How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks

[GWMotley]

A while back, I posted that I have had my sunroof seal replaced already. It was being pinched near the driver front edge. Also I had a leak, dripping on my left thigh during the snow storms. The regional rep inspected it, drenched the car with water for 30mins. according to the dealer service manager, and guess what, NO LEAK!. However, this inspection was done when the outside temp was about 70. So, if it isn't leaking at the pinch site, do you guys think that when it is very cold, snowing, raining, that there may be so metal shrinkage somewhere else along the line that is responsible for the leak when it is cold? Also, I have lubed the seals like crazy. It hasn't leaked again yet since the sunroof stuck in the open position and I had to take it back for that. Maybe the sunroof was out of alignment, I just don't know.

[nette]

I followed your directions and great pictures.

Used my $87.00 bottle of magic on all of the seals... stopping the roof operation midstream (like you said) even though the owner's manual said to never do that. See how much I trust you !!!!

Finally, the sunroof seal is not pinched anymore. When I purchased my Eos last August, the dealer said that was normal. Guess what... not so no more deformed seals!!

Keep up the good work. I really appreciate all of the valuable information.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by nette »

...stopping the roof operation midstream (like you said) even though the owner's manual said to never do that.

The warnings in the owner manual against stopping the roof midstream are there for safety reasons only, not for any engineering reasons related to the roof. If the roof is stopped halfway through its cycle, it will eventually move on its own accord (by gravity) to either the fully open or the fully closed position... unless, of course, you manage to stop it right at the 'sweet spot' in the middle and it can't decide which way to go.

The authors of the owner manual were concerned that someone might get injured if the roof started to close on its own, without any warning.

Which means - when you stop the roof halfway through its travel to lubricate it, be alert to the possibility of the roof settling on its own to either fully closed or fully open. My experience has been that if it does not start to move on its own within a couple of minutes, it probably won't move on its own. But, your mileage may vary, so be alert. It doesn't move suddenly - it moves kind of slowly, however, you don't want to have your arm or some other part of your body stuck in the wrong place if it starts to move.

Michael

[LIEos]

A couple of weeks back, I lubricated my roof seals with the GPL205 Krytox grease (thanks of course to the valuable information found on this site). The results are as follows:

Almost immediately, the grease, which at least a little of remains on the seal, catches road and environment "dust", including fine road sand. This did not make me happy, as a) it looked bad, and b) I felt it would not be good for the seal for sand and dirt to be squeezed between the glass and rubber. I have wiped and washed the seals a few times since then, which removes most, but not all, of this held dirt.

I have also had one "pinch" since then, with very few openings (crappy Spring so far here in NY).

I will say that the stuff is pretty amazing. I kinda get the feeling it will never wear off, since it has retained the exact same hydrophobic properties as the day I put it on.

Haven't had any leaks before or since (except in my trunk, but that's in another post).

Just curious if anyone else has had the dirt-trapping problem with the grease, and any idea how to remedy. Do you think I simply left too much on? I did try to spread it thin with my finger...

Thanks.

[Davy Wade]

Do you think it was maybe because your application needed to dry for an hour (or some period of time) before you took the car out for a spin? I haven't used the lubrication yet so I'm not sure how "wet" it is to the touch right after application or an extended period afterwards. That's the only thing I could really think of.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by LIEos »

...Almost immediately, the grease, which at least a little of remains on the seal, catches road and environment "dust", including fine road sand. This did not make me happy, as a) it looked bad, and b) I felt it would not be good for the seal for sand and dirt to be squeezed between the glass and rubber. I have wiped and washed the seals a few times since then, which removes most, but not all, of this held dirt.

Hi Daniel:

I think the specification for the lubricant calls for VW Part Number G 052 172 A1, which is an oil, not for a grease - perhaps this is the cause of your problem. The oil is pretty quickly absorbed into the seals of the car and it does not attract dust once it soaks in (about an hour or two).

We had a pretty lengthy discussion about different forms of lubricant that are sold under the trade name 'Krytox' a couple of months ago. 'Krytox' is a trade name for a very broad range of lubricants made by DuPont - for the Eos, we need to use the specific lubricant that is provided by Volkswagen, not any other lubricant that might be sold under the trade name 'Krytox', and most especially not a grease.

Michael

VW Special Lubricant Part Number G 052 172 A1

[kpiskin]

Can we make this topic a sticky? I keep referring back to it and have to search for it each time. I'm sure this is of great value to the other forum members also.

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Quote, originally posted by kpiskin »

Can we make this topic a sticky? I keep referring back to it and have to search for it each time. I'm sure this is of great value to the other forum members also.

Now would be an excellent opportunity to familiarize yourself with the "Table of contents" sticky thread at the top. An enormous amount of volunteer work was put into creating and maintaining it, and it provides a wealth of information. It will open a new world of understanding to you. You will find this thread there as well. Its in the 4th/technical category. Your searching days are over.

Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:43 PM 5-10-2007

[kpiskin]

I guess that's a "no" oder "nein" lol

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Quote, originally posted by kpiskin »

I guess that's a "no" oder "nein" lol

This thread was sticky at one point in time, but PanEuropean brought up a good point. If threads are sticky too long, people tend to ignore them...you know, familiarity breeds contempt. Another problem is that sticky threads do not move as people add new posts, so your odds of getting a good response diminishes. Threads have gone in and out of "sticky" status to keep things interesting. Maybe it will be sticky again, who knows.

Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 1:39 PM 5-11-2007

[kpiskin]

I only asked, it's okay. No need for further explanation. I thought it was a good idea, but I do not run the board. This is free to me, so obviously I can live with it however you guys set it up.

[rainZn]

hey guys,
i've just registered here a few minutes ago and wanted to thank you for the great article about the treading of seals.
in the version of the user manual you get here with your eos, there's nothing mentioned about how to tread your seals. and this part number isn't written down in the whole user manual.

i've also lubricated my seals with this volkswagen oil and that's where my questions start:

-) on one of the photos after finishing lubrication you've got this bottle half empty - after i was done, there was only missing little from the oil. my seals are really "wet" though so how did you work with this?

-)also you wrote that it would be best to leave the car open for some hours so the seals can suck in the oil. i was looking at my seals a few minutes ago and there have almost past 32 hours since lubricating but my seals don't seem to suck up this stuff completely, they're still wet and leaving stripes to my windows. have i done something wrong??

maybe i'm a little bit too concerned about this, but hopefully you can give me some answers to my questions

thanks,
rainZn

[kpiskin]

I don't know how they used so much lubricant either because I coated everything and only used about 1/8 of a bottle.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by nette »

Used my $87.00 bottle of magic on all of the seals...

Effective April 1 2007, it is now a $51 bottle of magic. VW of America was thoughtful enough to take action on the suggestion made by of all of us here in the Vortex Eos forum to 'do their best to lower the price of the stuff'. VW has to buy it from DuPont, so, they can't drop the price any lower. To the best of my knowledge, they are now selling this stuff to the dealer network at their cost - in other words, they are not making any profit on it. The Eos support team at VW of America realizes that they lower they can get the cost of this lubricant, the more likely it will be that everyone (VW dealers and Eos owners) will use it as instructed - and that, we all know, will prevent a whole lot of problems.

Michael

[rainZn]

yes, that's about the same amount i have used.

and how long did it take until the oil was sucked up?

[kpiskin]

I actually used a sponge to try to make it all even looking, so it's less shiny too. The seals are all black and do have a little sheen, but not too much. I only paid $58.83 for my bottle through the dealership.

[rainZn]

i paid about 45 Euro (~ 60.90 US Dollar) for my 30ml bottle

tomorrow it should rain so i will see if there is any difference.

[Grinder]

Last week I lubricated with the 205 grease, because that is what aI had. I do not have direct experience with the oil soi don't have a direct comparison. the grease was not as messy as I thought that it would be but there is some rgrease at the top of the windows. At the time I tried to wipe off excess I will probably try again soon.

There roof was in stacked position on top of the car. In one of my less bright moments I manually lowered the panel with the rear window in place from a stacked position. This put some panels out of order andf the roof would not operate. I had the car towed to VW (Trunk was swung back). VW was able to move each panel independently to get them back in sequence.
Paul

[rainZn]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

The oil is pretty quickly absorbed into the seals of the car and it does not attract dust once it soaks in (about an hour or two

but that's the problem i have.
i used the oil written in the manual, but it does not soak in completely!

the seals are still "wet" and on some places like on the left and right rear window it seems like the oil is dropping down because it won't soak in.
i really haven't used that huge amount of oil.

[just4fun]

Quote, originally posted by rainZn »

but that's the problem i have. i used the oil written in the manual, but it does not soak in completely! the seals are still "wet" and on some places like on the left and right rear window it seems like the oil is dropping down because it won't soak in. i really haven't used that huge amount of oil.

I used about 1/3 bottle when I did my seals, but I did pretty much every seal on the car, including the trunk lid seal and the lower and outer door seals. (some of these are not necessary to do)

I applied the oil about 3 months ago, and although I have not experienced any dripping, I have noticed that the seals continue to have an oily film. I think this is normal.

If you used very little oil, and it is wet to the point it is almost dripping or running, I'm wondering if your seals were already well lubricated and did not need to lubricated so soon?

I have found that after a day or two the majority of the oil soaks in, and just a film is left on the seals.

If you think they are too wet, just wipe them off gently with a soft, lint free, cloth.

Kevin

[rainZn]

i have got my eos for 8 months now and nobody cared about the seals until last weekend.

some of my seals had been changed and replaced because of leaking when the car was standing in the rain for too long or washing it. (this was a problem since i've gotten the car )
so i think not every problem can be solved by lubricating the seals, but i thought it would not be that bad to try this because my seals looked like the ones on the photos (white and hard) but "rehydrated" very fast.
after some thin lines on the seals and working with my fingers they were done.
so now i'm wondering why they don't even seem to suck up this little amount of oil completely.

[just4fun]

Quote, originally posted by rainZn »

i have got my eos for 8 months now and nobody cared about the seals until last weekend. some of my seals had been changed and replaced because of leaking when the car was standing in the rain for too long or washing it. (this was a problem since i've gotten the car ) so i think not every problem can be solved by lubricating the seals, but i thought it would not be that bad to try this because my seals looked like the ones on the photos (white and hard) but "rehydrated" very fast. after some thin lines on the seals and working with my fingers they were done. so now i'm wondering why they don't even seem to suck up this little amount of oil completely.

Hmmm.. That is interesting. Your seals definitely were showing signs of requiring lubrication.

When I open the roof, and look along the seal that runs the top length of the windshield, there is a shiny, oily strip down the center the full length of the seal. (where the roof panel contacts the seal). This seal is still "wet" after 3 months.

Around the windows, when first applied you can see the wet oil under the glass, after a few days the wet look disappears, but the windows still get an oily film around the outer edges, and require regular cleaning.

Does this seem to be about how oily your seals remain? Or are they "dripping" wet.

Kevin

[rainZn]

the seal on the roof you're talking about looks fine i think (still oily but not wet - but it catches small parts of dust - is this also happening with your seals?)

the windows also need to be cleaned, but i know that's just the way it goes when you're working with oily substances.

the main "problem" i have is here (where the red lines or spots are the oil is running down on the window from the seal on both sides - still after 2 days):

Modified by rainZn at 8:36 PM 5-14-2007

[just4fun]

Quote, originally posted by rainZn »

the seal on the roof you're talking about looks fine i think (still oily but not wet - but it catches small parts of dust - is this also happening with your seals?) the windows also need to be cleaned, but i know that's just the way it goes when you're working with oily substances. the main "problem" i have is here (where the red lines or spots are the oil is running down on the window from the seal on both sides - still after 2 days): Modified by rainZn at 8:36 PM 5-14-2007

Yes, dust, etc. does tend to collect a bit on the top seals.

No, I have never had oil "run" down the window from the area you have identified.

I'm not sure why the seal would not be absorbing the majority of the oil you applied.

Kevin

[PanEuropean]

Hi Rainer:

I found that I had to 'massage' the seal a bit to cause it to absorb the lubricant. In other words, if I just put the lubricant onto the seal and left it there, it ran off the car, and not too much went into the seal. But, if I applied the lubricant, then rubbed the seal for a minute or so, I could feel that the seal was getting softer and more pliable all the time. I considered this to be evidence that the seal was absorbing lubricant.

But - it will not voluntarily absorb the lubricant, the same way a biscotti will absorb coffee. It is more like what you have to do when you are applying a marinade to a steak - you kind of have to knead it and poke it a bit, to convince the liquid to go into the steak.

Michael

[andythai]

Michael,where have the very valuable and usefull pictures of how to lubricate the roof seals gone

[rainZn]

i have copied the pictures and instructions to a pdf-file just before they weren't available anymore.

unfortunately i don't own a premium account at rapidshare so maybe someone can upload this file somewhere else?

http://rapidshare.com/files/33....html

[kghia]

fabulous!! I printed out the instructions, but the text between the images always wanted to go AFTER an image, even though it referred to the image following it (ie. it was BEFORE the proper image)

The PDF really organizes the text and images (although it is a lot of pages-- no clipping or resizing images)

Thanks!
You might be able to host it at TheSamba.com, since it is in effect a freely distributed technical reference.
(it is freely distributed right Michael? We have the right to re-publish, distribute, reproduce, maybe add our own tips, etc those instructions??)

William

[andythai]

Rainer, thanks alot for that I have also copied it...perfect

[GWMotley]

I'm still having leaks. After takint the car to another dealer, this mechanic did a great job of aligning the top. This top seals have never looked better. I thought the leak should stop. Guess what! It now leaks on both sides. I'm begining to think the problem may be in the header seal between the pillars underneath the steel structure, just can't see where the water is seeping in at.

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Everybody in here follows the seal maintenance and leakage issue pretty closely, and I have a thought on the matter...

There have been rumors of design change/improvement in the seals, which may be a change in physical shape, but it might also be a change to the coating. I took a test drive recently, and the vertical window seals on the car I drove looked like the coating was somewhat smoother than on the first Eos I had seen in August 2006. Which gave me this idea...

I think it would be a good idea for all Eos owners participating in this forum, particularly those dealing with leakage issues, to put the date of manufacture of their Eos in the signature line of their profile so we can see if problematic cars tend to fall within certain dates.

anybody else think that's a good idea?

[SoCalMan]

Quote, originally posted by WolfsburgerMitFries »

I think it would be a good idea for all Eos owners participating in this forum, particularly those dealing with leakage issues, to put the date of manufacture of their Eos in the signature line of their profile so we can see if problematic cars tend to fall within certain dates. anybody else think that's a good idea?

I will create such a signature line as you suggest, as long as I can figure out how to do so. Edit: Did it!

Modified by SoCalMan at 8:05 AM 5-25-2007


Modified by SoCalMan at 8:07 AM 5-25-2007

[mark_d_drake]

Added Link to PDF to the first post due to problems with HOSTDUB servers

[BigFoot-74205]

Michael & everyone else,

I was just wondering, is G 052 172.A1 VW's international product code for Krytox, or is it just for North America?

Damir

[WolfsburgerMitFries]

Quote, originally posted by BigFoot-74205 »

Michael & everyone else, I was just wondering, is G 052 172.A1 VW's international product code for Krytox, or is it just for North America? Damir

The part number should be consistent throughout the world.

Here's the discussion from the German Beetle blog from September 2005 discussing Volkswagen part numbers and Dupont equivalent part numbers.
http://www.beetle-forum.de/Kry....html

And here's a google translation of the same discussion for those interested. As you can see they were trying to buy directly to save some money.
http://translate.google.com/tr...3Dall