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    Thread: Oil filter Anti drain back valve FRAM

    1. 05-07-2007 06:49 PM #1
      okay so maybe i'm totally missing the way things work here, but everyone says merr merr merr there is no anti drain back valve on fram filters and others.

      I cannot see how this matters if the filter is verticle w/ the open end facing up? I could see this being the case if the filter was mounted sideways or upside down....

      So does this valve do anything else? b/c it sure is hell isnt doing anything gravity isnt already, keeping the oil inside the filter


    2. Member EzekielGTi's Avatar
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      05-07-2007 07:05 PM #2
      you make a compelling argument, i have used the fram in the past with no problem however, that said there is a bosch on my car as we speak.

    3. 05-07-2007 07:17 PM #3
      All of the reviews I've seen point to 4 main problems with the average FRAM:

      - no anti-backflow valve (not a problem on VWs as you point out)
      - no bypass valve for if the filter clogs
      - very cheap internal construction (weak glue, plastic, etc)
      - about half the filter media of the OEM filter

      Never cut one apart myself (though I've seen pictures) so I can't say for sure, but the only time I ever had a Fram on my car was for a 5 minute run-in to get rid of all the assembly lube after a rebuild. Now that's a great use for a 2 dollar oil filter.

      'Course, I'm the kinda guy that buys official G12 antifreeze as well....

      Vince


      Modified by Vincent Waldon at 3:20 PM 5-7-2007


      Modified by Vincent Waldon at 3:20 PM 5-7-2007

      Vince Waldon
      Edmonton Alberta Canada
      2001 silver TDI Jetta, .205s and Malone Stage 1.5
      2001 blue TDI Jetta, .216s, SB III, and Malone Stage 3. grrrr baby...very grrrrrrr ;-)

    4. 05-07-2007 09:37 PM #4
      yeah no doubt i only run mann/mahle/bosch ect ect filters, never a fram. but the anti drain back argument always struck me as

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      05-07-2007 09:49 PM #5
      I thought the idea behind a drainback valve was not to keep the oil in the filter, but to keep oil in the galleys in the cylinder head which is above the filter.

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      05-08-2007 11:16 AM #6
      Frams are not good and are the same price as bosch/mann/mahle @ http://www.bestpricecarparts.com so jsut buy and OEM filter for the same price or less and have a happy car.

      and for vincent we sell G12 too.


    7. Member MK2SnowPilot's Avatar
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      05-08-2007 12:22 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by tylernt »
      I thought the idea behind a drainback valve was not to keep the oil in the filter, but to keep oil in the galleys in the cylinder head which is above the filter.

      X2

      Although I only see this being an issue if the car has sat for a long period of time. Otherwise there is still enough oil coating everything it shouldn't matter.

      Last time I ordered parts I ordered 20 OEM filters and enough Copper o-rings to last at least that long from Tuggle. I bought so much he called me to ask if I was working for a garage


    8. Senior Member Mr. Knappy's Avatar
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      05-08-2007 12:33 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by MK2SnowPilot »

      X2

      Although I only see this being an issue if the car has sat for a long period of time. Otherwise there is still enough oil coating everything it shouldn't matter.

      Last time I ordered parts I ordered 20 OEM filters and enough Copper o-rings to last at least that long from Tuggle. I bought so much he called me to ask if I was working for a garage

      How much was that? I need to restock. I usually buy them in cases of 10.


    9. Member MK2SnowPilot's Avatar
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      05-08-2007 12:54 PM #9
      I don't remember what I paid since it was last year... I know they were listing for under $5 CDN when I bought them but I didn't think of asking for a volume discount.

    10. 05-08-2007 01:01 PM #10
      i didn't have access to a oem filter and i was at wal-mart, so i bought the better of the fram filter ("tough guard or double guard or something) and i have no problems with it.
      but next change im going to use a good one.


      Modified by Eoin16V at 12:04 PM 5-8-2007

    11. Member Mortal_Wombat's Avatar
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      05-08-2007 01:22 PM #11
      the tough guard ones are even worse than normal fram filters
      they are exactly the same internally but are impregnated with PTFE (teflon)
      which should never go in engines
      N I N E - F O O T E R S

    12. 05-08-2007 02:02 PM #12
      Hehe, I posted a question similar to this a while ago questioning the quality of Fram filters:
      Here is the thread's link
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3185913

      Awesome info about Fram and other filters is here:
      http://minimopar.knizefamily.n....html

      Cheers


    13. 05-08-2007 02:53 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by Vincent Waldon »

      'Course, I'm the kinda guy that buys official G12 antifreeze as well....

      better safe than sorry..its only about 7 extra bucks more than prestone..

      fram filters does the job of filtering the oil, however if you use it long enough you'll find your spark plugs coated in oil over time. i heard the new mobil1 oil filters are pretty good, but if you're gonna spend the money on one, might as well save 2 bucks and get a filter from the vw dealer.


    14. 05-08-2007 03:22 PM #14
      dexcool ftw

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      05-08-2007 03:24 PM #15
      I have a few fram filters(unused) laying around. I should hack them up and snap some pics of what they look like from the inside.

    16. Member MK2SnowPilot's Avatar
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      05-08-2007 03:44 PM #16
      There is some nice snapshots in that link that was posted by majesus

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      05-08-2007 04:33 PM #17
      well I cut one up anyway.


    18. Former Advertiser
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      05-08-2007 05:48 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by MK2SnowPilot »

      X2

      Although I only see this being an issue if the car has sat for a long period of time. Otherwise there is still enough oil coating everything it shouldn't matter.

      Last time I ordered parts I ordered 20 OEM filters and enough Copper o-rings to last at least that long from Tuggle. I bought so much he called me to ask if I was working for a garage



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      05-08-2007 05:50 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by Mr. Knappy »

      How much was that? I need to restock. I usually buy them in cases of 10.

      10 Mahle Oil Filters is 29.80 USD right now


    20. 05-08-2007 09:52 PM #20
      whats funny is buying readly good quality filters, is like $3 or so a pop, while the frams are like $5 a pop locally. i usually buy an oil filter or two to get the order over X amount of $ to catch the free shipping on several sites.

      so the anti drain back valve is supposed to keep oil in the oil galleys? my car with an after market oil pressure gauge shows no pressure for the first second or 2 in the morning on cold start. in the winter it takes considerably longer than in the summer. is this what the anti drain back valve is supposed to prevent? or just that w/o the drain back valve it would just take longer or am i totally off here.


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      05-08-2007 10:08 PM #21
      i guess i don't get it, with such a cheap part, why buy anything other than OEM? your oiling system is critical to say the least and some people are worried about saving a dollar?

    22. 05-08-2007 10:10 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by A2GTI_8V »
      i guess i don't get it, with such a cheap part, why buy anything other than OEM? your oiling system is critical to say the least and some people are worried about saving a dollar?

      The point of the thread was not about fram vs other filters, but rather using fram as an example of a filter w/o a anti drain valve on it. Not to mention around here frams cost MORE than a good quality filter (mann/mahle/bosch ect)

      I'm still wondering the difference of using a filter with and without one. like what differences one would see. faster oil pressure build up at cold start? more oil pressure all around?


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      05-08-2007 10:28 PM #23
      It may be less of an issue for solid lifter heads like my '82, but I imagine hydraulic lifters would benefit from having a fully primed oil system at startup -- less clatter for a shorter amount of time as the lifters get up to pressure. No drainback valve on the planet will prevent 0 PSI on startup (oil under pressure will squeeze out between bearings etc), but it should shorten the amount of time it takes to get up to pressure by not allowing air to flow backwards into the system as the column of oil in the oil pump flows down into the sump due to gravity.

      In theory.

      I didn't really pay attention to how long it took my oil light to go out with the Fram on my car, it might be a little bit faster now with the Bosch or it might just be my imagination.


    24. Member MK2SnowPilot's Avatar
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      05-09-2007 12:32 AM #24
      Actually if you look at that site that cuts open all the oil filters you'll see that most filters (yes even the crappy FRAM ones) have some sort of anti-drainback valve.

      The issue is more the affectiveness of any given version of anti-drainback valve as well as the ability of the filter to keep filtering the oil for as long as possible.


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