Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Results 1 to 29 of 29

    Thread: G12 Antifreeze Contamination

    1. Member rcprato's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 14th, 2007
      Location
      Rochester, NY
      Posts
      508
      Vehicles
      2008 Passat Komfort 2.0TSI (APR Tune), 2011 Touareg VR6 Lux, 02 Pasat GLS, 00 Jetta GLS 2.0, 04 GLI
      09-14-2007 03:34 PM #1
      I have a 05 Passat that I added Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant to in the expansion tank which most of you probably know turned the G12 coolant a nice shade of brown. The jug of Prestone said compatible with all types of coolant and a phone call to Prestone also assured me it would be fine. My VW dealer service writer said that I need to drain, flush and refill system to prevent problems that will arise from mixing different types of atifreeze, can anybody verify that with something in writing from VW? I am having the work done today and Prestone may consider reimbursing me for the out of pocket expense if I can show them something from VW saying if another coolant has been added to the G12 and the result is the coolant turning brown, the system needs to be drained, flushed and refilled with G12 coolant.

    2. 09-14-2007 03:40 PM #2
      You should never add anything other than G12 to G12. You could ask your dealership if they will write something down for you stating that the Prestone caused problems. Any of our testimonies would probably not be admissible. Just for future reference, don't do it . It all kind of comes down to what is in the Prestone (yeah, that sounds simple enough).

      G12 is free of certain chemicals (it skips my mind right now) but adding other coolants to it can add silicates and things like that (i think it's silicates?) and it'll mess stuff up.

      My girlfriend added that junk to the Dex-cool in her car and it would get hotter than it was supposed to..she flushed (yeah, on her own) the system and refilled with Dex-cool, problem solved. So 'add it to anything' is bs.


    3. Member AudiA4_18T's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 15th, 2006
      Location
      Fort Lauderdale, FL
      Posts
      1,969
      09-14-2007 03:56 PM #3
      so you have a Passat Passat?

    4. Member brian1973's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 16th, 2007
      Location
      Savannah, GA
      Posts
      3,023
      Vehicles
      MK3 TDi, E36 M3 cab, 996.
      11-23-2008 09:34 AM #4
      from what ive gathered from various tech articles, the difference is the use of neutralized organic acids or an "OAT" type.
      Old "green" antifreeze doesnt use these chemicals. G12 and other long life fluids that say they can be mixed are cool to use because of "oat" chemical compatibility.
      Now concerning what color you will end up with after mixing pink and orange or clear antifreeze fluids is up to the artistic persons.
      VAG is,has, and always will be notorious for "dealer only products and services" which cost the owner thousands of dollars over the life of a vehicle. Its up to us and other mechanics to sift through the BS.

      one reference= search car and driver for "antifreeze"

      FS= 1997 Jetta TDi, rebuilt motor +extras $4800.
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...in-Savannah-GA

    5. Member NOLA_VDubber's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 23rd, 2007
      Location
      New Orleans
      Posts
      5,222
      Vehicles
      98 M3
      11-23-2008 10:01 AM #5
      I long ago switched over to prestone. Screw high-priced dealer-only crap

    6. Former Advertiser Lavi@Unitronic.ca's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 20th, 2008
      Location
      NYC<----->Montreal
      Posts
      1,952
      Vehicles
      05' GLI 10:1 - GT30r - W/M-N2O
      11-23-2008 10:28 AM #6
      Quote, originally posted by Better Thomas »
      You should never add anything other than G12 to G12. You could ask your dealership if they will write something down for you stating that the Prestone caused problems. Any of our testimonies would probably not be admissible. Just for future reference, don't do it . It all kind of comes down to what is in the Prestone (yeah, that sounds simple enough).
      .

      you can always add distilled water. its supposed to be on a 1/1 mix with distilled water anyway, not straight g12


    7. Member thetwodubheads's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 6th, 2004
      Posts
      5,499
      Vehicles
      12 Golf TDI, 12 F-150 Eco Boost
      11-23-2008 10:46 AM #7
      Color will be way off as you have seen, but I used it in my mother-in-law's older Jetta and it had no adverse effects. In small town Mt, you can't get G12 over the counter so we bought the "all makes, all models" stuff. Guy at the counter wanted us to use "Dex-Cool" because it was the closest match to color. It does not gel, or cause excessive corrosion. Just don't use it like the 4 year G12. Flush and re-fill every year if you use "prestone."

    8. n00b
      Join Date
      Nov 22nd, 2010
      Location
      Washington, DC
      Posts
      9
      Vehicles
      2000 Golf GLS
      11-22-2010 04:08 PM #8
      I was driving home on a road trip and my coolant light blinked and beeped at me. Since a VW dealer was no where to be seen, I stopped at an AutoZone and asked for G12 grade coolant.

      They didn't have it (said it was dealer-only stuff) and the store computer recommended Preston Extended Life 50/50 Prediluted Antifreeze/Coolant.

      I ate dinner and let the engine cool; opened the top of the ball and put ~1.5 cups (~400 mL) of this **** into the ball.

      I drove home, and checked the system today after researching the G12 coolant, and the ball has a 1 cm layer of brown emulsion!!!

      Now I don't know if this is a result from mixing the two coolants, or if I have a small oil leak somewhere.

      Is this common?

      I just bought this car 3 months ago...it drives like a dream and has had no problems.

      2000 VW Golf GLS (2.0L engine) with only 58K on the clock.


      The coolant seems to be a common question on VW forums, but I cannot find a complete answer. For the basic details:

      it is phosphate and silicate free, and contains two organic acids (as stabilizers) including 2-ethylhexanoate.

      I was in a rush and would have done an in vitro mix test first. AGGHH!

    9. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 20th, 2010
      Location
      Cleveland, OH
      Posts
      481
      Vehicles
      01 Jetta Wolfsburg
      11-22-2010 04:15 PM #9
      For what it's worth, the mechanic I go to was a head service tech for a VW dealership here before quitting and going into business for himself. He makes no money on parts (only his labor), and still recommends G12, and mixing nothing other than G12 with distilled water.

      He's got no affiliation with VW/Audi other than getting discounted rates on OE parts from the dealership.

      Necro thread revive, too.

    10. n00b
      Join Date
      Nov 22nd, 2010
      Location
      Washington, DC
      Posts
      9
      Vehicles
      2000 Golf GLS
      11-22-2010 04:57 PM #10
      .

      This brown emulsion/precipitate layer is floating on top of the liquid phase in the overflow reservoir. After evaluating the precipitate in the lab (thats right, I work in a chemistry lab), I can confirm that it is not an oil+water emulsion. The solution phase is pale orange/colorless. It appears that the colored dye is a constituent of the precipitated material, however I do not have an portion of unadulterated G12 coolant to do a mix test with in a tube.

      After filtering out the small particulate matter in the coolant, addition of more Prestone Extended Life 50/50 did not induce further precipitation. It appears that the small portion I added did the deed entirely.

      Unfortunately, I live in the city and have no garage or driveway to service my car in, and sold all of my tools before relocating.


      FML. Why do places not carry G12 coolant? That's strike one, VW.

    11. Member NOLA_VDubber's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 23rd, 2007
      Location
      New Orleans
      Posts
      5,222
      Vehicles
      98 M3
      11-22-2010 05:51 PM #11
      As I said back then when I first posted above in 2008, I've never had a problem mixing G12 with a "safe for all vehicles" pre-mixed coolant (I use prestone green). I'm not doubting that something is floating in your coolant ball, just that the mixing of coolants is what caused it.

      Everything I've read suggests that the infamous gelling only occured when people made the switch from G11 to G12. As long as you indeed had G12 in your car, you should be fine. If you strongly feel the added coolant did cause some damage, I'm sure Prestone would be happy to foot the bill as their product plainly states its safe all vehicles.

    12. n00b
      Join Date
      Nov 22nd, 2010
      Location
      Washington, DC
      Posts
      9
      Vehicles
      2000 Golf GLS
      11-23-2010 01:35 PM #12
      as a followup:

      I took my car into the dealership this morning. They flushed the system and refilled with G12 (G-012-A8G-1G); I also picked up some extra quantities of this coolant and a small bottle of powersteering fluid.

      They also replaced the coolant reservoir that was covered and stained by the gook ($54.60 for reservoir, $54 labor)

      and did a "MOC throttle body service" .... I'm assuming this is some sort of aerosol stuff to clean the oil gunk off of everything ($129 total)? We used to get this stuff from my friend who worked at Mopar....

      I will test the compatibility of this newest G12 rendition with the Prestone and report back. This time I will be performing an in vitro test though.

      Thanks for the replies!

      Tim
      Last edited by TimFoley; 11-23-2010 at 05:23 PM.

    13. n00b
      Join Date
      Nov 22nd, 2010
      Location
      Washington, DC
      Posts
      9
      Vehicles
      2000 Golf GLS
      11-23-2010 02:34 PM #13
      I tested this with 50/50 diluted G12 (above) and everything seems happy. used ratios of 50:50 and 90:10 (Prestone:G12) to recreate the conditions in my coolant ball, and neither yielded a precipitate.

      looks like my problem was either

      1.) old coolant that is not equivalent to G-012-A8G-1G and is incompatible with the above Prestone product

      2.) some stopleak **** that had been added previously (unlikely, the service records for the vehicle are impeccible)

      3.) oil in my cooling system (we'll see if this manifests itself with the fresh batch of coolant)

      4.) a 'top up' that was performed at a no-name oil change facility where they put some incompatible antifreeze in.


      needless to say, I wish I had my own garage to do my own work. se la vie.

    14. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 20th, 2010
      Location
      Cleveland, OH
      Posts
      481
      Vehicles
      01 Jetta Wolfsburg
      11-23-2010 03:17 PM #14
      If you do an invitro test in a bowl or bucket or something, that doesn't simulate the heat the coolant is subjected too, along with the cavitation from the pump and whatnot. Not sure if it's an accurate recreation.

    15. Member NOLA_VDubber's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 23rd, 2007
      Location
      New Orleans
      Posts
      5,222
      Vehicles
      98 M3
      11-23-2010 04:26 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by TimFoley View Post
      I tested this with 50/50 diluted G12 (above) and everything seems happy. used ratios of 50:50 and 90:10 (Prestone:G12) to recreate the conditions in my coolant ball, and neither yielded a precipitate.
      Good stuff

    16. n00b
      Join Date
      Nov 22nd, 2010
      Location
      Washington, DC
      Posts
      9
      Vehicles
      2000 Golf GLS
      11-23-2010 05:21 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by Bacon11 View Post
      If you do an invitro test in a bowl or bucket or something, that doesn't simulate the heat the coolant is subjected too, along with the cavitation from the pump and whatnot. Not sure if it's an accurate recreation.
      I placed the samples (in sealed test tubes) in a beaker of boiling water for 30 minutes and yielded no change. only player missing is the trace amount of aluminum oxide that would be dissolved off the engine block.

      it's also noteworthy that both solutions of working strength coolant were basic (pH 8-9)by pH paper (not willing to stick the pH probe in them) and the combined mixtures maintained similar pH values.

      I'm going to yield to the fundamentals of solubility at this point, and confirm that these two coolants mix. However, after the $440 bill to flush my cooling system, replace the coolant ball, and have my oil changed, and that this was the result of mixing coolant; I have to say that I will NEVER again use anything other than manufacturer-certified fluids in my vehicle.
      Last edited by TimFoley; 11-23-2010 at 05:25 PM.

    17. Member bootymac's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 19th, 2005
      Location
      Vancouver, BC
      Posts
      11,604
      Vehicles
      2000 GTI 1.8T, 2012 Kizashi S iAWD
      11-23-2010 05:35 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by TimFoley View Post
      I placed the samples (in sealed test tubes) in a beaker of boiling water for 30 minutes and yielded no change. only player missing is the trace amount of aluminum oxide that would be dissolved off the engine block.

      it's also noteworthy that both solutions of working strength coolant were basic (pH 8-9)by pH paper (not willing to stick the pH probe in them) and the combined mixtures maintained similar pH values.
      You are officially awesome. Thanks for testing this and sharing the results

    18. 11-23-2010 06:16 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by TimFoley View Post
      I placed the samples (in sealed test tubes) in a beaker of boiling water for 30 minutes and yielded no change. only player missing is the trace amount of aluminum oxide that would be dissolved off the engine block.
      The cooling system is under pressure, too.

    19. n00b
      Join Date
      Nov 22nd, 2010
      Location
      Washington, DC
      Posts
      9
      Vehicles
      2000 Golf GLS
      11-26-2010 12:30 AM #19
      Pressure generally has a negligible effect on on the solubility of substances presented to a liquid in a condensed phase of matter (i.e. liquid or solid).


      There's not a whole lot else that can be said about this, except that I would really not mix the coolants, and the price of the G12 ($23) is not that much more than buying extended life coolant; and the hastle of dealing with a mishap is totally not worth saving $5. everyone should have a bottle of this stuff in their trunk just in case.

    20. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 20th, 2010
      Location
      Cleveland, OH
      Posts
      481
      Vehicles
      01 Jetta Wolfsburg
      11-26-2010 10:14 AM #20
      I applaud how well thought out that was, but I still have to question whether or not the pump could mix them, similar to how you use a wisk to mix oil, vinegar and mustard to make salad dressing (mustard or something as an emulsifier... don't look at me like that, I like to cook ).

      Either way, well done. In the end, I'm not planning on mixed anything with my G12... I used a bottle and a half with water to fill up my car, so I've got a jug of pre-mix in my trunk in case I have a crack in another flange that drinks 7 gallons of water in 600 miles (like my drive home from h2o).

    21. 02-22-2011 06:44 PM #21
      any updates?? this is good stuff.

    22. Senior Member 87vr6's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 17th, 2002
      Location
      West coast, of Okinawa (^^)
      Posts
      24,995
      Vehicles
      AWD BT 20TH and EVO VII RS
      02-22-2011 06:50 PM #22
      Yup, green coolant doesn't do anything adverse in modern VW motors...







    23. 02-23-2011 12:29 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by 87vr6 View Post
      Yup, green coolant doesn't do anything adverse in modern VW motors...
      So the green coolant eats VW's aluminum but not GM's?

    24. Member
      Join Date
      Feb 9th, 2011
      Location
      yukon, oklahoma
      Posts
      204
      Vehicles
      2000 Jetta GLS VR6
      02-24-2011 12:47 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by terror_Storm View Post
      The cooling system is under pressure, too.
      in case you didnt notice, this experiment was done under pressure as well. when you heat a liquid, it expands (as dose anything else on this planet you heat up). when something tries to expand, and is in a sealed container, it builds pressure.

    25. n00b
      Join Date
      Nov 22nd, 2010
      Location
      Washington, DC
      Posts
      9
      Vehicles
      2000 Golf GLS
      07-08-2013 09:18 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by undwirtanzten View Post
      in case you didnt notice, this experiment was done under pressure as well. when you heat a liquid, it expands (as dose anything else on this planet you heat up). when something tries to expand, and is in a sealed container, it builds pressure.

      cooling systems are generally held to 1 atmosphere above ambient pressure, the reason being that this increases the temperature that water in the coolant transitions to the gas phase (read: boils). Since I don't see a traditional radiator cap on the system stamped with a rated pressure, I can't state the precise pressure of the system, but I can assure you it is ~ 1 ATM.

      This subtle increase in pressure is enough to accomplish the job, but not of significant mangitude to affect the rate of the chemical reactions as you suggest. When we talk about pressure effecting such thing, it is generally on a scale that is exponents of 10 (e.g. 10, 100 or 1000 times the pressure).

      Any suggestion that the above experiments are invalid because they were not performed "under pressure" are inaccurate.

    26. Member
      Join Date
      Jun 17th, 2013
      Location
      North Royalton, OH
      Posts
      295
      Vehicles
      01 A4 Quattro, 98 DSM(600hp)
      07-09-2013 12:19 AM #27
      Should u mix g12 with any other coolant? No. Will it cause significant engine damage if you do this? No. G12 should not be mixed with other coolants. You should only run one or the other. To the OP, you should just drain your coolant system, flush it out, and fill it with a 50/50 mix of g12 and water or prestone and water. G12 has its benefits but is also more expensive. The post above with the corroded cylinder head I guarantee did not happen from running generic coolant mixed with water. Mixing the 2 coolants can cause corrosion, premature wear on parts, weak heat, etc over time. All in all for $40 or so why would you not run g12 coolant? It is designed for the car and costs only a little bit more than the generic coolant. But if you do or have in the past run generic coolant it is nothing to worry about.

    27. 07-09-2013 09:02 AM #28
      Canadian Immo 2 and 3 defeat service, PM for more information.

    28. 07-09-2013 11:11 AM #29
      Hey, I found this dead horse, wanna beat it?

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •