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    VWVortex


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    Thread: Yes, another VR6-T

    1. 06-01-2007 05:40 PM #26
      Think about it this way......there is no reason why it shouldn't work and fire up the car. Since you are changing the whole ecu...the rest is/should be the same, sensors are sensors.
      If those plastic pins are the only physical problem, beat the crap out of those. A worse problem would be if the pin layout is not the same, but even this can be solved by comparing both the Euro and US wiring diagrams.
      Wait for C2's answer, I'm sure they can find a solution to this, you've got a solid setup in here, hope everything works out for you.

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      06-01-2007 05:44 PM #27
      if it were me, i would take my mini airsaw and just go from each side so that it would be a nice 90 degree cut, i don't think you could get a very accurate cut with the dremel because of it's shape.

    3. 06-01-2007 06:34 PM #28
      your setup is going in a good direction but i would not recommend the head gasket spacer.
      in europe you guys have higher octane ratings then we do in north america. due to that fact you do not need to lower your compression ratio.
      you will loose alot of response and increase your lag. i have made well over 400hp on stock vr6's and plenty of mid 300hp cars.

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      06-02-2007 12:27 AM #29
      you sure about that man? because i'm pretty sure the reason their octane ratings are like 110 over there and stuff is becuase of how that number is given. here i believe if you read a pump and it's like ethanol*rm2/2 or something i mean i know thats off. but over in europe they just give the octane rating with the higher number. maybe thats a bad explanation, but i am positive that they use a different method for octane rating over seas. and i would definitely lower it to at least 9:1 compression if you are looking to run some decent boost. i mean there is always more than one way to skin a cat. some some ways are safer than others....

    5. Member Norwegian-VR6's Avatar
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      06-02-2007 01:35 AM #30
      Its a diffrent octane system for sure. We use 95-99 RON gas. The quality however is better than in the US.

      In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2, and even deliver 98 (RON) or 100 (RON).
      Z-Engineering says that 0.9-10 PSI is max on a standard VR6. HGP uses 8.5:1 on their VR6 turbo system over 10 psi. And they are THE VR6 tuner So I cant see how you could manage to get 400hp and not lowering the compression.
      However, still waiting for C2 for a respond on my problem.
      Calling them has not worked out, I know they have really busy days sometimes. All the pins are exact the same on US/Euro ECU. But are the censors inside the ECU the same?
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

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      06-02-2007 02:47 PM #31
      hmmmm....
      I DO have a ZR2 Charger chip for my car laying around. 9 psi. Maybe that will get it going? And use stock injectors and maf housing?
      Anyone?
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

    7. 06-02-2007 05:56 PM #32
      If I'm not mistaken, a turbo chip is different that a supercharger chip. I really donno why exactly but I've come across many posts saying that the C2 supercharger chip won't work on a turboed car. Jeff of course will have all the answers...
      As for the sensors, there aren't any inside the ECU. Think about it this way......if you wanna go standalone, all you need to wire are a few sensors like the IAT, TPS ... and you are good to go. The way I see it, unless the pinout is not the same (maybe they have the same layout but the wiring is different), there shouldn't be any reason why it shouldn't run. Of course, these are all *calculated* speculations.
      Let's hope C2 can shime on this. I am turboing my vr in the coming month and I also have the same Euro ecu that you have.

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      06-02-2007 07:08 PM #33
      yeah i am positive that the supercharger chip is different than the turbo chip. from what i have seen your car will run horrible on the s/c chip.

    9. 06-03-2007 11:14 AM #34
      You were planning on plugging it in anyway and the plastic edges are the only difference.
      So modifying the ecu to fit in isn't deviating much from what you orginally intended to do.
      Would modifying the piece you need to work make it so you couldn't go back?

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      06-03-2007 11:41 AM #35
      Thats what I have been thinking about.. If I remove the plastic pins, and the ECU still dont work. Will C2 have it back?
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

    11. 06-03-2007 02:00 PM #36
      You could probably wire it up somehow so that it didn't have to plug in.
      You can't find wiring diagrams for both ecus and make sure the pins are the same?

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      06-04-2007 01:13 AM #37
      hmm. I guess its possible to find a diagram.
      But I hope that C2 have some inputs on that matter.
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

    13. 06-04-2007 04:32 AM #38
      I have the wiring diagram for the US ecu. I'll post it later tonight. Couldn't find yet the Euro diagram.

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      06-04-2007 08:32 AM #39
      The strange thing, is that a buddy of mine have a 96 mk3 2.9 VR6 Syncro that run the Kinetic stage 3, have the old C2 software.
      We have the exact same ECU number. 021 906 256
      And he just ordred the kit from Kinetic 15 months ago.
      The car runs pretty smooth.........
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

    15. 06-04-2007 02:48 PM #40
      US ecu wiring diagram (courtesy of Patatron)



      Modified by VR6rocks at 9:01 PM 6-4-2007

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      06-06-2007 09:39 AM #41
      Ok...
      I removed the pins, and the car "still stock" started perfect with the new C2 ECU. Idle and up to 2000 rpm was perfect.
      So the kit is going on today. Hopefully start up, tommorow or friday.
      Pics will come.
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

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      06-06-2007 09:24 PM #42
      Some parts lined before we started:

      Front off:

      Manifold off:


      Head off, ready for cleaning:


      C2 Motorsport 8.5:1 headspacer fitted:

      Regapping off plugs. 0.024

      Putting the turbo togheter:



      Turbo kit and exhaust... 3"DP and C2 3" OAP:

      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

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      06-06-2007 09:28 PM #43
      Got the head on with ARP's before we said good night.
      More pics to come tommorow. So far, everything is pretty bolt on.
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

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      06-06-2007 09:31 PM #44
      looking good..
      You might want to put the manifold on with out the turbo..Im not sure but with the t4 you might have a hard time getting the manifold bolts tightend down..but then again you might not..when your in there you will understand..GL!

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      96 Golf VRT, 12 Skoda Superb 2,0 TDI
      06-06-2007 09:49 PM #45
      Yes, I figured that out after awhile. It is abit tight down there. The manifold is off, and we are looking into it tommorow. Think the 3" DP is gonna fit damn tight down there. We used 70 lbs/ft on the final turn with the ARP's.. Is that correct?
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

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      06-07-2007 10:37 PM #46
      OK A problem!!!
      When timing the chain, we got a problem! The chain was VERY tight! The VW-Tech said it was because 8,5:1 spacer being so high...
      I do NOT belive this is gonna fit/start with the chain so tight? I could NOT move it ONE inch.....
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

    22. Member Norwegian-VR6's Avatar
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      06-07-2007 10:41 PM #47
      We tried a VR5 tensioner, and the chain was fine......
      We are NOT gonna start or even try this engine before I know....
      With the C2 8.5:1 spacer the timing should be ok?
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

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      06-07-2007 10:54 PM #48
      my timing was pretty damn tight too... and i think it is because of the spacer... and brand new chains have no stretch to them right away and will loosen up eventually... i started my car up and it runs fine (kind of, but it's not a chain issue) [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    24. 06-08-2007 09:17 AM #49
      I just finished the same exact job. it was a little snug but it runs perfect. I just put a identical kit on my car. let me know if you have any questions.

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      06-08-2007 09:23 AM #50
      Thanx.. Really looking foreward. How was your intercooling fitting to the turbo? Did you need to make anything for your self, or did the intercooling pipe bolt right on?
      2012 Skoda Superb 2.0 TDI avant: Daily family car
      1996 Golf MK3 12V 02M Turbo.

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