Megasquirt on a Distributor VR6

[Kenner8v88]

we are using the stock bosch vr6 sensors with modified code using easytherm.

we have one of those lasers that measures temperature, the CLT definitely does not read the outside temp, but if i recall, the IAT does read correctly.

We've been tuning it for 5.5psi, and so far everything has been great. Still needs some tweaking but we can get into boost.

Once we get this UEGO working with the MS, some datalogging will make tuning for 20psi WAY easier.

[matt@diyautotune]

When using EasyTherm, be sure to copy the INC files it generates over to your project folder since MegaTune needs these to interpret the readings. Even if the MS has the EasyTherm data loaded correctly, if the INC files are not copied you'll confuse MegaTune.

[tooslojetta]

Looking for some MS help. Having problems with acceleration enrichment (at least I think thats the problem). I've tried both MAPdot and TPSdot with about the same success. MAPdot seems to work a little better but at about 3-5% TPS it stumbles badly. And only if I slowly go to 3-5%. Smoothly going through 3-5% works nicely but a faster KPA/sec or TPSsec stumbles. Any ideas or sample AE data? This is an OBD1 VR6 no mods. Thanks!

[matt@diyautotune]

There's a tutorial on AE tuning here:

http://www.msextra.com/manuals...accel

And a somewhat hidden section of the manual here:

http://www.msextra.com/manuals...e.txt

I hope this can be of some help.

[92rado2.8]

Quote, originally posted by tooslojetta »

Looking for some MS help. Having problems with acceleration enrichment (at least I think thats the problem). I've tried both MAPdot and TPSdot with about the same success. MAPdot seems to work a little better but at about 3-5% TPS it stumbles badly. And only if I slowly go to 3-5%. Smoothly going through 3-5% works nicely but a faster KPA/sec or TPSsec stumbles. Any ideas or sample AE data? This is an OBD1 VR6 no mods. Thanks!

I can send you a MSQ that Paul did for me on my setup. The set-up this thread talks about is the one on my car right now. PM me your E-mail and I can get it out to you.

On a side note, Tuning for some reason is the hardest thing for me to get, but Paul has done his best to try and help me. We all should have a get together, kind of like a MS meet. Sound good to anyone else? I am sure Paul would not mind, could make him a couple of bucks

[tooslojetta]

Quote, originally posted by matt@diyautotune »

There's a tutorial on AE tuning here: http://www.msextra.com/manuals...accel And a somewhat hidden section of the manual here: http://www.msextra.com/manuals...e.txt I hope this can be of some help.

Thanks Matt! I already reviewed both of those (the manual and the "hidden txt file" ) Both were informative but unless I missed something there is no real way to log/track TPSdot(ADC) per sec or MAPdot per sec. I tried logging map and time and correlating a "change in MAP per second" and programming AE bins accordingly but there may be another issue that I'm missing. Fortunately I wired a T68 plug for the MS so I can quickly switch back to the factory ECU (where tip in/AE works perfectly). I'm confident the problem is in how I have the MS programmed just not sure where. Other than the very specific point of tip in and holding 3-5 % TPS AE works great, all of the cold start enrichments work well, the VE and spark tables have been tuned for desired performance on the dyno. Unfortunately I am planning on blowing the engine up on massive quantities of N2O this coming Sunday at the Pgh Classic and really wanted to do it on MS

[tooslojetta]

Quote, originally posted by 92rado2.8 »

I can send you a MSQ that Paul did for me on my setup. The set-up this thread talks about is the one on my car right now. PM me your E-mail and I can get it out to you.

I love tuning but hate time consuming issues like this one. My email is Mike@ostdyno.com

Thanks

[JRaptor]

I would love to learn more about tuning. We are doing our best at tuning my co-workers boosted VR. So far it's going good, just trying to steady out that AFR line is a bit tough.

[hasnfefr]

head of the line!

[need_a_VR6]

Got another one of these almost done on an SLC with some big turbo and Siemens 60lb/hr injectors.

[hasnfefr]

ttt

[mk3aba20vt]

could you give more details on the tach circuit and the launch circuit?

[need_a_VR6]

Launch Circuit

That, but without the 2k resistor.

Tach Circuit where it says 1-10k use 4.7k

[hasnfefr]

ttt

[PapioGXL]

Just got my rado running on MS, thanks for the groundwork.

It helps to make sure the tacho output is on in megatune doesn't it. :wallbash: lol

[need_a_VR6]

Haha, yeah even with all the info it's still easy to miss something! Glad it helped though.

[VW_Robb]

Does anyone know what the crank offset is on a ABA engine? I have to back track a bit to figure it out so I thought I might try asking before I tore back into my engine. Here is what I'm dealing with: it's an ABA 16v engine running a waste spark coil pack, using MS2 v3.57 as the management. In order to get it to fire I need to know how many teeth pass by the VSS until BTDC. Does anyone know this?

[ClownTrigger]

For an ABA shortblock:

I'm also running wastespark coilpacks. I have MS1 extra, so idk if your numbers will be the same, but at least it's a start.


Modified by ClownTrigger at 10:23 AM 3-14-2009

[PapioGXL]

Alright, I'm having issues with my VR. I have the 55lb injectors in for prepping to turbo it, but I'm hitting some snags. I'm using the hi-res code also, but other than the fuel and code, everything was setup the same as need_a_vr6.

Now on to my problems. I switched the req_fuel to ~5.2 but have been playing with it. My Wideband seems to be reading rather erratically and I noticed my PW1 was exactly half of PW2.

When its running, the engine vibrates a lot, and has a loud clanking noise from the rear bank. I'm thinking that the engine is running very lean on bank 1 and very rich on bank 2, and the difference in power balance is the cause. Does this sound about right? If so, what would cause the difference in pw?

On to timing. I started off running the same spark settings as shown, but it would backfire through the intake occasionally on failed startups. I started playing with the trim angle, and it seems to start the quickest/run the smoothest at approx 32* advance trim.

Also, my wideband is reading differently from the display to the MS, I'm using JAW and have the MS set for LC1 while using the OUTPUT 1 on the JAW. I think Beav might be able to help me with this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I need to work everything out in about 3 weeks to drive it 800 miles back to NE.

Thanks guys.

[Lord_Verminaard]

Quote, originally posted by PapioGXL »

Also, my wideband is reading differently from the display to the MS, I'm using JAW and have the MS set for LC1 while using the OUTPUT 1 on the JAW. I think Beav might be able to help me with this.

I don't have any MS experience so I can't be of much help with that, but I have used JAW. What do you have your Output1 on the JAW set to? It is my understanding that some of the other wideband controllers say that their output is 1v but usually it is more like 1.7 volts- if your JAW is set to output 1v, then it will only output 1v. I remember reading that in order to use a JAW with MS or whatever, you have to set the output to read whatever the voltage of an LC1 would put out. You could also just set the JAW to output standard narrowband and set that accordingly in MS, and just monitor your AFR through JAW instead.

Hope that helped some.

Brendan

[matt@diyautotune]

Quote, originally posted by PapioGXL »

Alright, I'm having issues with my VR. I have the 55lb injectors in for prepping to turbo it, but I'm hitting some snags. I'm using the hi-res code also, but other than the fuel and code, everything was setup the same as need_a_vr6. Now on to my problems. I switched the req_fuel to ~5.2 but have been playing with it. My Wideband seems to be reading rather erratically and I noticed my PW1 was exactly half of PW2.

PW2 tends to give a bogus reading unless you are running dual table code. Unless you have specifically enabled dual table, ignore PW2.

Quote »

On to timing. I started off running the same spark settings as shown, but it would backfire through the intake occasionally on failed startups. I started playing with the trim angle, and it seems to start the quickest/run the smoothest at approx 32* advance trim.

Check with a timing light, make sure the timing displayed in MegaTune is what you're really getting on the engine.

[need_a_VR6]

I had to look at some logs to confirm but PW2 is complete garbage on some and fine on others.

Agreed, I've set up a few cars with this wheel decoder and I don't think I've done two the same. Your offset and the first tooth trigger will determine your static timing, just change the offset so MS and reality match.

For the JAW, you might want to check for grounding problems.

[PapioGXL]

Brenden, I'm just using whatever the JAW came programmed with, as I heard it was the same as an LC-1, but I'm not sure on the accuracy of that.

Matt, thanks for the help, I bought my RX-7's MS unit from you like 3 years ago, awesome customer service, its definitely nice to get parts from involved vendors.

Paul, I checked the timing last night, and it was only 2* off from TDC when timing was fixed at 0 with your decoder settings. It just seems VERY odd that its running buttery smooth at 30* advance spark. It jumps from about 1000 RPM to about 200 when I switch it, and smooths out audibly. I found out at least two of the plugs are misfiring pretty badly, they're missing about 50% of the time now.


Modified by PapioGXL at 7:06 PM 3-18-2009

[need_a_VR6]

I just got another distro car on HR10g running recently, I'll try and get the msq posted for you tomorrow to try.

Which plugs are fouling? All on the same injector bank?

[need_a_VR6]

HR10g msq, for all stock stuff, but you can tweak it for your use: http://www.msruns.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22799

[Lord_Verminaard]

Quote, originally posted by PapioGXL »

Brenden, I'm just using whatever the JAW came programmed with, as I heard it was the same as an LC-1, but I'm not sure on the accuracy of that.

Ok, found the thread on 14point7 forum about that same issue: http://14point7.com/forum/index.php?topic=107.0

Hope that helps.

Brendan

[PapioGXL]

Paul, I just threw in the stock injectors again, and ran your .msq, but I had the same problems as before. I really appreciate the help, I owe you a case of beer if I ever see you in person. I also didn''t notice really any difference with my IAC unplugged or plugged in, not that big of a deal, I can live with a bumped up idle and no IAC for now.

Another thing, I took it around the block really quick, and if you florr it, it has no power, and intermittently has a split second of full power, then right back to nothing. It really kinda feels like a large timing retard on a 2step.

[need_a_VR6]

I would just triple check your wiring and make sure your board mods are done right as well. That latest HR10g msq runs/drives without issues.

[PapioGXL]

Will do. I'm going to go yank the board out tonight.

Do you happen to know of any readily available usd adapters that will work with MS and vista? My old junk laptop is falling apart and causing half of my frustrations. lol

[PapioGXL]

And survey says I need to start smoking, never done it before, but it might help. lol

I guess I completely overlooked the tsel jumper, when I got the board it was jumped to VROUT, not VROUTINV. I had to have looked at it 100 times.

[need_a_VR6]

Switch that, turn both pots fully ccw and start from there.

[PapioGXL]

Unfortunately, I won't be working on this project anymore. The engine died and when i restarted it with a factory computer, was knocking something fierce. I pulled the plugs and 1 and 3 were oil fouled while the other 4 were normal. :crying: I pulled the dipstick, and there were lots of shavings in there. :yuck:

So I'm going to have to find a buyer for it before Saturday or else its as good as scrap to me.

So if anyone in the Cleveland area wants a project, let me know.

[mk2t]

might be a stupid Q but whats is the "relay coil" in the tach diagram?

Modified by mk2t at 8:02 AM 5-10-2009

Modified by mk2t at 8:03 AM 5-10-2009


Modified by mk2t at 8:03 AM 5-10-2009

[need_a_VR6]

It's the coil section of a normal automotive relay, it 'simulates' the sort of signal an ignition coil outputs. The best way to build that circuit is take an old/used relay open it up and cut the coil out of it. If you use the entire coil it clicks like an sob

[mk2t]

thanks! i had a feeling it was as simple as that, just wanted to be sure