mk5 Jetta/Golf 4motion conversion findings

[Audi4u]

I wonder how much it weighs

[maloosheck]

Quote, originally posted by EL_3grab »

It looks like vr6 has the same bolt pattern as any 1.8/1.9/2.0/2.5 inline... Good to know. Seems the r32 mk5 could be a donor for any mk5...

[flint2.5jetta]

if this works, i'm gonna do this. this is so awsome.

[Audi4u]

Quote, originally posted by maloosheck »

It looks like vr6 has the same bolt pattern as any 1.8/1.9/2.0/2.5 inline... Good to know. Seems the r32 mk5 could be a donor for any mk5...

Maybe because I just woke up, but the doesn't look as if the bolt pattern is the same as any other bolt pattern except for the vr6.

[maloosheck]

Quote, originally posted by Audi4u »

Maybe because I just woke up, but the doesn't look as if the bolt pattern is the same as any other bolt pattern except for the vr6.

I think I was wrong. Indeed the pattern looks different.

[mercury26]

Sounds like an Audi TT or the (new) A3, 2.0T DSG Quattros are the best donor cars.

Cheers,

Chuck

[jetta9103]

Quote, originally posted by Marshmallow Man »

whats the orientation of the tiguan 2.0t? after all is said and done probably better just buyin the tiguan

tiguan is oriented just like the golf. i'd assume most of the parts are plug and play (key word: assume). probably just a good of a suggestion.

[mercury26]

Quote, originally posted by jetta9103 »

tiguan is oriented just like the golf. i'd assume most of the parts are plug and play (key word: assume). probably just a good of a suggestion.

Except the Tiguan does not come with 4Motion with DSG or 6MT, I believe it is the same Aisin (read crap) transmission in the Passat.

Cheers,

Chuck

[gilotin661]

nice auto trans but i like to see a 6spd 4motion trans that'll bolt on to 2.0T motor?

[maloosheck]

I am looking for the pictures of the exhaust from the mk5 Golf/Golf Variant 4motion (TDI or gasser, but not R32).

[sipes216]

question for you all.

lets speak on the jetta wagon...

what all pain would i have to suffer to convert that beast?
anyone gotten under one?

[maloosheck]

It should be even easier. In EU they have Golf Variant TDI 4Motion, so it is just the matter of cash to bring the parts here.

[sipes216]

well, that's a great answer, however that's not quite where my question ends.

i'm a mechanic, i'l weasel myself around the transmission however i have to, to get it in.

i'm speaking more of how do you tell the car "hey, you're AWD now!"
how do you tell the trans control module to start acting in 4mo?
the drive train differential (referred to as "splitter") HAS to have some sort of electronic linkage to the vehicle for the engagement of electro-clutches...

piecing the car together is easy, just getting it working is something else.

also, do we have a price list for these?

and for the trans, how exactly would i have it shipped over?
does anyone have any model part numbers of the transmission, and who can i source the parts from?

taken from VWoA's jetta sportswagon spec page:
gear------regular DSG-----TDI DSG
1st---------3.36 (3.46)----3.77 (3.46)
2nd--------2.09 (2.15)----2.09 (2.05)
3rd---------1.47 (1.46)-----1.32 (1.30)
4th---------1.10 (1.08)----0.98 (0.90)
5th---------1.11 (1.09)----0.98 (0.91)
6th---------0.93 (0.92)----0.81 (0.76)
R-----------1.64 (3.98)----4.55 (3.99)
Final I-----3.94 (4.06)----3.45 (4.12)
Final II----3.09 (3.14)----2.76 (3.04)

[maloosheck]

Quote, originally posted by sipes216 »

i'm speaking more of how do you tell the car "hey, you're AWD now!" how do you tell the trans control module to start acting in 4mo? the drive train differential (referred to as "splitter") HAS to have some sort of electronic linkage to the vehicle for the engagement of electro-clutches...

Haldex has its own module controlling the rear drive clutch. The module uses CAN-BUS and hand brake signals to determine the need for engaging the rear drive. Haldex module uses ABS controller to provide the Haldex module with signals from acceleration sensor. Therefore, you need a car with ESP. There are few other signals used from the following sensors: rpms sensor, acceleration pedal position, all 4 wheel rotation sensors, both brakes sensors.

I have seen the custom stand-alone Haldex control module that was not connected to the CAN-BUS and that was made solely for the drag racing. It allowed to transfer the power to the rear drive 0-100% and only for the first two or three gears.

[Exodusx7x]

Just curious regarding the tranny out of the new r32. I have been wondering if the trans (being dsg only in us) would be a bolt on for the 2.0t? anyone have a clue? I currently have a dsg in my 08 gti and would love to dump some coin into a awd conversion or on the more crazy side Source a v10 tt toureg motor and drop that into my Gti

[maloosheck]

Quote, originally posted by Exodusx7x »

I have been wondering if the trans (being dsg only in us) would be a bolt on for the 2.0t?

Based on the pictures above it seems the r32 DSG tranny will not fit 2.0T.

[Exodusx7x]

Well sipes I figure that instead of fiddling with all the elictrical mumbo jumbo I'll just yell at my car really loud and bam awd..... But seriously The electrical should be the easy part is fitting all the mechanical crap that would be a royal pain. I figure as long as the rear suspension could be bolted on for the most part aside from a random bracket or what have you then the only real problem would be figuring out a tranny and T case setup... then all you need to put it all together is alot of

[maloosheck]

Quote, originally posted by Exodusx7x »

I figure as long as the rear suspension could be bolted on for the most part aside from a random bracket or what have you then the only real problem would be figuring out a tranny and T case setup... then all you need to put it all together is alot of

Well, fuel tank is another thing to figure out. Not to mention the exhaust.

But we might have more information soon, as I am actively searching for anything I can bring from Europe to move from Research Phase to Attempt Phase

[Exodusx7x]

I was mulling this over with a buddy of mine and he suggested looking into some Audi goodies. doesn't the new Audi tt have like the awd and 2.0t engine with dsg? If so then that solves the tranny problem. Fuel tank is something to consider but the whole exhaust thing is simple nothing some creative piping wouldn't solve

[AtomicOnionMan]

It seems very likely that the Audi and VW transverse AWD platforms will share a great many parts. In fact, I don't think it too far-fetched to think that one could even use the rear sub frame from a Quattro TT on the MkV platform. I myself have pondered trying to find a totaled TT S-line from which to salvage the K04 turbo, 6-speed manual transmission, and rear subframe to use on my MkV GTI. I don't have any proof of concept, but I really can't imagine these parts would be any different.


Modified by AtomicOnionMan at 7:43 PM 6-25-2008

[maloosheck]

Quote, originally posted by AtomicOnionMan »

I myself have pondered trying to find a totaled TT S-line from which to salvage the K04 turbo, 6-speed manual transmission, and rear subframe to use on my MkV GTI.

1. Is there any 2.0L (either gas or diesel) quattro TT available in US?
2. Per audiusa website only 3.2 has permanent quattro drive. Per HPA it is still Haldex. If it is Haldex, it is most likely exactly the same as in mk5 R32.

Per available drawings it seems like it is exactly the same as mk5 R32:

[AtomicOnionMan]

If I'm not mistaken, the Audi TT S line, which I believe is offered in the US, is the 265 hp 2.0T with quattro AWD. I believe you can also get a TT 3.2 in quattro with both DSG and manual transmissions for those considering either option.

[maloosheck]

Quote, originally posted by AtomicOnionMan »

If I'm not mistaken, the Audi TT S line, which I believe is offered in the US, is the 265 hp 2.0T with quattro AWD. I believe you can also get a TT 3.2 in quattro with both DSG and manual transmissions for those considering either option.

S-line in US is still FWD. But the fact that 3.2 is in 6MT is worth noting.

[Exodusx7x]

god with the sound of a gnarly r32 exhaust note and having awd standard I might just sell my mk5 and buy an r32 lol

[jetta9103]

Quote, originally posted by maloosheck »

2. Per audiusa website only 3.2 has permanent quattro drive. Per HPA it is still Haldex. If it is Haldex, it is most likely exactly the same as in mk5 R32.

Permanent? In the TT VR6? No...it is also Haldex.

[maloosheck]

Quote, originally posted by jetta9103 »

Permanent? In the TT VR6? No...it is also Haldex.

So do you think the Haldex controller is programmed differently, or the whole "permanent quattro" is just a marketing.

[jetta9103]

No, it may be programmed slighlty different than a A3 or a Golf, but it is still mostly FWD under normal conditions. maybe they mean "permanent" in that the hardware is always there? or that there is always a minor bit of torque being tranferred to the rear? lol

[Wizz]

In ETKA the mkV GTI and R32 chasie is different..
Dont you think that could be a problem? :/
I was thinking about puting 4motion from r32 to my gti too, but i doubt its possible :/

[maloosheck]

Remember that R32 has completely different exhaust than anything else. On the other hand you might be right: GTI has a spare wheel, R32 does not have one. With Jetta/Golf Variant there is no problem, because spare is moved far back.


Modified by maloosheck at 5:35 PM 8-27-2008

[maloosheck]

Well, it's time to move from theory to practice. I was in Europe in May and I found few parts from mk5 Golf 1.9 TDI 4Motion. After 3 months I have finally picked them up today. Here we go:

1. 6-speed MT for TDI 4Motion (FWZ) - it might require some changes to the gear ratio in the future, but at this point the most important was it should bolt in to my engine without any problems.

2. Transfer case from this transmission:

3. Haldex and rear differential:

4. Rear subframe and rear axles (still wrapped):

The plan is to try to install everything in 3 phases:
1. Front: Transmission + axles
2. Rear: Fuel tank + rear suspension
3. Connection: shaft + ABS

I am planning to pair engine with transmission using EU-spec 240mm DMF/clutch kit from PD170. It should handle my current torque as well as expected future upgrades.

This is how it arrived:

And this is how I transported everything home:

The whole load weighted 183kg per Bill of Lading (not sure if it is gross or net of packaging). Even with two transmissions on board (one under the hood and one in a trunk) the car was accelerating quite well.

[Marshmallow Man]

can't wait to see the progress on this!

[Old Frog]

Mike; Good call. Your photos are consistent with what I had been told about the O2q and the transfer case. Good luck with the project. INteresting to read the flywheel choice.

Bob

[SBAtdijetta]

Makes my simple thoughts of a just a FWD 6spd with an LSD in my TDI seem very easy.

[EL_3grab]

That's just great

what you will be doing regarding the fuel tank ?

[maloosheck]

Quote, originally posted by EL_3grab »

what you will be doing regarding the fuel tank ?

Replace with Golf Variant 4motion one. Unfortunately, when I was in EU, I could not find one. I have to order it from here.