Yes, a controller scan will reveal the reason for the problem.
Not sure what is going on. Today the Warning message is gone. The little indicator circle or mark in the top left hand position is off and the Bulb is working just fine. Was getting ready to buy a new bulb or set of bulbs on Monday but now not sure what is really going on. Any suggestions.
Maybe its a controller issue. that would be covered by REAL DRIVER. Will the lighting or bulb issue show up if the car is Vag-Com checked?
I've been getting a light warning indication now for some time (off and on). I can't remember the exact warning. I haven't had a chance to hook up the VAGCOM to see if there is something stored.
I figured maybe a headlight(s) is going and the system can tell that.
Visually, all my lamps look fine.
The xenon lamps themselves (the glass ampules containing the gas and the two terminals) never fail, unless they fail catastrophically - for example, the glass breaks. If that is the case, you won't get intermittent function, they will just stop working for good.
If you are getting intermittent function, there is some possibility that an electrical terminal may be loose at the connection between the bulb assembly and the car wiring harness, at the back of the headlight assembly. You might want to take it apart, scuff up the terminals a bit with very fine sandpaper (1,500 grit), and then put it back together... that might solve the problem.
I had the little bulb (not the high or low beam bulb) in the headlight housing fail on me in an interesting way. When I would turn on the headlights, or they would go on by themselves, a "bulb out" warning icon would go on and a warning would display advising me to check the lights. I could see that this little bulb was out but if I banged gently (oxymoron?) on the headlight housing or if I went over a big enough bump, the bulb would light up and stay on until I turned it off.
I finally got around to removing it and found that the filament was detached from one of the little posts inside the bulb but when it had power and was made to touch the post by vibration, it would evidently stick to the post and stay lit. Maybe it has to do with the electric current inducing magnetism or whatever, but it happened over and over again. I replaced the bulb and it now works all the time. The mechanics at my shop tell me this is not an uncommon occurrence.
BTW, this is a bulb number 194 (if my memory is correct) which in the normal clear version cost about 50 cents. However, the Phaeton uses a bluish version of the same bulb that costs about $5.00 and I could only source through VW! I guess it's a small price to pay for fashion.
I edited this reply since after checking, I found that the small light that's in the housing with the high beam is going out intermittently on the drivers side. I was so concerned that it was something to do with the xenons that I overlooked that little bulb. I had even checked tail lights and other small lights, overlooking those.
Who would have thought?
So, does anyone have a part number for those little lights?
Modified by rscharf at 3:35 AM 6-8-2008
Could you give me instructions on how to remove that little 'parking' bulb?
I tried to follow Michael's instructions for removing the various parts of the air filter and after doing all that I still couldn't get my hand in there well enough to pinch the clips and remove that little bulb. It doesn't help that I have almost 0 experience doing anything with a car other than washing/detailing it. Did you remove the high beam to make it easier to get to the parking bulb?
I even tried to remove the bottom part of the air filter plenum to get more working space and I couldn't get it fully removed, so I snapped it back in.
Unfortunately, if I'm going to be able to do this myself, I'll need relatively detailed instructions on how to remove wiring harnesses/bulbs (if that high beam does need to come out first).
Thanks for any help on this.
Modified by rscharf at 12:47 AM 6-9-2008
Quote, originally posted by rscharf » I edited this reply since after checking, I found that the small light that's in the housing with the high beam is going out intermittently on the drivers side.
So, does anyone have a part number for those little lights?
You experience the exact same intermittent failure of the same bulb on the same side of the car. Hopefully the cause is the same as well as all it required was the replacement of the bulb.
We did not have to take out or move the headlight housing to get to the bulb. I will try to give you more detailed information on the replacement procedure tomorrow, but all that was required was the removal of the air cleaner housing which is pretty easy. As you have found, even after the removal, the access is pretty tight.
As I stated, the after-market (non-VW) part number for the clear version of this bulb (I will confirm tomorrow) is 194. However, the VW version of this is tinted blue. I will see if I can get you the VW part number tomorrow or if you have access to a Phaeton dealer they can identify and provide it to you. My dealer had to order it for me! We both had a laugh over it.
Did you remove the bottom of the air filter housing too?
After I popped the bottom of the housing from it's receptacle (those two posts that snap into receptacles below the housing), I couldn't fully remove the housing between the engine and the side of the engine bay. I tried to rotate it a bit but I still couldn't force it between the engine and side of the bay.
My plan was to put it back together and take it to a garage and have them do it since it seemed too challenging for me!
I FINALLY got the light changed tonight and the trick for me seemed to be using latex gloves. I put on latex gloves to try it again since I tore up my hands enough trying to remove the bulb in the afternoon. I think the latex over my fingers must have gotten stuck on the clips enough so that I had them both engaged and the bulb could come out. I was shocked when the bulb finally started to move.
So I WAS able to remove the bulb with only the top of the air filter housing off. I'll put it all together tomorrow after vacuuming out the remainder of the sand/debris that didn't come out when I was trying to remove the bottom of the filter housing. Tonight I washed the dirty snow screen. That non-existent Houston snow is dirty!
Just for people's information: I got my pair of replacement parking lights at Autozone for less than $4. They are a clear set and when they are on the color of the light looks exactly the same. I personnally don't see the need for getting VW OEM for this bulb replacement.
i looked for a bit but couldnt find where someone had asked for the part number to the small bulb in the housing of the brights. here it is
edit: N-017-753-10 and they go for about $5 at the dealership. btw, the bulb used by vw is toshiba 12v5w w5w (this is whats written on the bulb)
and like rscharf, i had the biggest problem of getting the little bulb out after removing the duct and the filter. is it possible to remove the bottom part of the filter assembly itself to get it out? anyone? i tried but to no avail so i put it all back together to try it sometime in the weekend.
Modified by itsallbeendonebefore at 7:40 PM 2-16-2009
Modified by itsallbeendonebefore at 7:40 PM 2-16-2009
I tried accessing the low beam bulb last night following your instructions. However, I just don't see how I can access it by removing just the air duct. I can access the high beam bulb, but not the low beam. Are you sure it's possible to do so just by removing the duct?
BTW, my OnStar unit, that had failed for about a month, just came back on, so the interior light is now green again. Odd.
EDIT: Nevermind. I found the HID replacement guide. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...53310
Modified by JulianBenjamin at 9:06 PM 2-27-2009
Just a little update for all V6 diesel owners, it's not possible to replace the low beam bulb without removing the entire bumper. My service technician showed me the VW TB for flickering bulbs which, on the V6 diesel calls for the bumper to be removed...
Does this requirement also apply to the V10 TDI? I received my replacement bulbs today and I opened up the hood to see if this would be an easy task or not, but I couldn't figure out a single way to get to the lamp assembly.
The box that's kinda in the way has something to do with air (it says <- AIR FLOW on the side) but it's pretty deep so I don't see how I could get it out.
Does anyone have experience with replacing the bulbs in a V10?
Clicking on the images makes them larger.
Thanks, it's a very common no-nonsense VW color (Anthracite Grey) which suits me fine as it doesn't draw any attention to me, and that's the way I like it. It's just another big grey Passat.
Somehow I don't think removing the airbox is the way to go for me. I had another look at it today after the engine cooled down a bit (although after 12 hours it's still to hot to touch in some areas...) and every time I look there's less and less space to move around. Indeed, there is this big metallic pipe in the way obstructing the removal of the air box, so I don't think this is possible.
There is, however, a single screw securing the headlight assembly to the chassis on the inboard side of the assembly. Crazy thought, but maybe the assembly just pivots out on removal of this screw? Any thoughts (Michael, help )?
I too have a right low beam that is acting up. It seems fine when the car is started. Then within about a minute or so, the color of the light turns pink. Then the light intermittently goes on and off and eventually goes out all together and the car issues all the related messages.
I had a run at taking the airbox off (I wanted to check the snow screens anyway) but there is no way there is room enough to get the back of the light housing off and pull the bulb/ballast out.
The dealer quoted me $931 for the light and did not have an estimate as to the time required to install it. I plan to scan the car with my VAG-COM to see if the controller reports a problem. I do have a RealDriver platinum warranty and my car does not quite yet have 50,000 miles on it.
Modified by 357Sig at 4:20 PM 8-29-2009
Quote, originally posted by 357Sig » I too have a right low beam that is acting up. It seems fine when the car is started. Then within about a minute or so, the color of the light turns pink. Then it eventually goes out all together and the car issues all the related messages.
That sounds a controller issue to me, not bulb. VW should cover that under warranty.
P.S.- Those who are looking for replacement 194 lights, you can alternatively go to an LED shop online (vleds.com for instance) and find bulbs that more closely match your HID's. I did that in my RX-8 and they're beautiful IMO. Just my two cents.
I did a scan on my car, but unfortunately the light had gone out by then. so the VAG-COM showed an open circuit (or something).
I am going set the car to not use DRLs and scan it agin tomorrow morning, hopefully I can catch it when it is acting up and get a different message. It would be really interesting to se what it says when it is pink.
I reread my warranty and I believe if I can successfully assert that it is in fact a controller, then I believe my warranty will cover it.
Was the replacement of the Xenon bulb covered by the Real Driver warranty? I've got a bulb (the right one) that as yet has not gone completely out, but comes on as if perfect then goes to pink about a minute after turned on. And by about 20 minutes of continued use will begin to go off, then back on again for short periods, until finally it goes out at about 30 minutes of continuous use.
I have turned off the Daytime Running Lights as a result, so as not to stress the bulb any more than necessary. I am considering removing the bulb and cleaning the contacts and see if that helps. The color change makes me wonder if the issue is poor contact at the point where the ballast plugs into the car, or simply a bad bulb and just replace it?
Modified by 357Sig at 7:21 AM 9-3-2009
Hi, my DRL lights have been flickering (flashing at high frequency) lately, so I decided to bring the car in for the dealer to check them.
They said the 2 DRL lights bulbs need to be changed, the total cost for the 2 bulbs plus labor is around $850, they said each bulb is $250, and labor is another $350.
Is it too complicated to change those bulbs ?, maybe I can do it myself ?, I found the following P/N for the Bulbs N 105 661 03 ?, is this the right one ?, it's the same bulb for Touareg and Passat:
N10566103 $215.00 $0.00 $159.32
Electrical - Chassis electrical - Bulbs - Headlamp bulb
Headlamp bulb, phaeton, low beam, low beam 2004 - 2006
Do I have other options in the market ?, maybe a Sylvania bulb ?, I know they manufacture for many different brands, Any link to the instructions how to change them ?
Bottom line, I have 2 options:
1.- To disable DRL lights, that way they will last longer
2.- Wait until they will die and at that time I can change them
From the Sylvania Web site I have 2 options:
Low beam headlamp
High beam headlamp
9005XSST Silverstar High Performance Lighting: The Whiter and Brighter Halogen
9005XSCB Cool Blue Halogen - The Whiter Light
Which one is the right one ?, Low Beam ?, thanks
Modified by brosen at 5:49 PM 9-23-2009
The low beam is the one you need. I've changed them in a couple of V8's and found it fairly straightforward: you do however have to remove a few components of the air intake system, i.e. the two intake ducts and the entire filter boxes. This is relatively easy for the driver's side, as there is more room, but a bit harder for the passenger side, as there is much less room and the bottom half of the filter housing is difficult to remove completely. For this reason, I typically do the driver side first which gets me familiar with the exact shape and position of the retaining clip for the HID low beam bulb/ballast assembly. On the passenger side, I pull the bottom half of the filter housing straight up to free it from the rubber grommets that hold it firmly against the fender. Once this is done the housing is free and can be moved around enough to reach the bulb and retaining clip: it's a little tricky because one needs to navigate "blind" but less time consuming than rotating and cajoling the plastic housing clear of the right engine cylinder bank, in my opinion. Feel free to IM me your cell number if you'D like to discuss further.
I am literally in the exact same place as you with regard to my low beam headlights. I am going to try to replace them myself as well. In the meantime, I disabled the Daytime Running Lights feature.
I just bought some replacement D1S HID bulbs from Partsgeek.com for $88 apiece. I purchased brake rotors and pads for my previous Phaeton from this company about 8 months ago. I also bought wheel bearings from them and the kits were incomplete in that they did not contain any of the bolts, just the bearings themselves. I had no trouble with returning the parts, because they were "defective" by virtue of being an incomplete set.
The bulbs I purchased are Sylvania Osram D1S HID, Part No W0133-1647934, for $83.75 + shipping for a total of $172.38. I have not received them as yet.
My only complaint with Partsgeek.com is that they want you to sign up for a "savings club" of some kind.
I used the source code "Save3" to save 3% on my order. The discount was $5.03 which almost paid for the shipping
EDIT: Corrected numerous typos and made 2 clarifications. Original message was typed on a cell phone.
Modified by 357Sig at 12:06 AM 9-24-2009
I did one of these myself with theAmazingDave one long Saturday afternoon. The cost was $84 per bulb. The job however took a bit of sweat. Like Motorista said, do the drivers side first and be very patient on the passenger side. It is very tight. Damn German torture chamber. Also, use gloves handling the bulbs.
Quote, originally posted by brosen » Is it too complicated to change those bulbs? Maybe I can do it myself?
As others have already pointed out, it is not too difficult to change the bulbs yourself, provided that you like doing this kind of work (which I think you do) and provided that you set aside sufficient time to do it (it makes a nice weekend activity).
Concerning the bulb, I think the key issue is that you order the correct "industry specification" of bulb (I believe it is called a D1S, but I am not totally sure of this - check in your Owner Manual, at the back), and that you buy a bulb that is made by a reputable manufacturer (e.g. Sylvania, Osram, or similar).
Note that there was a production problem with some Osram bulbs back in 2005, and VW withdrew these bulbs from dealer stock in Europe. It appears that some unscrupulous individual has obtained the bulbs that were supposed to be destroyed, and has been reselling them on eBay for some time now. So, I recommend that you do not buy headlight bulbs from eBay.
The problem affected only Osram bulbs, and only those produced prior to production week 31 of 2005. There is a picture of an Osram bulb below. The production week is identified by a letter code. The lower case letters a to z are used to identify weeks 1 through 26. The upper case letters A to Z are used to identify weeks 27 through 52.
The bulb in the photo below has a production code that reads q3K4. This is interpreted as follows:
Position 1 (the q) - means it was made in Berlin. Disregard.
Position 2 (the 3) - means it was made in 2003.
Position 3 (the K) - means it was made in the week that corresponds to an upper case K (that would be 26 + 11 = week 37).
Position 4 (the 4) - means it was made on the 4th day of the week. Disregard.
Bottom line is that you don't want to buy Osram bulbs that were made prior to week 31 of 2005.
Thanks to everybody for your answers. I think this will be an easy one, I already removed (a month ago) the whole Air Filter housing (both sides) to clean the "Snow Screens", I know it's a pain but did it already so it should not be that complicated to do it again
Now I have two more questions:
1.- I am entering winter in MN, meaning I have to do this before or after, it's not reasonable to plan this activity with -30C inside the Garage (mine is not heated ).
Now I have a very mild flickering, any idea how long they will last ?, maybe if I disable DRL and use them only for the night they might last longer, until spring and change them at that time ?, if not I will have to change them in the next 60 days, feedback ?
2.- I am going to by the Sylvania/Osram bulbs, where is the most reliable place to buy them ?, I've used eBay a lot before but I am afraid of those Chinese replicas, and the cost/effort of replacing the bulbs is so big; that I have to be sure I am buying the original ones that will last for a long time and not only for 90 days
Again, thank you guys for the great feedback and information,
Modified by brosen at 1:16 PM 9-24-2009
In my case, I've had only one bulb flicker for well over a year during which I did extensive night driving (so disabling DRL would not have helped). I even swapped it from one side to the other to make sure it was the bulb and not something else. Here's what I observed:
- Flickering started at the very end of a 400 mile night drive in very hot summer weather: it started about ten miles from destination and was more noticeable during hard acceleration. By the time I parked the car the light was out, period, but the following morning everyhting was fine.
- This pattern continued for about twelve months without noticeable increase: the bulb would be fine for several hundred miles, then start flickering, especially under hard acceleration.
- Then things started getting worse fast: the bulb would flicker almsot from the moment I started the car, and the frequency increased too: after the first ten minutes or so of operation, the bulb would go off and stay off. At about this time the other bulb started flickering once or twice only, so I decided to replace them both.
I don't know if you have a V8 or W12 engine car - the airboxes may be different between the vehicles.
Generally speaking, if you remove the top from the airbox (fairly easy to do), and look around the perimeter of the lower portion of the airbox, you should find the fasteners that hold it to the car. I doubt very much that VW assembled the thing in such a way that the lower portion of the box cannot be removed from above.
I regret I don't have any service documentation (illustrations) handy that explain how to remove that component.
Quote, originally posted by zenmoused » How to Replace HID Headlamps
My headlights were flickering pretty badly, and so I went to the dealer. They quoted me $740 to replace the two headlights, including 2 D1S HID bulbs (at $240 each) and a few hours of work to remove the front bumper. After coming across Michael's helpful post in which he stated that you do not have to remove the bumper, I decided to tackle this project myself.
Before we start, let it be known that these instructions are for a V8 engine. I'm sure it's similar across different engines, but not exactly the same.
Step 1: Buy headlights. I decided to not try my chances with off-brands, and found a good price on the stock Osram D1S bulbs on eBay. Here's the link to what I found: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...0wt_0
Step 2: Collect your tools. You will need a long Philips screwdriver, a set of pliers, a hex-key set, and a star-bit set. I don't know the exact size of the bits you'll need, but they're fairly standard.
Under the Hood
Step 3: Locate your airboxes and remove the covers. First undo the two buttons that hold the heat shield on the airbox, just like a fireman's jacket. Each airbox has 4 Philips head screws holding it together.Once these are loosened all the way (they don't come out) you will see the air filters. Remove them and set them aside.
Step 4: Remove the snow screens. In your airbox will be a trapezoidal screen held in place by one Philips screw. Remove the screw and slide the screen out. While you have these out you should run them under some water to clean them. If they're particularly dirty, this will yield noticeable performance gains.
Step 5: Remove the air ducts from the front of the engine bay. These are each held in place with three star screws. They're really easy to remove.
Step 6: Move the airbox lids out of your way. First look for the compression ring that attaches each air hose to the plenum. Use your pliers to move these rings and remove the air hose from the plenum. This will allow you to move the lid of the airbox aside. (Note- be very careful not to get anything into the plenum while it's open).
Step 7: Move the airboxes out of the way. Now that the tops of the airboxes are moved, you can move the airboxes themselves so you can get to the headlights. The airboxes are held in place by a hex screw, which is located at the top of the airbox and connects to the fender. Remove these. The airbox will still be held down. This is because it has two plastic pegs that fit into rubber grommets below them. With two hands, pull directly up with some force, and the airbox should come free. At this point you can either move them aside within the engine bay, or take them out. I did this both ways- both were just about as easy.
Step 8: Remove the headlight. There will be two stiff metal wires holding the plastic cover to the back of the headlight housing. These pivot, so move them aside, and the plastic cover should come loose. Take the cover completely out and you will see the back of the headlight. Its connector is facing downwards- pull it off straight down. then you can remove the bulb by pulling straight back.
Step 9: Install your headlight. Don't touch the glass on your bulb. This is like a game of Operation, only way more rewarding when you win. Maneuver that baby into the socket and you should feel it click into place- make sure that the connector is facing downward. Connect the plug and put everything back together in reverse order.
Step 10: Get a beer. Yuengling if you have any. Congrats- you're done!
These are the instructions for V8 cars.
Like many things on the Phaeton, the engineering is sound, and once you see how the parts go together everything becomes obvious.
It seems like most everyone who has successfully changed these bulbs themselves has worked around the lower portion of the box once it is free of its mounts, but still trapped between the engine and the inner fender. Getting it free of its entrapment requires the same skill set as solving a Rubik's Cube, and that's one I don't have.
Modified by 357Sig at 10:32 PM 9-25-2009
My experience is similar to Bernard's. The nearside (passenger side, LHD vehicle) bulb started to flicker first about 8 or 9 months ago, I noticed it when parking in my garage but it was only a very slight flicker against the wall in front of the car. Since then, that bulb has steadily got worse and the driver's side has also started with minor flickering. Now the passenger side will occasionally go out altogether, accompanied by the dashboard warning.
I had the dealer take a look 6 weeks ago during the 60k service and got the "answer" that they weren't sure what was causing it, and it would be prohibitively expensive to find out or to change the bulbs. After finding this thread I'll be doing the job myself as soon as I obtain the bulbs!