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    Thread: Clutch pedal bushing

    1. 01-12-2008 08:45 PM #1
      Over the past year depressing my clutch pedal has become more and more of a chore. I replaced the clutch a couple years ago. I suspect it's the clutch pedal bushing (where the pedal pivots about). I can't seem to find a reference to it in the Bentley and have had no luck on any web sites either.

      My 83 camaro had a nylon bushing that I had to replace about every 60k miles (a lot of city driving). my 87 cab has 140k on it. anyone know the part number for this item? is it nylon, brass or some other material?

      I'm about to replace the steering wheel shaft bearing and the driver side seat rail nylon runners, so I was hoping to get everything done at the same time while I had the front seats out -- want to minimize 'down' time -- still 'top down' weather here in central florida - it was 80 degrees today!


    2. Member sehaare's Avatar
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      01-12-2008 08:53 PM #2
      Also check where the Clutch cable passes through the firewall. The tube has been known to break off and then the cable starts to rub and saw through the metal.

      Steve

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      01-13-2008 01:01 AM #3
      Have you replaced the clutch cable? That's where I would start. Over a period of time the cable saws its way into the plastic shield and pedal resistance increases.

      And it seems to me that if the pedal bushing were worn, then the clutch pedal would wobble rather than be tight. You might try lubing it, however.


    4. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      01-13-2008 11:51 AM #4
      No bushing; the cable end simply slides onto a bracket on the back of the pedal arm.

      Quote, originally posted by spriteman707 »
      Over the past year depressing my clutch pedal has become more and more of a chore.

      Replace the cable; it'll seem like a night-and-day difference. Mine was doing the same thing, almost to the point where I thought the cable was going break. Installed a new cable... my left leg is highly thankful.

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    5. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      01-14-2008 12:13 AM #5
      There is indeed a bushing for the clutch pedal on it's pivot shaft, identical to the one for the brake pedal pivot.
      Part number is 171 721 153 C .

      That bushing is not on the list of common problems though. Unless your pedal has angular slop and play, it's not 1st on the list of things to change when the clutch pedal is stiff.
      #1 on the list is the cable.
      Clutch and throttle cables are odd to diagnose. Either cable, when removed from the car will often feel smooth and fine, yet when installed, they bind.
      Get a new cable, they're only around $15, shouldn't take a 1st timer more that 15 minutes, after changing one or two, it'll take about 5 minutes or less. You've already done a clutch, cable will be easy.

      Continued operation with a stiff clutch (for any reason) WILL eventually break the cable housing stop off of the pedal cluster.




      vwvortex search is weak. Instead, type search terms site:http://forums.vwvortex.com into the google search box.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+

    6. 01-14-2008 12:32 PM #6
      thanks everyone, all great info. I guess I should have mentioned that the clutch cable was replaced when I had the clutch redone a couple years ago. I actually didn't do the clutch myself -- bad back at the time. the clutch/cable only have about 15k miles on them.

      I got my head up under the dash over the weekend and it looks like the plastic tube where the cable feeds through the firewall is completely intact. however, the cable is angled down (maybe 40-45 degrees) with respect to where it exits the plastic tube. it's definitely rubbing on the tube. at that angle, I don't see how it CAN'T rub against the tube. is the cable supposed to exit the tube in a more parallel fashion? in other words, doesn't the cable need to be more parallel to the tube inside walls?

      it's a long shot, but does anyone have a photo of how the cable is supposed to attach to the clutch pedal? it just looks like it isn't installed properly at the connection point with the pedal.

      I'm going to try and take a picture and post it here although I'm not too sure how well it will turn out in that cramped space.


    7. Member sehaare's Avatar
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      01-14-2008 02:09 PM #7
      I have the broken tube problem on my 92 and If I remember right, Ron posted a good pic of the cable to help me out. I'm at work right now and they block pictures here so I can't look for it myself right now but Ron will more-than-likely be by soon and hopefully he can hook you up.

      Steve

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      01-14-2008 08:14 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by sehaare »
      ....more-than-likely be by soon.....


      I've got pics of two ways to fix the broken tube on the pedal cluster, also a two frame animation of the clutch arm on the transaxle operating, nothing specific on the clutch cable itself.
      Senility creep is a possibility here, Steve, what have I posted I've forgotten about??



      vwvortex search is weak. Instead, type search terms site:http://forums.vwvortex.com into the google search box.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+

    9. Member vwpoorboy's Avatar
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      01-14-2008 11:50 PM #9
      I'm watching this thread closely as I recently noticed I have the same problem. I used my right foot to actuate the pedal... and WHOA it feels like it's gonna break!

      I also noticed I've got very little adjustment left on the cable.


    10. Member sehaare's Avatar
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      01-15-2008 12:52 PM #10
      I must have been thinking about one of the tube pictures. I just remember thinking "how in the hell did he get up there to get that picture" maybe it was just the tube and not the pedal.

      Steve

      "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess." - Man's Prayer

      "Quando omni flunkus moritati"

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    11. 01-15-2008 03:03 PM #11
      Well, between the minimal space and my d*mn progressive bifocals sliding off my nose every 5 seconds I managed to take some shots. It appears the end of the cable with the slotted nylon rod slips over a finger ‘J’ hook flange that’s on the end of the clutch pedal. Whether this is how it’s supposed to be – I don’t know. My confusion originally was because of the two half inch dia holes that are in two parallel flanges just before the finger hook. It almost seems like there should be some kind of pivot pin that goes in the holes? It’s not clear what the holes are for.

      Anyway, you can kind of see where the cable hits the plastic tube in the firewall. The cable hits at the 12 o’clock position (as you are viewing from the drivers seat).

      Assuming the cable is installed correctly, can I lubricate the tube with something and possibly reduce the friction? Some moly or lithium maybe?

      view from bottom lookin up

      close up of finger hook

      cable contact with tube

      another bottom view


    12. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      01-16-2008 12:10 AM #12
      Looks to me like the cable housing stop on the pedal cluster has broken it's welds, shows pretty well in your 1st and 3rd pics.

      Yeah, it's a tough place to photograph, this one's just a slightly better view of a non-broken tube.......


      This is one that was oxy/acetylene welded in back place, in the car. If you do this, BE SURE TO ATTEND TO THE FUEL VAPOR LINE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FIREWALL BEFORE YOU LIGHT THE TORCH!! Just disconnect the left end of the line, temporarily route it out og harm's way.


      This is a double nutted bolt down through the rain tray to offer reinforcement to the repaired tube, it looks backwards because the pic was taken in a mirror......


      This one is the cheap, easy fix, made from 3/4" hardware store galvanized pipe parts, a reversed and trimmed floor flange and a short stub of pipe, threaded one end.

      I've got a few more pics of these parts, somewhere. They're not yet uploaded, leeme know if this needs elaboration, I'm sure I can find those pics. Eventually.
      ---

      After all that, you should still plan on changing the cable, it's likely the cause of the tube breakage in the 1st place, no amount of lube or wishful thinking will fix it.

      vwvortex search is weak. Instead, type search terms site:http://forums.vwvortex.com into the google search box.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+

    13. Member sehaare's Avatar
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      01-16-2008 07:08 AM #13
      I agree with Ron, it looks like I guessed right and it is the infamous broken tube.

      When I replace my clutch cable I found that the previous owner had done his own attempt at fixing a broken tube. It not a great work of art but it works (once I figure out what the hell was going on).

      Here is what the end of your clutch cable looks like

      and here is the whole cable

      The white tube that you see your cable hitting is actually the inside of the end of the cable.

      The cable passes through a tube in the firewall and the end of the clutch cable pushes up against the tube to hold the cable in place when you push in on the clutch.

      Here is a view of mine from under the hood with the rigged tube.


      and here is the rigged part that the previous owner made up to replace the broken tube. Again not a real work of art but it works.

      My advice to you at this point is to order a new cable (pretty cheap as I remember) and take your old one out to see exactly what you are dealing with and then rigg something up.

      Stee


      Modified by sehaare at 6:09 AM 1-16-2008


      Modified by sehaare at 7:30 AM 1-16-2008

      "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to, I guess." - Man's Prayer

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      01-16-2008 07:59 PM #14
      I was just searching for the possibility of a hydraulic clutch operation, but most of what I found was hyd to cable

      Anybody know what this would involve? Ron?

      So far I have a few possible cuplrits in my stiff cable issue. Time to spend some time under the dash


    15. 01-16-2008 10:25 PM #15
      First off, let me say – great photos. They helped explain a few things and caused some head scratch’n as well. Secondly, I must be as dense as a rock, cause I still can’t picture what the infamous ‘tube’ is supposed to look like.

      Steve’s photo of the cable assy on the floor was helpful, until he said

      Quote, originally posted by sehaare »
      The white tube that you see your cable hitting is actually the inside of the end of the cable.

      there is no white part on the cable in steve’s photo other than the slotted nylon rod at the end (I was trying to compare his cable photo to mine). So I went to the GAP web site and looked up the part and finally understood that the white plastic circle in my photo is the end of the cable assy (as steve stated).

      okay, so I went back to ron’s first photo which shows a ‘slightly better view of a non-broken tube.......’

      and compared it to my third photo

      now, maybe it’s just me, but these two photos look very similar. The ONLY difference I see is the white tube at the end of my cable appears to be sticking into the passenger compartment a little too far – thus when the cable operates the white tube is wearing out along its perimeter due to the cable rubbing it. It’s as if whoever installed the cable assy when I had my clutch done installed it too far into the passenger side of the firewall.

      Which brings me to my next question -- what is the black angled conic part that encircles the white tube in my photo and the white tube in ron’s photo? Is this part of the broken tube you are referring to? Is there supposed to be a lip on the black conic part that prevents the white cable tube from going too far into the passenger compartment? What is the tube made of -- is it metal?

      as suggested, I ordered a cable assy from GAP. I think once I get the old one out and get a good look at how everything is situated, I will have my “ahaaa” moment.


    16. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      01-17-2008 12:01 AM #16
      The color of the plastic bits at both ends of the cable housing don't indicate anything at all, sometimes they're black, sometimes white, sometimes mixed. I guess it randomly depends on when and where the cable was manufactured. So far in this thread are pics of black/black and black/white, both are correct.
      ----
      Compare this....


      With this.....


      The black 'conic' flange in your pic IS the upper cable housing stop that breaks away from the pedal cluster. Give yours a wiggle, it shouldn't move at all, rather it should be securely welded to the cluster. My pic shows where the welds should be, although there is a bit more weld bead in my repair than there was as manufactured.

      vwvortex search is weak. Instead, type search terms site:http://forums.vwvortex.com into the google search box.
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+

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