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    Thread: ***1.8T Intake Manifold Test Results***

    1. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 05:56 PM #1

      The Short Take:

      The Long Take:

      Quote, originally posted by Dizzy »

      First off I'd like to give a HUGE thanks to Mike @www.tyrolsport.com, Phill @www.bshftw.com, and Scott @www.usrallyteam.com. These three businesses gave sizable contributions to conduct this test with nothing to gain or lose by "sponsoring" this test. That alone speaks volumes about their support and interest in the advancement of the 1.8t community. Also, everyone that gave a contribution, no matter how small or large, we thank you as well. Lastly, the manifold contributors are owed the biggest thanks. Without your help and the use of your hardware, this test wouldn't have happened.

      Now on to the data. The only real way to rank the manifolds with regards to flow would be total flow through all four runners. This is the easiest way without getting into standard deviation and outliers in individual runner flow. This does NOT correlate into which will make the most power on a given setup. Intake manifold flow is dynamic and undergoes turbulence, heat change, as well as sudden transitions, like during a WOT lift to shift. All testing is done at 28 in of water to ensure accuracy in comparisons, but flow in vacuum is entirely different than positive intake manifold pressure. All of this must be noted when trying to compare the different manifolds. The most interesting thing to me is the variance in individual runner flow.There weren't any huge surprises in regards to results of total flow, but there were some interesting notes from individual runner flow. Stock style manifolds starve the first runner. Notice the similarities in runner flow between the stock OEM big port manifold and VariantStg3's affectionately labeled "Homebrew" manifold, which uses OEM big port runners and flange. It seems as if most all the manufacturers could spend some time focusing on equal distribution. ABD and RMR seem to have the best distribution, the biggest plenums. Obviously the larger the amount of flow, the harder it is to have a manifold that evenly distributes this. For example, the Dahlback manifold, which uses the Lehman style of dual plenums for even distribution, isn't that even.A variance of 3-4 cfm isn't huge, but it is a variance. That said, a variance of 8-10 cfm isn't going to affect much in the real world anyways since this is under vacuum, and adding boost will more than likely even these out somewhat.

      Another thing to pay attention to is the throttle size. All of the small port manifolds used stock throttle bodies, except the 007 small port which uses a 12v VR6 throttle. The big ports are even more varied with APR's RS4 and 007 using the R32 throttle, RMR accepting a variety of throttles, Homebrew's manifold accepting a 3" DBC throttle, and Hypertune not even having a throttle plate. We added a comparison graph between the 007 small and big port manifolds and nother between the OEM small and big port manifolds as well.

      Comments from the flowbench operator that did the testing:

      RMR big port Retail price $699.95
      The operators spoke highly of this manifold. They thought it had plenty of plenum to get the job done, with very nice runner design and injector placement. He also noted the distribution- a variance of only 7 cfm from highest to lowest runners. (which is only 3 or 4%) They also commented on how short the runners were, and how that would shift the torque curve up in the revs signifigantly.

      Homebrew Cost is up to end user lol
      Said that it looked like it could be a good alternative to spending big money for an aftermarket manifold with a little revision. They seemed to think that the angle of the throttle plate and the 'flat' entry was killing the first runner. "Once air is moving so fast, its just not gonna turn like that, you know?" They also liked the radiused runner entrys in the floor of the plenum and that the OE injector bosses had been ground down a bit to increase the cross sectional area.

      Dahlback Retail price is $999.00
      They really didnt have anything good to say about it other than the fittings were nice and that it looked well made. They said that the Lehman style, while it may help distribution over stock, kills flow. And that this plenum design didnt do anything that a well thought out plenum and throttle angle couldnt do; basically saying that it was a trade-off that didnt have to be made.

      ABD Retail price is $499.00
      They said it was a big piece of crap. They remarked on how sloppy the lower flange was with regard to port alignment. (which i confirmed by comparing to an APR and my 007). They also complained about the casting slag. They didnt like that it used OE injector bosses. They basically said that while it performed moderately well, that it just wasnt a nice part.

      APR Retail price is $899, $1299 with the throttle body
      They really liked the build quality this one, and remarked on the quality of the casting. They did however say that the throttle angle needed to be changed in order to get it on par with regard to distribution and that the injector bosses again should not be protruding into the port entry, because it was what killed the flow.

      Hypertune Retail price is $1399
      When i pulled this out of the box, Dan smiled real big and said "Bling, bling." Again, they thought the machine work on this was phenomonal. and that the injector mounting was great. But they absolutely hated the plenum. They said it was far too thin for a big boost, big power or sprayed car. Dave said one good pop back through the intake would blow it to pieces, and then remarked on a flaw in the weld on the inside of the plenum.

      007 Small Port Retail price is $699.00
      This was the first of the aftermarket manifolds that they saw. Their initial reaction was to the throttle angle and plenum design in regard to how it should distribute air much better than the stock small port he held in his other hand. But he said that the most signifigant improvement to flow would certainly come from the injector bosses being nixed out of the runner unlike stock design.

      007 Large Port Retail price is $699.00
      This was the overall winner in their eyes. Like the small port, they liked the runner shape and injector placement. However they did say that they thought the distribution could be a little better if the entry angle and the backside of the throttle plate was revisited to compensate for such a massive throttle. They concluded by saying that if they were to build a VW, they would use this intake based on the performance vs. dollar value it has. (said they would use the 800 price diff between it and the hypertune to buy spray lol)


      OE Small Port Comes free with your car.
      Hated the throttle angle. Again, they commented on air not wanting to make that kind of turn, and said they (VW) set themselves up for failure from the get-go by pointing the throttle at the roof of the intake over cyl 2. And again, they hated on the injector bosses.

      OE Big Port Retail price is $319.00
      they basically said all of the same things they did about the OE small port.

      Before anyone comments on their comments... Please bear in mind that they had absolutely nothing to gain or lose by doing this testing or providing the opinions they did. It should also be noteworthy that these guys build absolutely ridiculous engines for some fairly high profile race teams, and have years of building and racing experience. So please think about the commentary and its value before any remarks are made about it.

      Unfortunately, due to some manifolds needing to be returned as soon as possible and a lack of planning (DOH), we don't have pictures of all the manifolds. Most of you know what most of them look like and we do have pictures of some of them. silvercar has some that I'm having trouble getting access to and they'll be posted later along with his measurements of the different manifolds (runner, port, plenum, throttle, etc). We just wanted to get the data out as you've all waited long enough.

      007 Big Port, APR, and Hypertune (top to bottom)

      Hypertune plenum

      APR plenum

      007 Big Port plenum

      RMR plenum

      007 Big Port port

      APR, 007 Big Port, and Hypertune ports (top to bottom)

      Homebrew manifold

      Dahlback manifold

      ABD manifold

      ABD ports

      ABD plenum

      Check back later this evening for more pics and measurements. Thanks again to everyone who made this possible. And lets try to get as many back to back dynos with different intakes to see how all this adds up. :thumbsup:

      The original thread that made this all possible.

      Last edited by Issam Abed; 09-30-2012 at 04:06 PM.

    2. 02-26-2007 06:23 PM #2
      Great work.


      DBR=Vaporware


    3. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 06:25 PM #3
      Quote, originally posted by zemun2 »
      DBR=Vaporware

      I am actually going to dyno test it against another manifold from the list.It did perform better than stock

    4. 02-26-2007 06:30 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »
      I am actually going to dyno test it against another manifold from the list.It did perform better than stock

      Their longitudinal version is $1900.

      Probably yields same results


    5. Member O2VW1.8T's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 06:36 PM #5
      nice results, good job for doing this work....
      02 GTi 1.8T haldex'd w/35r-SOLD 7.3@102mph 27psi on 93 octane--04 A4 1.8T converted to AWD also- SOLD--'11 JSW Tdi 6speed Manual- Gone--
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    6. 02-26-2007 06:46 PM #6
      yeah, is this stickied yet?
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    7. Member SnowGTI2003's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 06:48 PM #7
      Interesting results there! Thanks for all the work!

    8. 02-26-2007 06:53 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by screwball »
      yeah, is this stickied yet?

      if not it should be
      good work guys .........thanks for the effort and work you guys put into this much appreciated


    9. 02-26-2007 07:17 PM #9
      What's 24 cfm between friends? lol...

      Thanks for putting on the test guys. With this information we can definitely state that adding a bigger Plenum will increase the overall flow of the factory runners (+ 40ish) and it will continue to have the same traits of the factory manifold.


    10. Member 18T_BT's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 07:20 PM #10
      homebrew FTW now help figure out which way to angle the TB to make it easier on cyl 1

    11. Member 155VERT83's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 07:31 PM #11
      Great info!
      Signature blank...

    12. Member johnny5gti's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 07:32 PM #12
      nice work! congrats to donR
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    13. 02-26-2007 08:11 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by 18T_BT »
      homebrew FTW now help figure out which way to angle the TB to make it easier on cyl 1

      Working on it as we speak. I am gonna incorporate as many learnings as possible and hopefully level the runners. I was also thinking about shortening the runners as well, but that take math. So I will need help...lol.


    14. 02-26-2007 08:15 PM #14
      I sure would like to hear what the people who designed these intakes think of these results.

      Don R designed the 007 i believe, monster 007 did the fab work.

      I believe brett@apr designed the APR unit.


      any of you fellas care to chime in on areas you feel are victory or defeat?

      2002 337 1.8VBT
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    15. Banned Don R's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 08:26 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by silvercar »
      I sure would like to hear what the people who designed these intakes think of these results.

      Correction: Don R collaborated with Jimmy @ monster-turbo in designing the 007 and http://www.monster-turbo.com did the fab work.

      I believe brett@apr designed the APR unit.

      any of you fellas care to chime in on areas you feel are victory or defeat?



    16. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 08:57 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by silvercar »

      I believe brett@apr designed the APR unit.

      When I contacted Keith @ the beginning of this project,he informed me that APR had done there own testing on the manifold and that it gave a 36bhp gain.I wonder if Sam(18bora) would be willing to bolt on one of the other manifolds and hit up a dyno.
      The results would be interesting to see.

    17. 02-26-2007 09:02 PM #17
      One thing about the ABD, it is the most consistent across the board so cylinders wont be rich/lean. Either way a few CFM wont matter, but something to take into consideration.

      Wish Momentum Tuning's intake manifold was tested.


    18. Member solowb5's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 09:49 PM #18
      so the 007 manifolds are now 700 instead of the 900 i was quoted?
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    19. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 09:50 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by solowb5 »
      so the 007 manifolds are now 700 instead of the 900 i was quoted?

      This is transverse,not longitudinal.

    20. Banned axlekiller's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 09:57 PM #20
      W000T.

    21. 02-26-2007 10:24 PM #21
      Looks like RMR would get my $$$

    22. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 10:35 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by igotaprestent4u »
      Looks like RMR would get my $$$

      You deducted this from the results?

    23. Member SHUMopper's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 10:36 PM #23
      awesome testing diz.
      really some thourough work here.

      The RMR manifold has always caught my interest, and with its price point and results shown i see it definetly in my future.
      Question though, with a smaller sized turbo such as mine (T3 Super 60). what gains persay should i expect to see with such an addition? Just torque high up in the RPM range? More sustained power?


      Also, does the monster 007 big port come available with a passenger side TB?

      Thanks
      Steve


    24. Banned Don R's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 10:43 PM #24
      Quote, originally posted by SHUMopper »
      awesome testing diz.
      really some thourough work here.

      The RMR manifold has always caught my interest, and with its price point and results shown i see it definetly in my future.
      Question though, with a smaller sized turbo such as mine (T3 Super 60). what gains persay should i expect to see with such an addition? Just torque high up in the RPM range? More sustained power?


      Also, does the monster 007 big port come available with a passenger side TB?

      Thanks
      Steve

      Steve, I'm not sure if the RMR is available in a small port but it is modular.

      I'm not sure what kind of gains you'd see with the RMR.


      Modified by Boostin20v at 8:45 AM 2-27-2007


    25. Banned axlekiller's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 10:49 PM #25
      RMR is available in small port version for the same price.

    26. Member SHUMopper's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 10:53 PM #26
      RMR can use stock 1.8t TB correct?

    27. Member Wolk's Wagon's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 11:01 PM #27
      Nice data guys,
      Congrats to Don R on a manifold well done.
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    28. Member skydaman's Avatar
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      02-26-2007 11:13 PM #28
      Quote, originally posted by igotaprestent4u »
      Looks like RMR would get my $$$

      I see where your going with that... not a bad choice and it comes with a fuel rail and TB adapter or you could build it youself here: http://stores.ebay.com/Ross-Machine-Racing.

      Would like to see a USRT tested for comparison.


      Modified by skydaman at 11:14 PM 2-26-2007


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      02-27-2007 01:47 AM #29
      good to know... I have an ABD intake manifold that I got for a trade... So looks like it actually does something at least... haha I might be able to dyno test it sooner or later...

    30. 02-27-2007 01:55 AM #30
      it's the best topic

    31. Member 04VDubGLI's Avatar
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      02-27-2007 02:03 AM #31
      What he said. I'm going to try and dyno test my ABD. However, I plan to clean it up a little first. I noted the casting slop. I'm thinking about getting it extruded and honed. If that were to happen it may even be close to the 007 SP.

      This test is awesome though... I wonder how the RMR SP would perform. Why did VW hate us and give us SP intake manis...


    32. 02-27-2007 02:32 AM #32
      Quote, originally posted by 04VDubGLI »
      What he said. I'm going to try and dyno test my ABD. However, I plan to clean it up a little first. I noted the casting slop. I'm thinking about getting it extruded and honed. If that were to happen it may even be close to the 007 SP.

      This test is awesome though... I wonder how the RMR SP would perform. Why did VW hate us and give us SP intake manis...

      because we also got small port heads


      Awesome data compliation and presentation

      Cool to see that the AEB/custom plenum method was a pretty decent alternative to dropping alot of cash


    33. Former Advertiser John@20Squared's Avatar
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      02-27-2007 02:57 AM #33
      great collection of data!
      to those who helped make it possible.

    34. Banned Don R's Avatar
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      02-27-2007 07:34 AM #34
      Reason why ABD has made satisfactory results is do to its short, wide and stuby runner design. I'd like to point out that it's overall performance would not be as expected.

      Trq in the mid-range would suffer and fuel atomization would be less than opitmal as a result from low port velocity and turbulent flow.


    35. 02-27-2007 07:37 AM #35
      Quote, originally posted by 04VDubGLI »
      I wonder how the RMR SP would perform.

      x2...especially since mine is ordered


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