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    Thread: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks

    1. 03-05-2007 03:28 PM #106
      Hi Michael
      Thanks for the tip - and the original post which made things a whole lot easier. I'll creep round with my specimen bottle and see what I can find. In fact I've just heard from the suppliers of the grease that there is a specific Krytox solvent to deal with the problem - meths, white spirit etc, won't touch it apparently.

      I went to my dealers today to pick up some rubber mats and asked about G 052 172 A1 - they didn't really know about it and definitely didn't have any.Which worries me for other local Eos owners who don't have this Forum to tell them what to look out for. I feel kinda shy about telling the service technicians their job, but I guess I'll get round to it when I know them better - not that I really want to know them too well. I don't mean to haunt their establishment. In France the official price is 41 euros (about $53).
      Max


    2. Moderator mark_d_drake's Avatar
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      03-05-2007 05:49 PM #107
      BTW

      ~= $60.00 shipped from 1stVWParts.com...


    3. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      03-05-2007 08:20 PM #108
      Quote, originally posted by maxdot »
      ...I've just heard from the suppliers of the grease that there is a specific Krytox solvent to deal with the problem - meths, white spirit etc, won't touch it apparently.

      Max:

      That is correct for Krytox greases - DuPont makes a special chemical to remove the greases. But - and I only mention this here to avoid confusion amongst other readers - the VW recommended special lubricant part number G 052 172 A1 is an oil, not a grease. No special chemical is needed to get the oil off of non-porous surfaces such as painted surfaces or glass - a paper towel dampened with glass cleaner does the job perfectly.

      This is one of the reasons I have been recommending that we all take the cautious route and use only the VW specified lubricant (G 052 172 A1) until we can determine with exact certainty what the DuPont specification is for that VW lubricant.

      By the way, I have since learned from VW (from a 'forum friend') that VW part number G 052 172 A2, the aerosol spray version of A1, contains the exact same specification and viscosity of lubricant as A1 contains, the only difference being that A2 comes packaged as a small aerosol can and it also has propellant in it to push the lubricant out of the spray can. Therefore, I think we can consider it to be acceptable to use either A1 or A2 for roof seal lubrication.

      I have actually seen VW German technical bulletins where they specify A2 for Eos roof seal lubrication, rather than A1. I think this is probably because A2 is faster to apply (thus there is a labour saving when VW is paying for the work to be done under warranty, or on the production line), although on a per-ounce of pure lubricant basis - meaning, after deducting the weight of the propellant in the aerosol can - A1 is probably the least expensive way to buy the special lubricant.

      Michael


    4. 03-06-2007 04:30 PM #109
      Hi Michael,

      I have an EOS on order and asked the dealer parts guys about the lubricant. They knew all about it (which is positive) and say they always keep some in stock, but the one they have is the spray marked as G 052 172 A2 in a 100ml can. I'm guessing this is the oil but in a spray form, but wasn't sure if one tin was expected to last 2 complete sessions or if the spray meant you pretty much used it all up in one go and if it would be better to get them to get a 30ml bottle in for me. Just wondered if you had any experience of this version.

      Thanks,

      Andy


    5. 03-06-2007 05:19 PM #110
      I'm about to re-post this in the thread because it was suggested that it should be added here too. Sorry for those who have already read it.

      -------

      My two cents:

      The service department at my local dealership really like to talk about cars. Any cars. Actually, I've found them very knowledgeable about the VWs and wasn't surprised to find out that they knew alot about the EOS.

      I was told that, need it or not, all EOS cars will be lubricated upon entering the service center as part of the regular maintenance schedule. You pay for an oil change, so they are going to do the oil on the seals too.

      My service adviser was shocked to see me purchasing a bottle of the lubricant. He asked why I was spending the $80 when the shop will do it for me. He commented that the bottle would last me forever, as it was meant to be a shop stocked part for service department use.

      Upon further talk, they were trained to use only a tiny tiny amount on the seals. Instead of a long line of lubricant all along the seal, they put only a small dot every few inches. Apparently, this is to ensure that there is not an "excess" of oil that might run onto paint or windows in a heavy rain.

      The service guy's words, "better to do small amounts on a regular basis than too much once ni a while."

      So, I guess it is a good thing to add to the lubricating your seals. Only use that much if the seals are really dry with lots of white showing. but a little less if they are mostly lubricated and just going after keeping them soft. Perhaps the oil will last longer after all.

      Overall, however, I wanted to say that I was impressed with the people I've talked to in the dealership. I'm trying to generate the same rapport with them that Michael has with his; this is going to take time and a fair amount of friendly chatter (not to mention the $$$ I'll spend with them)

      Cowell Motors is the name of the dealership, for those in the Richmond/Vancouver area. They are straight up and I'm happy with their service.

      -----

      Also, as for the spray, oil, or grease... I have the grease and never applied it to the seals. I suggest using the oil (and only the oil) because it is easy to control. I'd be scared that a spray would end up all over the car. That's my opinion, and I've only oiled the seals once, so i'm really not an authority on this.

      (side note: When I bought the grease, I saw how thick it was and was worried that it would behave badly with cloths or internal carpets. That's why I opted to buy the oil too)


    6. 03-06-2007 05:28 PM #111
      The Volkswagen aerosol spray (A2 part number) is 100ML volume for ALL the contents, but according to the MSDS sheets, its only 5-7% Krytox by weight. Krytox is rather dense, so by volume, you end up with less than 5-7 ML in the spray can. So you actually get less than 1/5th of the Krytox with the A2 part number compared with the A1 oil. Just buy the oil (A1 part number) like the owners manual says.

      Here's the MSDS for the aerosol spray. Mostly propellants, very little Krytox. I think its safe to call the spray a bad value unless its $15 a can or less.





      Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 10:37 AM 3-7-2007


    7. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      03-07-2007 01:04 AM #112
      Quote, originally posted by WolfsburgerMitFries »
      I think its safe to call the spray a bad value unless its $15 a can or less.

      I agree with you, for us, the more enthusiastic than average "I'd rather do it myself with a cup of coffee on a Saturday morning", the special lubricant in the spray can (suffix A2) is not the best value for money - the same special lubricant in the one ounce bottle (suffix A1) is by far the best value for money.

      However... if I was having my Eos roof lubricated by my Swiss VW dealer, where the shop labour rate is $150 per hour, I would hope and pray that they would use the spray can and get the job done in 3 minutes, rather than in 20 or 25 minutes as with the liquid.

      I'm pretty sure that VW released the spray can version for precisely that situation - where the cost of labour to apply the lubricant would be higher than the cost of the lubricant itself. Although I have not seen the spray can in person, my guess is that one spray can is probably good for one complete Eos application (then the can is empty), whereas we all know now that a one ounce bottle of the liquid is good for two complete Eos applications - in other words, two nice enjoyable Saturday morning "pamper your car" activities in the driveway, with a coffee, the neighbors smiling, the birds chirping, the sun shining on the white picket fences, the flag rustling in the breeze, blah blah blah...

      Michael


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      03-09-2007 03:32 AM #113
      Before I start this post I want to state emphatically that I am not promoting the use of GPL 205 grease on the Eos roof seals. However, since there has been considerable past discussion regarding the product, I provide the following for information purposes.

      1. I have received MSDS sheets on both GPL 105 and GPL 205. I haven't figured out how to attach a .pdf to the post, so if someone can enlighten me, I'll add them for all to see. (Note: these are for the Dupont Krytox product, not the VW product)

      2. Someone once asked how much actual Krytox is in the GPL 205 grease. According to the MSDS there is between 73% and 82% Krytox in the various grease products. The remainder is PTFE (teflon) powder used as a thickner. So at minimum you are getting 73% Krytox.

      3. There has been discussion lately about the grease product smearing and/or the liquid product dripping onto various parts of the car. I have used both products, the grease on the weatherstripping on my van, and the oil on all the seals on the Eos. In both cases I have had little or no problems with smearing, dripping, or unwanted transfer of any kind off the seals. (off my hands yes, off the seals no)I believe, if either product is used sparingly, and worked well into the seals, there should be little, or no, unwanted transfer.

      4. If you have used Krytox grease on your roof seals is there any reason to be concerned of damage to the seals? In my opinion, and this is strictly an opinion, I would say no. I asked the same question way back in the original Krytox thread and received a response from a chemical engineer who confirmed that both Krytox and Teflon were inert products that should not harm the seals in any way.

      5. The MSDS sheet does recommend wearing protective clothing, including impervious gloves when working with the product. Dupont is a very safety concious company, and this may be a bit of "over caution" on their behalf since the MSDS does not identify any hazardous properties, unless the product is heated beyond 600 dgrees F.

      Kevin



      Modified by just4fun at 12:37 AM 3-9-2007


    9. 03-09-2007 10:55 AM #114
      Since you asked, I'll also offer an opinion.

      I think the GPL-205 grease would work just fine and be perfectly safe for the Eos. I used GPL-205 in the door weatherstrip of my spare minivan which sits outside, and we just came off a 3 week period where it never got above freezing. The doors opened and closed like it was summer, no hardness, sticking or resistance at all in the weatherstrip like there normally is in winter. I was entirely satisfied with the performance of GPl-205, and I applied it 5 months ago. the long term issue with the Eos is to avoid using products which degrade/soften the seals or disturb the coating, which is why it is necessary to avoid any silicone or petroleum based products. The GPL-200 series greases are just as inert and non-reactive as the 100 series oils. The only factor I would see in your case Kevin, is that in the cold northern climate of Canada, I would think thinner variants are more appropriate for you, strictly from an application standpoint. Will you have to apply the product in the cold, like an unheated garage?

      I'll also throw this in concerning auto industry standard variants of the liquid, which would be GPL-105, 104 and 103. I think different viscosities of Krytox are suited to different climates, much like motor oil. If I lived in Texas or Arizona and was buying liquid, I'd use GPL-105. If I lived in Minnesota or Canada, I'd use GPL-103 oil. I actually bought a ½ KG of GPL-104 to experiment with in my temperate zone, it should absorb into weatherstrip more quickly, spread more easily and thin out slightly better than the GPL-105, reducing the potential for accidental overapplication and running off onto the paint . It should also have a slightly lower coefficient of friction, particularly over time.

      I think the key difference in experimenting with different viscosities of Krytox will result in service life (reapplication interval) differences, and ease of application. Its not a make or break difference, like the use of silicone or petroleum products would be.




      Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 11:01 AM 3-9-2007


    10. Moderator just4fun's Avatar
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      03-09-2007 11:54 AM #115
      Hi Wolfsburger,

      I pretty much concur with everything you say above, definitely share the same observation on our van.

      Just for discussion when I applied the GPL 205 to our van, and the GPL 105 to the Eos, the temperature both days was hovering right around freezing. I had no difficulty applying either product.

      Granted, the lubricants will likely spread and absorb a little easier in warmer weather, they certainly were not diffucult to apply in cooler temps.

      For the time being I think it has been agreed (in general) to publicly recommend using the VW liquid lubricant, if for no other reason to ensure VW cannot claim someone used an "unapproved" lubricant on their seals.

      Personally I think you are right on the mark with your temperature vs viscosity logic. As time and experimentation carry forward, we may very well determine that the grease is advantageous in hotter climates, and the liquid better suited to moderate and colder climates.

      Kevin


    11. 03-09-2007 04:54 PM #116
      I would like to add to Michaels recommendation of oil or spray over grease. I applied GPL 205 a couple of weeks ago and I am still trying to remove excess. Everytime it rains I find grease smeared down the front side windows (directly in line with the forward sunroof front seal). I am pretty upset about the mess the grease has done to my car even though I now get a quiet ride. I have hardly used much from the 8oz tube, but I think I will throw it at the back of the garage and buy the liquid form instead.

      Simon


    12. 03-09-2007 07:56 PM #117
      An update from vw-auto-parts.com

      I received 4 bottles of krytox today from UPS. All told took about 2 weeks from ordering to receiving.

      Good luck all


    13. Moderator just4fun's Avatar
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      03-09-2007 08:26 PM #118
      Quote, originally posted by hulahoops »
      I would like to add to Michaels recommendation of oil or spray over grease. I applied GPL 205 a couple of weeks ago and I am still trying to remove excess. Everytime it rains I find grease smeared down the front side windows (directly in line with the forward sunroof front seal). I am pretty upset about the mess the grease has done to my car even though I now get a quiet ride. I have hardly used much from the 8oz tube, but I think I will throw it at the back of the garage and buy the liquid form instead.
      Simon

      Hi Simon,

      Not disputing your experience, but just for conversation sake, it seems out of character for the grease to run down the window when it rains. Considering the product isn't water soluble, and how difficult it is to wash off with just soap and water, one wouldn't expect it to wash easily off the seals.

      Kinda has me wondering why it would do that?

      Kevin



      Modified by just4fun at 5:27 PM 3-9-2007


    14. 03-09-2007 09:00 PM #119
      Quote, originally posted by just4fun »

      Hi Simon,

      Not disputing your experience, but just for conversation sake, it seems out of character for the grease to run down the window when it rains. Considering the product isn't water soluble, and how difficult it is to wash off with just soap and water, one wouldn't expect it to wash easily off the seals.

      Kinda has me wondering why it would do that?

      Kevin

      Modified by just4fun at 5:27 PM 3-9-2007

      Why? maybe because there is too much and it is just being "knocked loose" and spreading?

      I have received my Krytox and applied, although I got the liquid in various containers.
      I applied the VW Krytox about the same as Michael & crew, and used about the same amount of liquid from the bottle. The next day I did have a run down a rear seat window, and a drip on each side onto the flip up panels for the top, right under where a seal ends. Obviously, I applied it a bit heavy in places. It's all good though, blotted it off a little, a little paper lint got on seals though (use shop towels w/o much lint, not gas station cheap paper).
      I also had to fret over some oily smears on the black paint in places. It comes off, but takes a little effort to *really* get it gone, even with window cleaner. Key for me = clean paper towels; repeat
      It hasn't rained (rode with the top down today ), but it could use a wash to remove the dust anyway.

      William


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      03-10-2007 04:57 AM #120
      In a way, I think it might be a good sign if you encounter some "running" from excess special lubricant (the G 052 172 A1 oil) in the days immediately following application. Here's my rationale, which is just conjecture and is certainly subject to anyone arguing to the contrary:

      1) The special lubricant accomplishes several unrelated objectives - one being to lubricate the seals where they touch the windows and where they touch each other, to ensure everything is water-tight, and another being to lubricate the seals where they touch the metal parts of the roof assembly, to ensure that the seals can freely move around to best conform to the windows and roof assembly.

      2) If the person applying the lubricant is very cautious to not get any on the metal parts of the car, it is likely that the seals will not be sufficiently lubricated where they disappear up against the metal.

      3) If you do see some lubricant leaking down the glass or leaking elsewhere in the days following application, this confirms that you certainly did get enough of it stuffed up into the non-visible areas of the seals.

      I have now lubricated 3 different Eos myself, and every time I have done this, the car has looked like an absolute oily mess when I was finished. But... it is really easy to get the excess oil off (after the 1 hour soaking in period) by just washing the car normally with conventional car wash soap. It is probable that some oil will continue to drip down during the next few days (Jerod, if you are reading this, let me know what your experience is), but again, that oil is easily removed with normal car washing procedures.

      An argument in favour of using an oil based lubricant such as G 052 172 A1 or G 052 172 A2 rather than the same lubricant in grease based format (e.g. G 052 172 A3) is that oil based lubricants are not designed to tenaciously adhere to non-porous surfaces. Grease based lubricants are specifically designed to adhere to non-porous surfaces. If you put a little bit of oil on a pane of glass, and then put a bit of grease beside it, you can wipe the oil off with a paper towel. You can't get the grease off without using a solvent. This statement is true even if the lubricant carried in the grease is exactly the same substance as the liquid (oil) lubricant.

      Michael


    16. 03-10-2007 12:32 PM #121
      Can anyone comment on getting the Krytox off the leather seats and what they used? I don't have this problem but, want to be prepared. TIA bob

    17. 03-10-2007 01:49 PM #122
      Quote, originally posted by vweosdriver »
      Can anyone comment on getting the Krytox off the leather seats and what they used? I don't have this problem but, want to be prepared. TIA bob

      If you've never used Krytox and you're reading these threads, you might get the false impression that Krytox sticks problematically like road tar or indelible ink. That is not the case, Krytox is super pure, clean, clear and it wipes off with a cotton cloth like a used T-shirt. You might have to rub 2-3 times, but it will come off. Because of its nonreactive nature it tends to want to sit on surfaces, rather than absorb or permeate into surfaces like what you're used to in petroleum lubricants that have a solvent characteristic. That's also why I feel thinner variants like GPL-104 or 103 are worth exploring.

      Here's 3-in-1 (light machine oil) on the left, and Krytox GPL-105 on the right. Its easy to see the purity difference. Krytox is as clear as water (its the ultimate synthetic lubricant, completely man made). Its unlike any petroleum based oil or grease you've ever dealt with. You won't fully understand it until you work with it.





      Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 2:35 PM 3-10-2007


    18. Moderator just4fun's Avatar
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      03-10-2007 03:45 PM #123
      Quote, originally posted by vweosdriver »
      Can anyone comment on getting the Krytox off the leather seats and what they used? I don't have this problem but, want to be prepared. TIA bob

      Here is a couple suggestions, but they are just guesses, because I haven't dealt with the problem either.

      As discussed several times on this thread, Krytox is inert, so it shouldn't cause any harm or damage to the leather. However, because leather is naturally porous, the Krytox could soak in and leave a discolored spot if left long enough. Once it soaks in, I'm not sure if you would be able to remove it.

      I think one possible way to help prevent the problem will be to stay on top of your leather maintenance with a good quality leather conditioner. Conditioners help leathers retain their natural oils, and often also contain additives that help seal the surface to prevent dirt and spills from absorbing or getting ground into the pores.

      If the leather is protected, and you wipe up any drips immediately, this should be helpful.

      A drop sheet over the seats will obliviously help while doing the actual application. I can see where there would be a problem if a drip comes off a seal a few hours or days after the initial application and it is not noticed right away.

      Kevin


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      03-10-2007 04:00 PM #124
      Just thought I'd post something I just observed with regard to the roof seals on our Eos.

      I lubricated the seals Feb 17, 2007, so about 3 weeks ago. The car hasn't been driven much since then, it has been garaged, and has been hand washed twice.

      I was preparing to wash it and condition the leather seats this afternoon and was having a good look at the seals. There are several places along the seals (the majority of the area in fact) where the seals "look" and "feel" dry. The seals are still supple, but they have the "cat tongue" feel to them again.

      I mention this because I'm certain the seals do not require another application of lubricant already, but it may be a bit more difficult than I first thought to tell for sure when they do require another application.

      I had been thinking that as long as the seals had a "wet" look and a "slick" feel to them it would be oblivious that lubrication was not yet required. It appears this may not be the case.

      Not sure if I'll do a quick re-apply this afternoon or not, I'll see how they look after the wash and dry.

      Kevin




      Modified by just4fun at 1:02 PM 3-10-2007


    20. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      03-10-2007 04:02 PM #125
      Quote, originally posted by vweosdriver »
      Can anyone comment on getting the Krytox off the leather seats and what they used?

      Just wipe it off with a damp towel. This has been my experience... it comes off without any difficulty and without leaving any residue.

      Michael


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      03-10-2007 04:05 PM #126
      Quote, originally posted by just4fun »
      The seals are still supple, but they have the "cat tongue" feel to them again.

      I think you identified the key criteria, which is that the seals are soft, supple, yielding, and will conform around the top of the windows when the windows are lifted up.

      When seals are dry, they are firm and resist deformation. I don't think visual appearance (shiny, etc.) is significant.

      Michael


    22. 03-14-2007 06:50 PM #127
      Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »
      I've heard a lot of good things about www.1stvwparts.com. They don't advertise here on Vortex, but the parts manager there is a member here on Vortex. It seems that the company is actually a VW dealer, and they are creative enough to run an Internet parts business on the side. Based on what I have read in all the other forums, I think you can buy there with confidence.

      Michael

      I mentioned this to 1stVWParts.com, and they said to me that they ARE a banner advertiser already
      Their banner is also listed in "Current Advertisers" page.
      just wanted to set this straight...

      BTW, they had a good price on Krytox, below MSRP from VW (as are all of their parts)
      That was also the cheapest source for VW Eos splashguards.

      William


      Modified by kghia at 4:44 PM 3-14-2007


    23. 03-20-2007 02:20 PM #128
      Michael (and all)

      Following my post of 2 March my Eos was lubricated by the dealer today. They picked it up at 8am this morning and have delivered it back - a nice touch, even if they are only 1/4 mile away !!

      I haven't seen the car yet but I spoke to the Service Manager a few minutes ago. He told me that the procedure in your original post was followed carefully and he has warned me to expect some residue to appear over the coming days - they have wiped off what they could see. Judging by your comments about residues, that can only be a good sign.

      I can obviously post again once I've seen the car (I may not get home in daylight hours today!!) and I'll let you know my impressions. The SM did invite me to phone and ask them to collect the car "every couple of months" for a re-application if I wanted (he has a half bottle of oil left) - I'll see how things go over the summer.

      All the best.

      Peter


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      03-20-2007 03:43 PM #129
      Peter,

      Good to hear your dealership is treating you well.

      Obliviously you will keep us posted, but we are all very interested to hear how the seals perform during the next rainfall.

      Hope it all works out.

      Kevin


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      03-20-2007 03:49 PM #130
      Quote, originally posted by pjgraham86 »
      He told me that the procedure in your original post was followed carefully and he has warned me to expect some residue to appear over the coming days - they have wiped off what they could see. Judging by your comments about residues, that can only be a good sign.

      Hi Peter:

      Wow, I am honoured that a VW service department would read a post that I wrote for the purpose of getting direction about how to carry out a procedure. Please tell your service manager that if he or she has any suggestions or criticisms to improve the information contained in that post, to please write to me (click on my username to reveal my email address).

      If you do get some residual lubricant dripping from the roof, you can remove it easily either with a cotton facecloth that has been dipped in windshield washer fluid (my favourite technique, because it is quick and easy), or, just wash the car with normal car wash soap and water - presuming, of course, that the drip is on the outside of the car!

      Michael


    26. 03-20-2007 06:19 PM #131
      thanks guys - will post again after the next rain (this is Glasgow so it ain't far away !!)

      I'll pass on your request to the Service Manager, Michael and ask him to e-mail any thoughts.

      On a very quick inspection of some of the seals tonight, I thought the rear sunroof seal still felt kinda rigid to the touch, whereas the side seals were nice and soft. But hey let's see how they perform - I'm just glad that the SM at the dealer is onside and keen to help.

      Cheers

      peter


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      03-20-2007 11:01 PM #132
      Quote, originally posted by pjgraham86 »
      On a very quick inspection of some of the seals tonight, I thought the rear sunroof seal still felt kinda rigid to the touch, whereas the side seals were nice and soft.

      Hi Peter:

      That's normal, in the sense that different seals have different amounts of 'give' in them. By example, the seal that runs vertically up the forward edge of the two rear side windows is probably the seal that has the greatest amount of 'give' to it - it needs to have a pretty wide tolerance. On the other hand, that rear roof seal (the one just above the back window) doesn't need much give at all, because the assembly tolerance for the two roof panels that it joins is very tight.

      Be grateful you can expect rain in Glasgow - we had half a foot of snow in Switzerland today.

      Michael


    28. 03-21-2007 11:09 AM #133
      Thanks for clarifying that Michael.

    29. Member
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      03-21-2007 01:36 PM #134
      I just had a scary phone call with the parts department of Martens VW of Washington (DC). For grins, I was calling for the price of a bottle of Krytox. The guy at the parts desk quoted a price of around $71 and said he did not have any in stock. He then asked what it was for and I told him it was for the Eos roof seals. He then said that they used an aftermarket product He had no clue if that product contained krytox or was safe for Eos roof seals....

      On another note, what, if anything, have you done to prepare the seals for the krytox? Washed them? Wiped the white stuff off, then apply?

      Richard


    30. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      03-21-2007 02:30 PM #135
      I am hoping that the price of the VW special lubricant (G 052 172 A1) will decrease in the near future... perhaps quite soon.

      Michael


    31. Moderator just4fun's Avatar
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      03-21-2007 03:10 PM #136
      Quote, originally posted by owr084 »
      On another note, what, if anything, have you done to prepare the seals for the krytox? Washed them? Wiped the white stuff off, then apply?
      Richard

      When I did mine the car was brand new (1/2 hour after I took delivery) so I just applied the lubricant to the already clean, dry seals.

      I don't have the owners manual in front of me, but I believe it recommends cleaning the seals before applying the lubricant. This to me would be common sense, it would be advantageous not to be working dirt and foriegn material into the pores of the seals.

      I find that after washing the car the seals are wet enough that a quick wipe with a soft dry cloth will likely clean them up well enough. unless they have been subjected to unusual amounts of dirt and grime.

      I also believe that part of the routine service schedule laid out in the owners manual calls for cleaning of the seals by the service tech at certain intervals. I can't confirm this right now, but will check the owners manual tonight.

      Kevin


    32. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      03-29-2007 12:59 PM #137
      Quote, originally posted by just4fun »
      I don't have the owners manual in front of me, but I believe it recommends cleaning the seals before applying the lubricant. This to me would be common sense, it would be advantageous not to be working dirt and foreign material into the pores of the seals.

      I find that after washing the car the seals are wet enough that a quick wipe with a soft dry cloth will likely clean them up well enough unless they have been subjected to unusual amounts of dirt and grime.

      Kevin:

      You are 100% correct with your observation. I am not sure if the owner manual actually suggests that you wipe the seals clean before you lubricate them, but the Eos Repair Manual makes this point very clear - it recommends that after washing the car, you first wipe the seal clean with a damp, lint-free cloth (e.g. a microfiber towel), then let the moisture evaporate, then lubricate the seal.

      Thanks for bringing that to everyone's attention.

      Michael


    33. 03-29-2007 02:06 PM #138
      Kevin,Michael hi I just want to ask if the cleaning process of the seals that you mention are also in the European manual and if certain weather affects the seals more or less(Hot or Cold climates)....Andy

    34. Moderator PanEuropean's Avatar
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      03-29-2007 02:32 PM #139
      Hi Andy:

      I believe that the European owner manual also makes reference to maintaining the seals. Have a look in Section 3.2 (booklet 3.2) of the owner manual. The page number will likely be different than the page number in the North American manual, but the information will probably be there. In fact, I think someone has already posted the page number for the European English owner manual elsewhere in this same 4 page discussion.

      Michael


    35. 03-29-2007 02:39 PM #140
      Michael, thanks I will have a look into it tonight.I have allready bought the lubricant, $95 here...Andy

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