styled in house at VW design under the direction of Herbert Schafer. The Corrado body was tooled and developed by Karmann as part of VW's A2 chassis development that included the B3 Passat. The G60 Corrado had improved interior trim, fit and ride comfort over the MK2 Scirocco. The 88 Corrado 16V was slower than the MK2 Scirocco 16V so VW had to drop the Scirocco MK2 16V to help sell the Corrado. The Corrado G60 8V configuration had great potential but the extra weight of the chassis hurt the car's cornering transitions and 0-60 acceleration. The Corrado was late getting the VR6 but that made the car more interesting to US customers.

The Corrado was the transition between the A1, A2 and the Corrado even had some of the A3 chassis and some B3 mixed in. The Corrado was VWs new 90's direction and the end of the Rabbit A1 past. Note the Karmann built A1 Cabi was built till 1993.

The MK1, MK2 and MK3 Sciroccos were not well supported by VW Wolfsburg, partly because the 53s were low production cars but mostly because they were Karmann cars with VW motors. Wolfsburg keeps a close eye on the Golf because that is the high production car that is made in many factories world wide. All of the Sciroccos were both developed and built in a non VW factory known for first class tooling and convertibles. If you visit VW's headquarters in Wolfsburg you will find little information, pictures or Scirocco cars on the complex. You may ask why VW made the New Scirocco look more like a Golf and it just may be because VW is know for hatch backs, not sports cars, not sedans (other than the Passat/ Jetta is a very poor seller in Europe). I think that VW had major management problems over the last 5 years and the New Scirocco project slipped though when the rest of the company was under investigation for losing money on the GOLF MK5 assembly line.

I have way more information on the Corrado design development but I know that most Vortex folks can't make through a post that has any content.

Modified by Doug T at 11:43 PM 4-3-2008

[VDub2625]

And as he said, it was the ORIGINAL plan for the Corrado to replace the Scirocco... but the brochure you've posted shows they obviously didn't stick to that plan He said in the post that they were sold side by side until 1992.

EDIT or were you trying to provide proof to what he said? haha, I'm slow.


Modified by VDub2625 at 11:43 PM 3-10-2008

[sciroccokartei]

I am working on it:

Here is the english version from the 1st site (welcome):

"Hello Scirocco and Corrado drivers,

The Register has changed. After 6 years of my own hard work entering and publishing each of the 1600 entries the work is complete. The Register has a database and every user is responsible for their own entry.

The new login for old entries works as follows:
Your email address used in your entry is of great importance. Click the button REGISTER NOW. Enter your data. Once the registration is complete you'll receive an email in which you will have to confirm your registration. Only then can you log in.

During registration (or the first login) all vehicles entered by a user will be assigned to that user. This works through the email identifier. For this purpose you must enter the same email address during login which you have originally provided to the Register. Because you have to confirm the registration by email, you have then also confirmed your email address. This ensures that only the right Sciroccos end up in a user's profile. At a later date you can using the management tool modify your data, club, HP, VIN, attach a picture of your Scirocco, etc.

There is folder for uploading your picture. The picture will automatically receive a red marker. The text is generated dynamically. "Sciroccokartei.de Kartei 2:513" This marker would, for example, mean Register #2 (because of the 53b), and number 513 denotes the entry number in Register #2. The numbers have changed slightly because some of the old numbers were used twice. All entries have now been correctly renumbered.

Another scenario: A Scirocco without an email address, or where the user has changed their email address. Such a user may use a new email address, and re-register their Scirocco using their new email address. Vehicles affected by this will unfortunately remain orphan entries.

Following the tests I hope that everything will work as intended, and I'm open to suggestions for improvement (info(a)sciroccokartei.de)! US and International entries are encouraged ...

Regards Webmaster Gregor

http://www.sciroccokartei.de/html/db/index.php

[sciroccokartei]

Scirocco Dates:

(re: 0)

Model:
For example: L, S, LS, TS, CL, GL, GTX, GT, GT2, GT2 16V, GTI, GLI, GTS, Scala, Whitecat, VR6, G60, 16V...

(re: 1)

53=Scirocco I, 53b=Scirocco II, 53i=Corrado

(re: 2)

Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)

(re: 3)

The original VW colour code or colour name, e.g. L90E or white

(re: 4)

Production year

(re: 5)

Engine power in HP.

(re: 6)

Mileage reading at the point of time of the database entry.

(re: 7)

Condition:

1 = Immaculate condition. No deficiencies in any technical aspect, appearance and vehicle history (originality). Vehicle is in impeccable top condition. As new (or better). Very rare!

2 = Good condition, original or professionally restored. No deficiencies but some minor signs of use. No missing or additional attached parts.

3 = Used condition. Normal signs of use over the years. Small deficiencies, completely drivable. No rust holes. No immediate work necessary. Not nice but usable.

4 = Worn condition, possibly partly restored. Only partially fit for driving. Immediate work necessary. Small to medium size rust holes. Some parts may be missing or broken. But relatively easy to restore/repair.

5 = Condition requiring restoration. Not drivable. Badly restored or partly or completely disassembled. Requiring larger amounts of money, but still possible. Missing parts.

(re: 8)

Accessories include standard equipment such as:

(Vck) Square headlamps

(SD) Metal roof

(OR) Original radio

(SP) Spoiler set

(ALU) Alloy wheels

(NL) Fog lights

(RA) right side mirror

(SHD) Metal sunroof

(HS) Rear washer/wiper

(S) Sports steering wheel

(GD) Glass sunroof

(AHK) Towbar

(Klima) Air-conditioner

(ATM) Replacement engine

(Easp) Electr. mirrors

(EFH) Electr. windows

(ZV) Central locking

(leder) Leather interior

(Servo) Power steering

(Tempo) Cruise control

(ÜB) Rollbar

(RL) Right hand drive

(US) US-version etc.

(re: 9)

Other entries, stories, etc. about the vehicle.

I HOPE YOU WILL REGISTER

[mec_vw]

Quote, originally posted by Doug T »

I see that many folks have opinions about car body names and the Scirocco's history. I offer this detailed document as a point of reference.

Thank you very much! Very illuminating.

Quote, originally posted by Doug T »

I know the people that were used to do the market research for the new Scirocco project.

Wow, so you've got the "inside scoop" on what they were aiming for and why, eh?

Quote, originally posted by Doug T »

A true squashed Golf would have a longer roof and a short hatch like the new Scirocco. Ask the people who designed the cars.

It has been my personal theory that when they were developed the Shooting Brake design concept, they were aiming for a middle-of-the-road shape that was "enough of a hatchback" to appeal to the Europeans, yet "not really a hatchback" enough to appeal to Americans. Was this a design goal? To make a single shape that could appeal to both markets (one that favors hatchbacks, versus one that does not)?

Quote, originally posted by Doug T »

The MK2 Scirocco is a misfit in the visual language of VW set by Giugiaro. This is why the rejected Giugiaro designs for the MK2 Scirocco look nothing like the Ace BMW or Ace Isuzu but did look like the MK1 Scirocco and all the other VWs. It was VW that choose the BMW design as the pattern to become the MK2.

I've always thought the Mk2 didn't quite follow in the Mk1's visual footsteps--and now I know why. Thank you! (Of course, that doesn't prevent me from liking the Mk2 in any way...)

Quote, originally posted by Doug T »

The MK1, MK2 and MK3 Sciroccos were not well supported by VW Wolfsburg, partly because the 53s were low production cars but mostly because they were Karmann cars with VW motors. Wolfsburg keeps a close eye on the Golf because that is the high production car that is made in many factories world wide. All of the Sciroccos were both developed and built in a non VW factory known for first class tooling and convertibles. If you visit VW's headquarters in Wolfsburg you will find little information, pictures or Scirocco cars on the complex. You may ask why VW made the New Scirocco look more like a Golf and it just may be because VW is know for hatch backs, not sports cars, not sedans (other than the Passat/ Jetta is a very poor seller in Europe).

That explains a lot of things, and I believe your conclusions are spot-on.

Mike

[jaegervw2]

here's 2 more angles on the same style design. not completely happy with the rear just yet, but I'll tweek it again later.
I'm just having fun, but I do respect the designers and I would just love to see a "Sciraddo" come out of Wolfsberg soon to put VW back into the sportscar arena. here's my 350Z Killer






Modified by jaegervw2 at 11:07 AM 3-11-2008

[vdubdr]

"Sciraddo" LOL

[VDub2625]

You Photoshopped all of those?

I love the curved glass and Scirocco logo detailing on the back!

[VR1POWER]

Man, I can see that you are very knowledgeable about the Scirocco. That is awesome, I to have had many of these cars, I started with a 77 and worked up to a 87 16v and then, I moved to a Vr6 Corrado. I am really intrested in any information that you may have other than what is posted. If you wouldn't mind sending me what you have I would love to take a look at it. Thanks for your time!

[84_GTI_child]

hey, just thought id post a vw concept pic (or photoshop by someone non vw) of a golf, im guessing, that has that new vw front end (scirocco look)

i found this in another thread on vortex, unsure of the original source... and this is the only resolution pic i have

[84_GTI_child]

v dub must like this front end...

[zero9nine]

VW will be racing the new Scirrocco at the Ring:

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com...gring/

[xcutioner]

Could somebody make a photoshop to show how the new scirocco would look like in black?

Here is e.g. a good picture:

http://www.golf5gt.com/userpix...2.jpg


Modified by xcutioner at 3:12 PM 5-12-2008

[EUROROC]

Quote, originally posted by xcutioner »

Could somebody make a photoshop to show how the new scirocco would look like in black?

There you go buddy...

I think your on to something... I don't think it's ever looked better

-Raffi

Here's a puzzle for you...

A man is dressed in black. black shoes, socks, trousers, jumper, gloves and a balaclava covering his face. He is walking down a street with all the street lamps off. A black car turns the corner and speeds towards him with its lights off, but it somehow manages to brake in time.

How did the driver see the man in time?

[pdx650]

The rear quarter panels remind me a lot of the Corrado.

[nextproject]

wow that last photoshop sure does look enticing. i just spent the last 20 minutes watching youtube footage of the car and i gotta say, if they ever DO send it over here, i will have to buy one, i'd like to know 3 years in advance though so i can start saving. lol.

[HighGs]

Quote, originally posted by 84_GTI_child »

v dub must like this front end...

This makes it easy to see what the Eos might look like if they were to graft a MKVI front end on to it the way that they updated the front end on the MKII Cabrio when the MK VI came out. For an open car, the Eos would stll be the way to go, especially with the sunroof.

But ... I think I've now officially ventured off topic.


Modified by HighGs at 2:27 PM 6-13-2008

[sciroccoboy16v]

Quote, originally posted by jaegervw2 »

This is what this car should have looked like to begin with
I truly admire what you have done here
I wish VW could see what this car should have been

[CSlowR32]

If VWoA does not bring the Scirocco into the US we will have no choice but to go elsewhere for our sporty coupes - Build Scirocco's in VW's new USA factory. To hit their sales number projections VW will need another halo car. While they are at it, they should also bring in the new Polos. I have a three year lease on the R32 and if all VW wants to sell is 4-door sedans, my next car will not be a VW.

[Gran Turismo]

VW really needs to bring it over here. I think it's the best looking car they've designed in a while. I'd have mine in Candy White or Rising Blue please!

[crazyaboutrocs]

Quote, originally posted by EUROROC »

Here's a puzzle for you... A man is dressed in black. black shoes, socks, trousers, jumper, gloves and a balaclava covering his face. He is walking down a street with all the street lamps off. A black car turns the corner and speeds towards him with its lights off, but it somehow manages to brake in time. How did the driver see the man in time?

He saw him because it's daylight, and considering how he is described, it would be pretty hard not to see this nut.

[nachtmusik]

Quote, originally posted by jaegervw2 »

If it actually looked like that, I'd buy five of them.

[otti]

x2
i´ll gonna buy one anway, i am just so extremely unhappy that they dont offer beige leather
they say the target group are young males between 25-45 but the brown leather looks like for 80 year old ppl.
black is boring.

[A2JettaGLI18]

Quote, originally posted by nachtmusik »

If it actually looked like that, I'd buy five of them.

No Kidding. That car is amazing. SO AGGRESSIVE

[Sven7]

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...63751

I wish the mk6 looked like this bad boy. I love the small headlights.

[Polo_driver]

My God this looks good!
You should post this to VW to show how real Scirocco should look like.
I've posted this on our local forum and everybody were amazed!


Modified by Polo_driver at 2:27 PM 9-25-2008

[design9r]

has anyone heard of plans to make an even more powerful version of the scirocco?

smthng with around 250hp maybe?

thx

[MidnightSpecial]

The US needs this car.

I hate the way the Golf and Jetta look, I have no interest in any VW products currently available here.

This however... Yes, do want.

[3rdtry]

Quote, originally posted by MidnightSpecial »

The US needs this car. I hate the way the Golf and Jetta look, I have no interest in any VW products currently available here. This however... Yes, do want.

Ver batem X2

I actually drove through a VW dealer the other night and drove out very happy with my GTI. I have no interest in the current line up

[JMBII]

I need this car in my life. I love my Jetta 2.0T but want to get something new this time next year. If the Scirocco isn't available in the states it wont be a VW, probably a TT or RS3.