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    Thread: cold start / rough idle / misfire

    1. Member
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      12-03-2007 10:16 AM #1
      I searched through a lot of posts on this topic. Almost everyone is describing an idle that hunts around and won't settle at the proper RPM.
      My problem is different. On some cold mornings, the car won't stay running at all without me giving it gas, and runs REALLY rough like it is only firing on two or three cylinders. It smooths out in less than a minute, but I have to rev it up and down several times to get the cylinders firing, if that makes any sense. It has a new T-belt, cap, rotor, plugs, and wires as of Spring time, and was running perfect all summer.

      Could the camshaft position sensor be causing this? Coil? Right now I am getting codes for the CPS, the MAF, and the 02 pre-cat sensor, kind of a chicken-and-egg scenario.

      Running update of parts that are new or recently changed, as of 02/3/08:

      Plugs, wires, cap, rotor from GAP in spring '07
      T-belt, tensioner, thermostat from GAP, spring '07
      PCV pipe
      cleaned PCV valve, replaced breather pipe
      battery
      catalytic converter
      MAF sensor
      coil
      O2 sensor
      MAF sensor again
      two tiny vacuum hoses near FPR




      Modified by RabbitsKin at 12:43 AM 2-8-2008


    2. 12-03-2007 02:45 PM #2
      hows the battery.

    3. Senior Member Dan J Reed's Avatar
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      12-03-2007 02:48 PM #3
      If the car starts the battery is fine.

      Clean the TB, and ISV.

      Start from there.

      and if they are cheap (non OEM) parts in there, (plugs, wires, etc..) they are junk... swap-em out.

      Clean the MAF.

      Check the belt timing, often thats the cause of the CAM code.


      Modified by Dan J Reed at 6:50 PM 12-3-2007


    4. 12-03-2007 02:50 PM #4
      iac?



    5. Senior Member Dan J Reed's Avatar
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      12-03-2007 02:50 PM #5
      ISV/IAC Idle Air control Valve, Idle Stabilizer Valve

      * OBDI cars only.


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      12-03-2007 04:12 PM #6
      Car is OBDII, TB is clean, parts were from GAP, belt teeth are spot-on (been running perfect all summer). Will definitely clean the MAF....would the theory there be that some whacked-out reading is causing the timing to be pulled so far that the car won't run? It runs fine after the first minute or so.

      The only other symptom has been a slightly erratic idle, which has kind of always been there, but the other day it almost died on me at a stop light. Never did that before, hasn't done it since.


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      12-03-2007 05:22 PM #7
      Cleaned MAF, cleaned TB, disconnected battery to reset codes. Still has a CEL, but we'll see how she does on cold starts in the next few days.



    8. 12-03-2007 06:04 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by RabbitsKin »
      Could the camshaft position sensor be causing this?
      If the cps is bad the car will not start. I'm not sure if this sensor can slowly die though and possibly cause a rough idle.

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      12-03-2007 06:42 PM #9
      You know now that you say that, I'm wondering if I am remembering the right fault code. I had 5 of them, two of which were misfires.

      Update: after cleaning the MAF and TB, and clearing the codes, I took a trip down to Autozone to get the new codes read. P0131 and P1128, 02 sensor and MAF, so I'm guessing my MAF is just toast.


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      12-12-2007 09:33 AM #10
      Update:

      Got a good low-mileage MAF. Car ran beautiful yesterday, smoother idle than before. This morning is very wet, and the car was up to its old tricks again. VERY rough idle for the first minute, I could see and smell that the exhaust was very rich. I'm beginning to think it is the coil.

      Any thoughts?


    11. Member 2pt. slo's Avatar
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      12-12-2007 11:24 AM #11
      Quote, originally posted by RabbitsKin »
      Update:

      I'm beginning to think it is the coil.

      Any thoughts?

      x2


    12. Senior Member Dan J Reed's Avatar
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      12-12-2007 11:50 AM #12
      Coil.

      Spray it down with a mist of water see if it chokes.


    13. 12-14-2007 09:55 AM #13
      Bump im getting the exact same codes as you are. I got halfway to work today and my car was bogging so i decided to take it to autozone. He said that my 02 sensor was toast. Ive been told i have a bad cat and the autozone guy said that might be my culprit for all my misshaps. I just replaced the ignition coil and the coilpack so i dont think its that.

      Can a bad cat make my car bogg and die? Its only doing this when its really humid or the air is really wet. He also said my secondary air pump threw a code. thanks


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      12-14-2007 09:57 AM #14
      Only experience with clogged cats I've ever had was the opposite....it would bog at high rpm, but idle fine.


    15. Member cartercdad's Avatar
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      12-14-2007 09:57 AM #15
      i had a bad cat and it killed my o2 sensor and my coil was bad as well. get a new coil wires plugs new cat and o2 sensor. but check you cat before you buy one you should be able to see through it

    16. 12-14-2007 10:00 AM #16
      My cat is gutted. Its toast and i just replaced the cap not to long ago. I dont wanna buy new spark plugs because i have nuespeed ones. Are the nuespeed ones bad?

    17. Senior Member Dan J Reed's Avatar
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      12-14-2007 10:36 AM #17
      Quote, originally posted by cartercdad »
      i had a bad cat and it killed my o2 sensor and my coil was bad as well. get a new coil wires plugs new cat and o2 sensor. but check you cat before you buy one you should be able to see through it

      Actually, the cat did not kill anything.

      The coil killed the O2 sensor (too rich) and that in turn also wiped out the converter.


    18. 12-14-2007 11:31 AM #18
      Do i need a new distributer?

    19. 12-18-2007 04:39 PM #19
      I have read several forums on this and was told it was the coolant sensor.
      Have you had any luck fixing the cold start issue?

      I have the same problem that when i start my car, it idles horribly likes its only hitting 2-3 of the cylinders, however when you give it a small rev, the problem goes away.

      I am taking it to VW today, but if you could post up the resolve to this issue, would be most appreciated.


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      12-18-2007 04:51 PM #20
      I have my new coil in-hand, will probably be putting it on tomorrow. It has a little door that opens near the 3-prong plug, revealing what looks like a fuseable link or set of contacts, which I think I will fill with silicone to prevent future moisture. I'll update the post with results.

    21. Member cartercdad's Avatar
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      12-19-2007 09:58 PM #21
      you know what i mean but yes that is what happened now i just ned to put on the new cat o2 and muffler

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      12-20-2007 04:23 PM #22
      Got the old coil out today, cracking everywhere:



      Here is a link to more pics:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3598641


      Sealed up the NEW coil with silicone and some spray-on rubber coating. We'll see what happens when it dries. I guess removing my heat shield from the manifold wasn't such a great idea?




      Modified by RabbitsKin at 9:22 AM 12-22-2007


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      12-20-2007 04:40 PM #23

      Nothing. Not even the slightest change in the car's cold start behavior. Looks like I am back to square 1. I guess I'll clear the codes, have them read at Autozone and see if I am still getting an O2 sensor code.


    24. Senior Member Dan J Reed's Avatar
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      12-22-2007 01:06 AM #24
      That coil is too far gone to save.

      Its arcing internally to its frame.

      I am sure of it.

      Nice pics tho.!


    25. Banned PELLA's Avatar
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      12-22-2007 01:29 AM #25
      get thinner oil

    26. 12-22-2007 01:35 AM #26
      Quote, originally posted by rune3711 »
      If the cps is bad the car will not start. I'm not sure if this sensor can slowly die though and possibly cause a rough idle.

      not always the case. my CPS is bad, shoots a code every day. runs like a champ... just an example.


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      12-22-2007 01:36 AM #27
      When I had a MAF problem a little while ago, I swapped out a coil with 50K on it. Two longish hairline cracks had already begun to form.

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      12-28-2007 04:15 PM #28
      Quote, originally posted by RabbitsKin »
      I searched through a lot of posts on this topic. Almost everyone is describing an idle that hunts around and won't settle at the proper RPM.
      My problem is different. On some cold mornings, the car won't stay running at all without me giving it gas, and runs REALLY rough like it is only firing on two or three cylinders. It smooths out in less than a minute, but I have to rev it up and down several times to get the cylinders firing, if that makes any sense. It has a new T-belt, cap, rotor, plugs, and wires as of Spring time, and was running perfect all summer.

      Could the camshaft position sensor be causing this? Coil? Right now I am getting codes for the CPS, the MAF, and the 02 pre-cat sensor, kind of a chicken-and-egg scenario.

      Running update of parts that are new or recently changed, as of 12/21/07:

      Plugs, wires, cap, rotor from GAP in spring '07
      T-belt, tensioner, thermostat from GAP, spring '07
      PCV pipe
      cleaned PCV valve
      battery
      catalytic converter
      MAF sensor
      coil

      l


      Modified by RabbitsKin at 9:28 AM 12-22-2007

      I too have a very similar problem with my 2.0. It only seems to happen in the winter and I have replaced/cleaned almost all of the same parts as you too. It idles really rough and when I give it gas it misses a bit, like it isn't firing on all cylinders and it is clearly running rich when cold.

      I haven't been able to figure this one out either. I'm starting to think that oil may leaking and fouling up the plugs when the car sits for the night. But not enough to wreck the plugs? That would mean that it should run like $hit all year round though and not just in the winter, so that part doesn't make sense,

      Oh, and I have NEVER had a CEL come on in my car...EVER. It seems kind of strange to me considering how common it is.


      Modified by jeff323 at 8:19 PM 12-28-2007


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      12-28-2007 05:03 PM #29
      Just paid for an 02 sensor, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Current theory is that the bad sensor is throwing the mixture off, causing soot buildup on the plugs. This in turn causes rough running until it burns off (?). I don't know, it's just a theory.

      With mine, it always runs smooth after the first 30 sec. to a minute or so. I thought it was cold/wet weather related, but maybe that is a coincidence.


    30. 12-28-2007 05:23 PM #30
      Could be your TPS too. I was having similar problems that were driving me nuts and replaced/cleaned everything like you and still had problems. Scanned it again and had a code for TPS...replaced and been running fine since.

    31. 12-28-2007 06:10 PM #31
      i am now having the same problems but it seems to get worse..stalls, even when the car is warmed up it still does it..idles bad..engine shakes especially in gear and idling..i have had all these things fixed, anti freeze, coils, spark plugs, timing belt, alternator, battery , o2 sensor, vaccume hose...my boyfriend did the last 2 things...but still shaking and not running really good..especially in the cold..its been doing it for awhile but not its even worse..we have been trying to figure it out..because he can work on it if he knows what really is causing it...would like to get it fixed so i can sell it and get a newer one

    32. Member themagellan's Avatar
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      12-28-2007 08:12 PM #32
      Same thing here.

    33. 12-29-2007 02:47 AM #33
      mine does same thing.. idles like ish and stalls when i first start it.. i just thought it was the 268 deg. cam.. curious to see what you guys find

    34. Member
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      12-29-2007 11:59 AM #34
      A bad coil will foul plugs, too. Multiple cylinder misfires.

    35. Senior Member Dan J Reed's Avatar
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      12-29-2007 01:13 PM #35
      Could be people just keep guessing until things are fixed.

      Start with the basics. Which it sounds like you covered.

      But dont forget that internal engine parts like valve seals also wear and cause a rough start.

      I am very glad I swapped mine out last winter. Its seemed to have fixed my blue smoke/poor start/fuel rich smell at start up. The oil was leaking down onto a valve and causing the cylinder to foul on a cold start.

      The colder the weather the worse it was. The valve guide shrinks at a different rate than the valve stem. And the seals leak.


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