EV transmission thoughts?

[wilsonm73]

I am sure there's a thread in here somewhere that has info on 01-03 EV transmissions. I just had my mechanic change the fluid in our van keeping with fresh fluid every 20k. Now when its cold in the morning it drops from first gear to neutral sometimes or when on a hill. I am concerned he put the wrong fluid in it. I am taking it back tomorrow to ask him about it. There are no fault codes in the ECU, but it seems to clunk when down shifting from 3rd to first or second when slowing and restarting. Its always done that but not as much.

I searched bit and wondered if you guys had any threads to point me to or helpful thoughts about fluid and transmissions. It would seem like with as bad as EV transmissions have been there would be plenty of posts but I can't seem to find them.

Our fluid has been changed 3 times now and we have 87k miles on it at this point. No bad noises or anything, just not working when its cold.

[J_Westy]

Quote, originally posted by wilsonm73 »

Now when its cold in the morning it drops from first gear to neutral sometimes or when on a hill. I am concerned he put the wrong fluid in it. I am taking it back tomorrow to ask him about it. There are no fault codes in the ECU, but it seems to clunk when down shifting from 3rd to first or second when slowing and restarting. Its always done that but not as much.

Your fluid level might be low...

At cold temps the fluid level would be lower because it's more dense.

On a hill, the pump pick-up might become unsubmerged.

You also might want to crank up your transmission line pressure by turning the adjustment in the valve body. I'd post the link but I can't find it with the crappy search engine here.

[gti_matt]

Quote, originally posted by J_Westy »

You also might want to crank up your transmission line pressure by turning the adjustment in the valve body. I'd post the link but I can't find it with the crappy search engine here.

Has to be done w/the pan dropped (and fluid drained else you're going to have a mess on your hands) so do it before you add more fluid.

Also did the tech change your filter as well?

[alm]

My EV has always had a difficult time moving on cold starts, sometimes, it simply refuses to move if its too cold, and I really have baby it to convince it to get going.
Its been like that since it was new. Therefore I always have to let it wam up for 10 mins. in the sub zero temps.

[wilsonm73]

Quote, originally posted by J_Westy »

Your fluid level might be low... At cold temps the fluid level would be lower because it's more dense. On a hill, the pump pick-up might become unsubmerged. You also might want to crank up your transmission line pressure by turning the adjustment in the valve body. I'd post the link but I can't find it with the crappy search engine here.

I took it back to the dealer today and they thought that there wasn't enough fluid in the tranny. They changed the filter and fluid. Evidently they have a hard time servicing them since they didn't put a dipstick on the tranny. The mechanic said it used to be easier and he thought it was stupid not to have one. We'll see tomorrow morning. Thanks for the input.

[gti_matt]

Quote, originally posted by alm »

My EV has always had a difficult time moving on cold starts, sometimes, it simply refuses to move if its too cold, and I really have baby it to convince it to get going. Its been like that since it was new. Therefore I always have to let it wam up for 10 mins. in the sub zero temps.

These vans are very lazy shifters (at least w/o the pressure adjustment done). I find with mine that it takes way longer than with other cars at idle speed to creep along and get going. My sister-in-law's 4-banger Mazda practically leaps ahead when in gear even at idle compared to the lazy Eurovan. It's worse when cold too. I think it's just the default behavior with such a slushy-soft transmission.

[wilsonm73]

Quote, originally posted by gti_matt »

These vans are very lazy shifters (at least w/o the pressure adjustment done). I find with mine that it takes way longer than with other cars at idle speed to creep along and get going. My sister-in-law's 4-banger Mazda practically leaps ahead when in gear even at idle compared to the lazy Eurovan. It's worse when cold too. I think it's just the default behavior with such a slushy-soft transmission.

How do you make the pressure adjustment? Also how do you know if its already adjusted correctly?

[wilsonm73]

Quote, originally posted by wilsonm73 »

I took it back to the dealer today and they thought that there wasn't enough fluid in the tranny. They changed the filter and fluid. Evidently they have a hard time servicing them since they didn't put a dipstick on the tranny. The mechanic said it used to be easier and he thought it was stupid not to have one. We'll see tomorrow morning. Thanks for the input.

Problem fixed, just needed .75 liters of fluid

[J_Westy]

Quote, originally posted by wilsonm73 »

How do you make the pressure adjustment? Also how do you know if its already adjusted correctly?

...finally found it with the search

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3158013

You can turn it in all the way. The transmission will adapt to the higher pressure for regular shifting, but will make shifts from P/N quicker.

[chendermi]

Quote, originally posted by wilsonm73 »

Problem fixed, just needed .75 liters of fluid

I wonder if the previous fill was done at the correct temperature AND with the engine running. If the engine is off, you'd underfill by about that amount of fluid due to the fluid collecting in the pan instead of being pumped around in the trans and torque converter.

[wilsonm73]

Quote, originally posted by chendermi »

I wonder if the previous fill was done at the correct temperature AND with the engine running. If the engine is off, you'd underfill by about that amount of fluid due to the fluid collecting in the pan instead of being pumped around in the trans and torque converter.

I bet your right.

[wilsonm73]

Quote, originally posted by J_Westy »

...finally found it with the search http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3158013 You can turn it in all the way. The transmission will adapt to the higher pressure for regular shifting, but will make shifts from P/N quicker.

In the picture in which part of the transmission is the adjuster on? I have to do front and rear brakes on ours. While I have it on the lift I will adjust the pressure. I have been pretty amazed at the brakes. I got 87k miles out of the front rotors. I am on my second set of pads, the first ones ran 50k miles. The rear rotors are still think enough to put pads on and aren't warped.

I will post after I make the adjustment. Thanks for the help.

[J_Westy]

Quote, originally posted by wilsonm73 »

In the picture in which part of the transmission is the adjuster on? I will post after I make the adjustment. Thanks for the help.

It's on the valvebody inside the pan. The plastic adjuster screw faces the engine.

You may want to wait until you next fluid change, or just buck up and change the fluid again since a lot of the old fluid stayed in the trans up in the torque converter, etc.

[wilsonm73]

Quote, originally posted by wilsonm73 »

I bet your right.

Now the tranny is leaking fluid. I am going to have to drain the fluid again and figured out where the leak is. Not to happy?

[jets]

Just take it back to the garage & let them do it. They may have used the old pan gasket.
If you decide to do it yourself you will need to clean it all up & check where the leak is BEFORE you pull the pan. This job may take a while but is not too hard.

[gti_matt]

Quote, originally posted by wilsonm73 »

In the picture in which part of the transmission is the adjuster on?

On the left side of the trans in the pic (although I believe this pic is from the front of the car so it's the passenger side of the trans) see the hole that looks like it is not round but round with "teeth" sort of like a star? I believe that's the adjuster (someone correct me if I'm wrong). You can only tighten; you cannot loosen or you'll break the teeth that prevent it from backing out. Tighten that. People have tightened it all the way with no adverse effects.


Modified by gti_matt at 9:34 PM 2-27-2008

[J_Westy]

Quote, originally posted by gti_matt »

On the left side of the trans in the pic (although I believe this pic is from the front of the car so it's the passenger side of the trans) see the hole that looks like it is not round but round with "teeth" sort of like a star? I believe that's the adjuster (someone correct me if I'm wrong). You can only tighten; you cannot loosen or you'll break the teeth that prevent it from backing out. Tighten that. People have tightened it all the way

Yes that's the one!

[VW_Enthu1]

I'll give credit where credit is due: you guys have more guts than I. I'll tear into just about anything....EXCEPT an 01-03 EV transmission. They are so damn touchy, I'd be afraid to mess with anything...knowing that if I screwed up, I'd be stroking a $5400.00 check within a week.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I love the van like a member of the family, but these transmissions are the biggest pieces of **** I've ever seen .... and I mean that literally...in my years at a dealership and being involved in service, I can't think of any mainstream vehicle dating to the mid-80's with a lousier trans situation (Yugos, oddball Landrovers, etc. don't count). Good luck with the adjustments.

Maybe light some incense and play some mood music in the garage while you do the work...you have to be one with the VW....can't hurt....


Modified by VW_Enthu1 at 6:56 AM 2-28-2008

[ExklusivVR6]

Quote, originally posted by wilsonm73 »

I took it back to the dealer today and they thought that there wasn't enough fluid in the tranny. They changed the filter and fluid. Evidently they have a hard time servicing them since they didn't put a dipstick on the tranny. The mechanic said it used to be easier and he thought it was stupid not to have one. We'll see tomorrow morning. Thanks for the input.

I would drop this "mechanic" pronto and get yourself a technician. Servicing your transmission requires monitoring the ATF temp via VAGcom while filling with a specific procedure.

[VW_Enthu1]

I agree with ExklusivVR6 - I would lose the mechanic. This further reinforces my point though. What design idiot thought it would be a good idea to have to monitor the temp while filling the trans? ...with a trans that has no dipstick? I will remember these stupid ******* transmissions until the day I die....

[ExklusivVR6]

Quote, originally posted by VW_Enthu1 »

This further reinforces my point though. What design idiot thought it would be a good idea to have to monitor the temp while filling the trans? ...with a trans that has no dipstick? I will remember these stupid ******* transmissions until the day I die....

The same idiot that was trying to keep someone unqualified from servicing a precision part. I do 2-3 tranny services a week at my shop - with the right tools and knowledge it's not really that difficult. I think making the service a PITA prevents people from using the wrong fluid, over/under filling ect ect ect

[AZ_NaTiV]

The DIY that I found for the EV says you fill it up with 3 quarts of ATF fluid (Pentosin) - start the car and then let it run for 10-15 minutes. then put in the 4th quart. Sounds like the mechanic filled it and didn't start it.

My tranny runs much smoother now - especially on cold mornings.

[SilverWagon]

wilsonm73,
I had my transmission serviced at ABT in Kempten... one of the best VW/Audi tuners in Germany, as you might already know. I could refer you to them if you want.... I am in Belgium (SHAPE) with my 2001 US EVC, but often travel to Germany. Please drop me a note so we can perhaps connect...??? -Pawel

[logansvw2]

My 02 trans with only 53k went out on me last week and now has no forward or reverse. It had all the symptoms mentioned here. slow starting, hard shifting.... What a POS. Now what? dealer? local tranny shop? The locals here in Chicago say sure we can fix it but I doubt they have ever seen one of these beasts. Anyone have a good non dealer experince with this?

[ExklusivVR6]

Quote, originally posted by logansvw2 »

My 02 trans with only 53k went out on me last week and now has no forward or reverse. It had all the symptoms mentioned here. slow starting, hard shifting.... What a POS. Now what? dealer? local tranny shop? The locals here in Chicago say sure we can fix it but I doubt they have ever seen one of these beasts. Anyone have a good non dealer experince with this?

Your best bet is to use http://www.car-part.com and find a good used one and have a solid independent VW shop in your area swap it and perform a tranny service

[VW_Enthu1]

Tough call because there aren't too many used transmissions out there. The problem is that the used trans (after shipping and install) may be two thirds or more the cost of a new one, plus you have no warranty.

I would go to the dealer given that you are 53K and see what they can do. Raise a huge stink about it (professionally) and see if VWofA will eat at least half the cost. I can live with $2700 for a trans - $5400 is a ****ing joke and in no way justifiable. I would bet you can get some $ with miles that low. Some guy on vacation in FL just got around $3K to cover his and I believe he was at the 60K range. VWofA is very aware that these transmissions are s***. Given their new sales goals, I think they will be receptive to keeping clients happy.

If VW wants to play in the US market, they are going to have to pay (read: customer service). One (increased sales) does not happen without the other (better service). Time to suck it up VW.


Modified by VW_Enthu1 at 11:22 AM 3-18-2008

[gti_matt]

Quote, originally posted by logansvw2 »

The locals here in Chicago say sure we can fix it but I doubt they have ever seen one of these beasts. Anyone have a good non dealer experince with this?

The 01P Eurovan transmission is a variation/evolution of the 01M transmission from other VWs. It should not be that strange in and of itself.

[GVW62]

If I ever have to break down for a replacement I'll probably go with the GoWesty rebuilt.

Better price than dealer, better warranty than dealer (albeit through GoWesty) and uses Dexron ATF.

http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view...nt_id=

About a year ago the dealer told me my EV needed a replacement AT. A local trans shop replaced a seal for ~$800 and it was good to go.


Modified by GVW62 at 1:51 AM 3-19-2008

[mdaniels]

You can add me to the list of those about to have a new transmission. We bought this van in May of last year and everything was fine up until we went up into the mountains last October. On the way home we got a CEL and ultimately it was revealed to be a Torque Converter mechanical malfunction code that made it come on. This was at around 78k miles.

The previous owner had real good records for the life of the vehicle, but I never saw one for the transmission being serviced, so it probably had the original fluid. I just killed it going in the mountains. Of course, I don't learn about the service intervals until after we started having problems. However, I would have waited until 80K anyway...

I changed the fluid/filter, increased the tranny pressure, and it did shift better. But we kept having problems with reverse. Sometimes it wouldn't not engage and when it did, it would sometimes "slip". Not a good feeling , but we never got stuck anywhere.

We were planning on trading it in, but I think we've waited too long. Today my wife called and said she wasn't able to back out of the Sonic Drive-in spot. She ultimatly had to have some employees push our back out.

However, this week I've had my mechanic start pricing out replacing the transmission, because even though we were thinking of trading it in, I was still contemplating fixing it.

I'm pretty sure I'll go with a rebuilt unit from German Transaxle. My mechanic has talked with Go Westy and has confirmed that they get their rebuilt units from German Transaxle, so I might as well go to the source.

The transmission w/ shipping should be around $3700-$3800. Labor is going to be another $900. I'm planning on doing the timing chain at the same time, since I don't think it costs too much more to do it now. Hopefully I'll be out under $5500.

I'll be honest, it makes my wife and I sick that we have to do this less than a year into owning it. I sometimes wonder if its the reason the other owner sold it, but again, we never had any trouble until we went on that one trip.

Even after we repair it, I'll be worried about taking it in the mountains from now on, which will suck.

[gti_matt]

Any chance it's a dirty valve body or anything like that (since the only thing that went out is reverse) and u don't need a whole new trans?

[jets]

I agree with you Matt.What we really need is someone on these forums that understands & or repairs these things. I believe there would be a lot of trans changed at great expense because the service people can't troubleshoot properly. I was told some time ago by a T4 dismantler that most problems on these trans were from the valve body. Matt you found a site some time ago that did changeover valve bodies, do you still have a link?

[gti_matt]

Hmmm was that me? I can't say I remember (and don't have a URL bookmarked) but could any of these be it?

http://www.valvebodyxpress.com/catalog/VW/01m.asp

http://www.autotransonline.ro/...p.pdf

http://www.transparts.ru/pdf/vw4_04_w.pdf

http://www.drivetrain.com/volk...9801P

http://www.transtarindustries....D=332

[GVW62]

I agree. Reverse has gone out twice on my EV. Once at 30k miles the dealer replaced the valve body and VW covered it even though past warranty.

The second time was the $800 seal replacement at 130k miles after the dealer wanted to replace the entire trans.

[jets]

I think this was the site but it has since changed & I can no longer find the page on the recon. valve bodies.

http://www.transmissionspecial...x.php

[mdaniels]

Quote, originally posted by gti_matt »

Any chance it's a dirty valve body or anything like that (since the only thing that went out is reverse) and u don't need a whole new trans?

I guess I have no way of knowing until it goes into the shop. If that is it, and it was significantly cheaper, I'd be happy. But with the bits I found in it when I did the trans service (see photos at http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3527661), I do wonder if it's not a bigger problem.

If we can get it out the garage today, we may still see about trading it in, even if we take a hit. We don't have much interest in keeping this van.

If anyone wants to buy a custom painted Vapor Blue van, with some nice extras that come with it, I'm willing to sell it for less than I owe so I don't have to deal with it!

Modified by mdaniels at 11:52 AM 3-22-2008