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    VWVortex


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    Thread: Oil pressure for 1972 Volkswagen Supper Beetle 1600.

    1. 01-22-2008 12:17 PM #1
      I bought a 1972 Supper beetle.
      One of the many things that I have found with this car is a very high oil pressure. When cold it runs a bit over 80 psi.
      There is an after-market oild filter installed and it has blown the gasket out of this.
      I think I have that problem solved.
      I had to tighten it well beyond hand tight.
      The question is will this engine run with 80 psi with out dammage?
      The previous owner seemed to think he had a hot rod.
      He had 5 1/2 wide tires installed, a short shifter, a device to lock the front breaks, electric fuel pump, a small dry type air filter, headers and the oil pressure gauge.
      I'm wondering if he installed a oil pump that would produce that pressure or found another way to increase it.

      John


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      01-23-2008 02:57 AM #2
      "The question is will this engine run with 80 psi with out damage?"
      Probably not,maximum recommended stock is 28psi.
      From your description of the other modifications he made he probably went a little overboard by doubling up stiffer or longer oil pressure relief springs along with taller oil pressure relief pistons,or you just have one or both pistons stuck.
      You can access them by crawling under the left rear of the engine,there's two large,flathead screwdriver type plugs,one at the back of the engine,one at the front.Once the plugs are removed the springs should just fall out first followed by the pistons.
      If they both fall out on their own at both spots they weren't stuck,so you need to check the length of the springs to see if they've been stretched or taller pistons mistakenly installed.
      If the springs fall out on their own but not the pistons,there's a problem with them being stuck and they'd have to be pulled out manually,cleaned up and their bores inspected for wear.
      What weight oil are you running?
      High performance oil pumps generally deliver just more volume on high demand,not neccessarily more pressure,so it's doubtful that that's the problem,it's got to be a restriction after the pressure guage sender.

    3. 01-23-2008 03:25 PM #3
      I went under the car this afternoon and removed both of the control valves. Both pistons stayed in the engine but it din't take much to free them.
      I will clean them and get it so that they will fall out on their own.
      I'll also have to find out what length those springs are.
      I do know where I can get a couple of others to try.
      I use 10W30 oil and the ambiant temp was around -5c.

      Thanks for your input.
      John


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      01-24-2008 12:27 AM #4
      The oil pressure relief valve spring at the pulley end of the engine(rear) should be 1.73"(44.1mm)long.
      The oil pressure control valve spring at the flywheel end of the engine(front) should be .79"(20.2mm)long.
      Both of the valves should look identical,like a small upsidedown barrel,if one or both have what looks like it's wearing a hat at the closed end then that would be a high pressure modification like
      http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDe...D5326 .
      10W30 looks good for your ambient conditions http://www.valvoline.com/products/All-Climate.pdf .
      If the valves and springs seem to be correct then the only other things I can think of might be either too close tolerances on the main and/or cam bearings during assembly or some kind of relationship glitch between the OP sending unit and the guage.

    5. 01-24-2008 04:04 PM #5
      Thanks for that. It will be a few days befor I can get back at the car again but I will let you know how it goes.

      John


    6. 02-01-2008 08:20 PM #6
      Update for your information.
      I got another set of springs and valves and put them in the engine. I got the same results.
      I then decided to check the oil pressure with another mechanical type gauge.
      I did this today and this one showed the pressure to be 40 to 45 psi.
      The engine was cold and I ran it for about 10 minutes and it still showed 40 to 45 psi.
      I don’t think I mentioned that the engine was supposed to have been rebuilt within the last 1000 miles.
      Do you think that the 45 psi is a more reasonable number?

      John


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      02-01-2008 11:10 PM #7
      "Do you think that the 45 psi is a more reasonable number?"

      Double checking with the seperate mechanical guage shows that there is a problem with the relationship between the in-car sender and guage .

      "rebuilt within the last 1000 miles."
      That would explain a little higher reading for that engine,it sounds like it was set up with and still running a little tight with rather close tolerances,not neccesarily a bad thing,the standard recommended pressure for all engines of earlier design than yours is 42psi @ 2500rpm,so after some more running time(~5 to 10k miles) you'll probably see the #'s drop maybe into the high 30's psi range as it continues to break in .

      "There is an after-market oil filter installed and it has blown the gasket out of this.I think I have that problem solved."
      You may want to consider picking up original VW replacement filters,part # 068-115-561-B,they have both high and low pressure relief valves built into them .


    8. 02-02-2008 07:29 AM #8
      Thanks for that. That add on filter is one that goes over the end of the oil pump.
      I was going just get rid of it. I don't plan on any long distance driving with the car.
      I was unaware that the Bug had an oil filter. Maybe this is standard VW equipment. It uses a Fram filter but because of the design of the filter receiver you have to really tighten the filter. If you just put it on hand tight it will blow the gasket every time.
      You mentioned "original VW replacement filters,part # 068-115-561-B" Is this just the element or the complete unit?

      John


    9. 02-02-2008 07:32 AM #9
      This site showes the oil filter that is on this engine.
      http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDeta...D5385

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      02-02-2008 09:10 PM #10
      "I was going just get rid of it."
      Then you would have to replace the whole pump with a completely stock pump like http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDeta...%2DBK and new cover,the full flow pump has different internal plumbing,so just removing the full flow cover and replacing it with a stock cover would leave you with no oil pressure.

      "I was unaware that the Bug had an oil filter. Maybe this is standard VW equipment."
      Nope,VW never ran an external filter of any kind on an aircooled bug,that's a locally sourced aftermarket EMPI product,and it may be contributing to your higher pressure reading.

      "part # 068-115-561-B" Is this just the element or the complete unit?"
      Just the element,but if you're going to replace the pump to a non-filtered style,that makes the element irrelavant.

      Dennis


    11. 02-02-2008 10:56 PM #11
      I seem to have the filter on tight enough now. At least it isn't blowing that seal. I think I'll leave it where it is but get the filter you mentioned. Any idea where they can be had. may the local VW dealer???

      John


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      02-02-2008 11:25 PM #12
      "maybe the local VW dealer???"
      That would be one option,but they're pretty pricey ,~$17.00,at least here in America.
      I was searching down the old original literature for "VW oil filter technology" in order to find a reference to the explanation of the inner valve workings but only found these:
      http://search.msn.com/results....I=365
      http://search.msn.com/results....=QBRE
      The key is to look down the center hole in the filter you're using to see what looks like a sewing thimble supported by a spring deep down inside ,Bosch and Mann would be the original VW suppliers so you can source them cheaper .

      What I was more worried about was the pump itself,as if it may have been incorrectly sized or installed so as to create a pressure pumping restriction.


    13. 02-03-2008 03:04 AM #13
      I see that one of the sites shown on mSN has the filter for $6.59. Now to find how to get one from them.
      I could always order a few of them.
      How do I check "the pump itself,as if it may have been incorrectly sized or installed so as to create a pressure pumping restriction"?

      John


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      02-06-2008 11:48 PM #14
      Sorry for the delay,a persistant flu going around here since Xmas just keeps coming back so I've been laying low the last few evenings .

      "Now to find how to get one from them."
      Just go to that site and order them online.

      "How do I check "the pump itself"
      Since that is a high volume pump it may also have mismatched intake and exhaust drillings compared to the size of the oil journals drilled into your engine case,artificially bumping up the pressure along with the volume.
      To check it you'd have to remove the crank(belt) pulley,then the oil pump cover that holds the element,then the pump body and measure the sizes of the drillings to see if they match up.
      But given the independent lower reading with the external gauge and solving the blowout problem by just cinching the element tighter for now while the engine continues to break in,I'd wait and see .


    15. 02-07-2008 03:00 PM #15
      I'll run it like it is for a while. When it warms up around here the pressude may also drop some.
      My biggest concern is that filter leaking at the gasket.
      Right now the tim is not in place and I can see the filter just by looking but if I put the tin in place I will have to crawl under the car to check it.
      But there has been no sign of a leak since I tightened the last time.

      John


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