Choosing and installing replacement tires

[PanEuropean]

Hi Harry:

I'm not sure what weight ratings the Michelin tires come in - one of the problems I encountered when shopping for Phaeton tires was the limited number of choices available in the "103" weight rating that the Phaeton requires.

Michael

[GA Phaeton]

That has been the challenge, but the Pilot Primacy is available in the 103 weight. The 275/45/18 adds just a little to fill the wheel well.

The 255/45/18 is:
Sidewall 4.5
Radius 13.5
Diameter 27.0
Circum. 84.9
Revs per mile 746.0

The 275/45/18 is
Sidewall 4.9
Radius 13.9
Diameter 27.7
Circum. 87.2
Revs per mile 727.0

The values are from the Miata Tire calculator.

Ideally I would like to find some Bentley rims as many have done. However I have not found a set for what I am willing to pay for them as yet. The fact remains, the baby needs tires. I was wondering if anyone has fit these ties and their experience.

[chrisj428]

Quote, originally posted by GA Phaeton »

That has been the challenge, but the Pilot Primacy is available in the 103 weight.

I cannot recommend the Pilot Primacy -- I have them on my vehicle and they are very noisy.

[Jack Orr]

I'm just before ordering the Bridgestone Serenity. All I hear is good, and they exceed the weight requirement. Tire Rack will drop ship to my VW dealer, and they will install.

Ain't life grand?

I'm just back from Angel Fire, NM. I rented a car- a brand new Mercury Milan, and got 27 mpg on regular. Regular in NM is as high as 93 octane in Dallas.

The Milan is a rather nice vehicle- not too many flies- but in no way comparable to my son's Azera. I tried out a new Ford 500- which has had a name change to Taurus. It was terrible. Rear view mirrors the size of a quarter. Very timid engine- maybe the same v-6 as in the Milan (221HP) in a much heavier car.

It wasn't an economy measure. I just didn't want the miles on the Phaeton.

[Woollman99]

I just put on a new set of the Bridgestone Turanza's with Serenity. I've put on approx 4,000 miles on them and rate them very high. Very, very quiet tires and grippy. Much better tire than the OEM Michelins (and less expensive). Since they are all-season, the tread design looks like it should tackle the MN winter drives/commutes just fine.

Woollman

[GA Phaeton]

Jack,

Did you get the Goodyears? How do you like them?

Regards
Harry

[Kuwaity]

Can I use tires wider than 235/55 R 17 on 17'' wheel?

[PanEuropean]

I think the primary concern about using tires larger than what is specified in the owner manual is that the tire may rub on parts of the car when it is at the fully turned position and the suspension is fully extended or fully compressed. This may not be apparent if the tire is "test fitted" to the car while it is lifted up on a hoist, or when it is sitting still with no cornering forces applied to it.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I suggest you be very, very cautious if you elect to use a wider tire than the owner manual or maintenance manual specifies.

Michael

[car_guy]

While I certainly agree with your cautious approach, I would be surprised if you couldn't fit 245 or 255 tires on the 17" rims (assuming they will fit on the rims) as that tread width doesn't cause any problems on the 18" wheels.

[chrisj428]

The tire manufacturer's website will give you a range of rim widths on which a certain sized tire will fit. Also try something like Tire Rack -- they have that information available as well.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by car_guy »

I would be surprised if you couldn't fit 245 or 255 tires on the 17" rims (assuming they will fit on the rims) as that tread width doesn't cause any problems on the 18" wheels.

Uh, I'm not so sure. I don't know a lot about tire sizing, but I think that as the tire diameter gets larger, the "height" of the tire gets smaller. Based on this assumption, I think that the smaller diameter tires might run the risk of bulging out at the sides more than the larger diameter tires.

Just a guess, not something I know to be true.

Michael

[chrisj428]

Quote, originally posted by PanEuropean »

Just a guess, not something I know to be true.

And, let's do not forget to take chine into account. (I know I'm going to regret bringing this up... )

[cwerfel]

Woolman,

I just (yesterday) put the Bridgestone Serenity 255/45R18 XL 103W on my 2004 V8. They are VERY quiet and nice looking tires. It seems to me that the ride charactersitic of the car has changed significantly with these new treads. The Michelin 18 inch MXM4s I replaced *seemed* to give me a much more plush feeling ride. The Serenity gives the car a more nimble, tighter feel. Did you experience this? I am trying to determine if there really is that much of a difference or if this is all in my head.

Chris

[Woollman99]

Chris, in all fairness, it's hard for me to accurately compare my new Bridgestones to the previous set of Michelins, as they were wore down and at the end of their usefulness when I purchased the Phaeton. My ride on the Michelins was rough and very noisy (as expected). I was able to milk out another 6,000 miles on the original set (36,000 total miles) while making up my mind on the replacement brand/set.

As far as the "plush ride", make sure your ride selector is set at the extreme comfort setting (versus sport). I've put over 6,500 miles on the Bridgestones (same size as yours) and absolutely love them. I can say that it's night and day difference.....sharp looking, very quiet tires, responsive and grippy, and provides a whole new feel to the car. I really like the ride and feel of these new tires. Plus they provide a 45,000 tire warranty

It would be safe to say it's not in your head. Enjoy the new skins....I am.

[Kuwaity]

Is there any one changed his 235/55/17 tires?
I have Bridgestone Toranza (OEM) on my car but they are almost 4 year old and done only 16300 km. any other tire recommendations?

[remrem]

Thanks to all of you, I was very well prepared when I went to inspect the car that I ultimately bought, and with which I am now obsessed.

One of the things I noticed, was that although the tires were almost new, they had a 99 load rating. I politely informed the dealer that it was my understanding that they were not safe for the car, and that a minimum of 103 (XL) was required. They verified this and without hesitation discounted the price of the car by $1,100, so that I could replace the tires.

I cannot say enough good things about this dealer, VW/Audi of Naples, Florida. They really impressed me with their approach to customer satisfaction. The internet sales manager, Dionys Brunner, was extremely professional and friendly, and was very patient and responsive to my MANY questions Also, the used car manager and even the owner of the dealership introduced themselves and offered to help in any way they could.

So, now I am shopping for tires, and have it narrowed down to the Yokohama that Pan European has recommended, and the Bridgestone Serenity that some others of you have praised.

Understand that this car will never see ice or snow, so long as we both shall live, unless there is another ice age that manages to cover Florida. So, it would seem the Yokohamas would be the obvious choice. However, on Tire Rack, the Serenity has such incredible survey ratings in every category, including road noise, that it's got me wondering.

Pan European wrote:

"This spring, I bought a set of 4 dedicated summer tires. They are far quieter than the OEM Michelin all-seasons, or anyone else's all-seasons for that matter."

Road noise is of critical importance to me, but good tread wear would be nice too, and there is a dramatic difference in their treadwear ratings. Must I conclude that the Yokohama is going to be even quieter than the Serenity, because it is a Summer tire, and not an all Season tire?

I look forward to your replies.

P.S. - The tires that are on the car now, and which have about 8/32" left, are Michelin HX MXM4 255/45/HR18 (99 Load Rating). Is there a market for them? I will have no place to store them, so when they come off the car I'm going to have to give them to the installer, unless there is someone who wants to buy them.


Modified by remrem at 9:04 PM 2-21-2008

[chrisj428]

I am actually going to go with the Kumho Ecstas when the time comes -- they're speed & load rated, a summer-only performance tire, have performed very highly in every comparison test and have almost twice the treadwear rating of the Yokohamas.

[Kcmover]

I have been Running the Mich 99 load rated fir about 16 months with no problem. If you look back at this thread explored the 99 vs the 103 load rating and had a Michelin Tire engineer check and verify it was ok.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2619062

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Re: Tire Load ratings main diff between 103W & 99W (PanEuropean) » « » 8:15 AM 5-22-2006

Michael. I understand that big difference in moving from the 103 to the 99. Found a guy selling some new 99W Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires for about less then half of the price of the 103W. (Michelin dealer going out of business-has 20 in inventory) I am very concerned about safety and asked my Michelin Truck tire guy his opinion and he felt there was minimal risk if any.
The Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 is the same tire currently on my car and has worn well. I am only looking at changing as one of my tires currently has a sidewall cut.

So I would be replacing all four tires . Two of them have 33,000 miles on them and the other two have 11,000 miles.

This is the breakdown between the two tires.

Load Rating..............

Currently:
103W

1929 lbs per position = 7716 lbs total.

99W

1709 lbs per position= 6836 lbs Total

Total difference 880 lbs or 220 per tire position.

Just trying to decide if the price is worth the risk.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote, originally posted by remrem »

Thanks to all of you, I was very well prepared when I went to inspect the car that I ultimately bought, and with which I am now obsessed. One of the things I noticed, was that although the tires were almost new, they had a 99 load rating. I politely informed the dealer that it was my understanding that they were not safe for the car, and that a minimum of 103 (XL) was required. They verified this and without hesitation discounted the price of the car by $1,100, so that I could replace the tires. I cannot say enough good things about this dealer, VW/Audi of Naples, Florida. They really impressed me with their approach to customer satisfaction. The internet sales manager, Dionys Brunner, was extremely professional and friendly, and was very patient and responsive to my MANY questions Also, the used car manager and even the owner of the dealership introduced themselves and offered to help in any way they could. So, now I am shopping for tires, and have it narrowed down to the Yokohama that Pan European has recommended, and the Bridgestone Serenity that some others of you have praised. Understand that this car will never see ice or snow, so long as we both shall live, unless there is another ice age that manages to cover Florida. So, it would seem the Yokohamas would be the obvious choice. However, on Tire Rack, the Serenity has such incredible survey ratings in every category, including road noise, that it's got me wondering. Pan European wrote: "This spring, I bought a set of 4 dedicated summer tires. They are far quieter than the OEM Michelin all-seasons, or anyone else's all-seasons for that matter." Road noise is of critical importance to me, but good tread wear would be nice too, and there is a dramatic difference in their treadwear ratings. Must I conclude that the Yokohama is going to be even quieter than the Serenity, because it is a Summer tire, and not an all Season tire? I look forward to your replies. P.S. - The tires that are on the car now, and which have about 8/32" left, are Michelin HX MXM4 255/45/HR18 (99 Load Rating). Is there a market for them? I will have no place to store them, so when they come off the car I'm going to have to give them to the installer, unless there is someone who wants to buy them. Modified by remrem at 9:04 PM 2-21-2008

[car_guy]

Quote, originally posted by Kcmover »

Total difference 880 lbs or 220 per tire position. Just trying to decide if the price is worth the risk.

I tell my customers the two things you don't mess with are brakes and tires. Where the rubber hits the road, so to speak.

The load rating difference between 99 and 103 is actually quite large. The German engineers are very serious about this sort of thing and I don't believe they would have set a requirement of 103 if 99 would have met all potential circumstances, emergency and otherwise. Sure, you got by with the 99 load rated tires, but are you willing to bet your life on never needing the higher rated tires?

The risk of an individual not wearing his/her seatbelt is also statistically very low. But do you wear yours? Of course you do, because you understand the risk/gain equation in that case. It's just a bit harder to understand it in the case of the tires.

You are driving what is likely to be one of the safest cars made. Why do anything that might jeopardize that to save a few dollars?

Steven

[remrem]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the Kumho idea. I just went to their website, but I can't find any model there that has the 255/45/18 dimensions with an XL/ 103+ load rating. Which model are you planning to get?

[chrisj428]

I probably should have mentioned that I'm going to a 275/40/19.

You might find the Sumitomo HTR Z III did very well in Tire Rack's tests -- first place (ahead of the Yokohama ADVAN Sports). The price is right and the customer reviews all seem very positive.

[remrem]

Thank you Chris.

Do you happen to know of anyone with a Phaeton who has tried these Sumitomos yet? The more I research, the more indecisive I've become. Now it's down to a choice of 3 tires - the Yokohama Advan Sport, Bridgestone Serenity, or the Sumitomo HTR Z III.

As we know, Pan European has the Yokohamas and is happy. Jack Orr has the Bridgestones and he sounds happy. Anyone out there tried the Sumitomos?

[calmone]

i have rum sumos, but on a subaru and was satisfied with them.

[PHAETON8]

Looking for new tires. What brand and size are used on a new LWB phaeton.

Thanks, Steve

[JulianBenjamin]

Mine came with Michelin Pilot MXM4 All-season, 255-45-R18 (18 inch wheels).

There's another thread either on the first or second page about tires (winter, all-season, summer) and what members recommended.

You just have to make sure any tire you get has a load rating (101+ I believe) that's suitable for the Phaeton's weight.

[car_guy]

Quote, originally posted by JulianBenjamin »

Mine came with Michelin Pilot MXM4 All-season, 255-45-R18 (18 inch wheels). There's another thread either on the first or second page about tires (winter, all-season, summer) and what members recommended. You just have to make sure any tire you get has a load rating (101+ I believe) that's suitable for the Phaeton's weight.

You can do better than the all-season Pilots that came on the car. First, if you don't drive in the snow, you should consider a summer tire.

You should find the other tire thread(s) for a lot more information

The LWB Phaeton requires a minimum load/speed rating of 103Y.

Steven

[remrem]

Anybody happen to know what tires they now put on the new Phaetons in Europe; specifically the W12 and V8 LWB?

Since it seems that the Michelin OEM's that came on all of our NAR cars are out of production (or so I'm told), I wonder what the wizards of Dresden are now installing?

[PanEuropean]

Whatever they are installing (I don't know the details), they won't be all-season tires, which is what was supplied on all the North American Phaetons. In the rest of the world, the car comes with either summer tires or winter tires, depending on what time of year you take delivery of it.

[Prince Ludwig]

At the moment, the OEM tyre for the W12 is the Bridgestone Potenza RE050 Asymmetric.

[remrem]

When I was purchasing my W12 in February from an Audi/VW dealer who had taken the car in trade, I noticed that the previous owner had recently replaced the factory Michelins with brand new tires. At first glance, it appeared that the replacements were the same Michelin OEM's (the Pilot HX MXM4 model). However, thanks to having read through this forum, I looked at the load rating label, and it said 99. I pointed this out to the dealer, and said that although it was great that the tires were practically new, they were under-rated and potentially unsafe for the car. To their credit, they reduced the purchase price by $1,100 so that I could replace them. While I pondered what replacement tires to choose, I continued to drive (very carefully) on the under-rated Michelins.

After researching this forum, Tirerack, and any other sources I could Google, I decided to go with the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity. My most important criterion was NOISE! Yes, handling, wet and dry traction, comfort, and tread life are also important, but if the tire is noisy, then forget it.

Since my car will never see snow so long as we both shall live, I was inclined to go with a Summer tire, but other than Pan European all other information sources insisted that a good all season touring tire like the Serenity will always be quieter than a Summer performance tire. Everything I read about the Serenity, including posts from fellow forum members had me expecting a very quiet tire.

Well, maybe my ears are more sensitive than others, but I hated these tires. Of course, on new and smooth surfaces, they were very quiet, as almost any tire is. But on most other surfaces, not only did I find them a bit noisy, but I found the particular frequencies they emitted very annoying. The most egregious effect of this was that it intruded and spoiled my enjoyment of the fantastic stereo system we are so lucky to have.

I also found the Serenity less comfortable than the Michelins that had just been on the car. After about 500 miles or so I returned them, thanks to the 30 day trial that Bridgestone offers, and thanks to the return process that was very easy thanks to Tirerack. Yes, I had to pay shipping and dismounting charges, but I didn't care. I just wanted those things off of my baby!

I then ordered the Yokohama Advan Sport that Pan European likes so much. What a difference! Are they always silent? No. Perhaps because I am so attuned to noise, I will always be listening for it. However, these tires are generally super quiet, and when they do emit noise the character of the sounds are muted and not annoying. Furthermore, they are supremely comfortable and handle beautifully, even in the wet. All the experts tell me that I should withhold my enthusiasm, as they predict that these tires will wear out very quickly and will soon become noisy. Well, only time will tell. I only have about 600 miles on them so far. I will report back to all of you as I put more miles on them.

By the way, I've noticed a lot of posts mentioning that it's hard, if not impossible to buy the original Michelins OEM's. Some have posted that they think they have been discontinued. In my research, I have determined that the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 in the XL 103 load rating is still very much alive and well. In fact, although Tirerack does not show them as an option for our cars when you search on their site, if you call them they will happily get them for you.

[PanEuropean]

Quote, originally posted by remrem »

I then ordered the Yokohama Advan Sport that Pan European likes so much. What a difference! Are they always silent?

Generally speaking, yes.

Quote, originally posted by remrem »

All the experts tell me that I should withhold my enthusiasm, as they predict that these tires will wear out very quickly...

That was what I was told also. But, no-one seems to have told the tires themselves of that expectation. I'm a pretty relaxed driver, I don't push the car hard at all, I have 10,000 miles on them now (including one cross-continent trip) and the tires have accumulated 1 mm of tread wear... which suggests I should get 50K miles out of them if this rate continues.

I'm very happy.

Michael

[mattsimis]

I have the Falken 452s in 275-35-20. Im finding them fairly quiet, good handling and nice bump absorbtion compared to the Pirelli PNeros that were on it.

However Im noticing a slight judder through the steering wheel at 52-55mph. Not at any other speed and only on good roads with suspension set to 3/4 or 4/4 (full sport). Imagination or balancing issue?

[Debart]

Hi,

I have Dunlop 255 40 R19 now. I've found very nice tires "Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta 275/35R20 102 Y". What is the maximum size of tire/rim for phaeton? Is it possible to "wear" 315 30 R21? I see at the forum there is no problem with 275 35 R20. Which size is max for NA not lowered phaeton?


Modified by Debart at 4:13 PM 7-6-2008

[PanEuropean]

Hello Debart:

The largest approved wheel and tire combination is 19 inch wheels. Beyond that, you are on your own.

My personal experience is that the most comfortable ride is on the 17 or 18 inch wheels. As soon as you move up to 19 inch, the ride quality degrades and you feel all the bumps on the road.

Michael

[Zaphh]

Hi everyone,

I think I saw somewhere that on 4-motion cars, it was important to get 4 tyres that were evenly used. Right now, I have P9000 Dunlop tyres on the car that I purchased that are 8mm deep on the front, and only 5mm deep on the rear.

Any problem to expect from this 3mm difference ?

Thanks for your answers,

Z.