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    Thread: WTB: Window control module

    1. 02-10-2008 07:44 PM #1
      hey guys im in the market for a window control module...didnt bother to go through the stealership price was ridiculous. anyone have a module willing to sell? or anyone know of a website that sells good quality affordable modules? i read that the same year scirroco or passat moduls work too? not sure about that...any help is GREATLY appreciated...trying to get the part ASAP! thank you in advance!
      -john

    2. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      02-10-2008 09:05 PM #2
      Before changing the module, repair the problem.
      Clean the rain drains, and reseal the air box.

    3. 02-10-2008 09:31 PM #3
      They show up on eBay a lot. That's where I got mine. Make sure you also search for early passat and corrado modules. They are all the same part, and in the passat and corrado modules most likely never got wet.

    4. 02-11-2008 10:17 AM #4
      well the thing was the window was left open so im almost 100% sure thats why it got went and broke because it worked fine before and i cleaned out the drains when i got it cuz they were dirty. a buddy of mine works at a shop around here and narrowed the problem directly to the control module and i figured that dealership was gonna be expensive so i didnt wanna go through them. it was like 180 bucks. the the modules out of passat's and corrado's have to be the same year vehicle as the cabriolet i have right? mines a 90 so what years could i get them out of corrados and passats?

    5. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      02-11-2008 04:37 PM #5
      Just because you left the window open? The control module is under the dash.... That don't sound right.
      Does the driver side work, and the Passenger side don't? It uses about all the same Circuitry for both sides.
      Have you tried to change the switches?

      No, the control module on the Passant and the Corrado is the exact same....

    6. 02-12-2008 08:17 PM #6
      neither windows would go down or up...and the passenger side which was left down was stuck down about 5". checked the switches and both were good...you could hear a clicking noise coming from the module when you pushed the switches.

    7. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      02-12-2008 08:57 PM #7
      Did you check fuse #17?
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    8. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      02-12-2008 09:25 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 »
      Did you check fuse #17?


      ^^^
      S17 is (should be) at the very top left of the fuse relay panel, in the upper 'extras' section.






      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    9. 02-13-2008 12:55 PM #9
      no i didnt check that but i will tonight....wheres the fuse panel located at in this car anyways? the cars my g/f's car and i dont remember being i dont own the car lol

    10. Member briano1234's Avatar
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      02-13-2008 01:15 PM #10
      fuse panel is under the kneebar drivers side, use a flash light and a pair of needle nose pliers.
      For fuse locations
      http://cabby-info.com/electrical_system.htm

    11. 02-13-2008 06:31 PM #11
      ahhh yah i remember where its at...thanks for the help hopefully tonight i can take a look at it. ill post up my findings if any.

    12. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      02-13-2008 06:37 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by tolusina »
      ^^^
      S17 is (should be) at the very top left of the fuse relay panel, in the upper 'extras' section.

      There are two fuses (right?): #17 for the switches, and the regulator fuse in relay position #17.
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    13. 02-13-2008 06:46 PM #13
      yeah the 30 amp is the a/c thermo-fuse and the 20 amp is the power window regulator fuse

    14. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      02-13-2008 06:54 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 »
      There are two fuses (right?): #17 for the switches, and the regulator fuse in relay position #17.


      Schematic shows only one fuse, and oops, it's S37, not S17 in relay location 19, topmost left.




      Switches shouldn't need to be fused, they carry only very low current logic signals.

      An archived power window thread is here.






      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    15. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      02-13-2008 07:08 PM #15
      So, the Bentley listing power window switch fuse in fuse #17 is incorrect? Owner's manual list what fuse #17 is?
      Cabby-Info.com -- Your online guide to VW Cabriolets/Rabbit Convertibles
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    16. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      02-13-2008 07:16 PM #16
      My Bentley shows S17 is for the 16V 'rocco Knock sensor control unit.

      It shows 2 fuses in relay location 17, the A/C thermofuse and the power top circuit breaker.
      See pp 13-28 & 29, also the schematic.

      You're gonna make me go look at my car, huh?
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    17. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      02-13-2008 07:30 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by tolusina »
      My Bentley shows S17 is for the 16V 'rocco Knock sensor control unit.

      It shows 2 fuses in relay location 17, the A/C thermofuse and the power top circuit breaker.
      See pp 13-28 & 29, also the schematic.

      You're gonna make me go look at my car, huh?

      But, on a real life power top relay panel, the fuse is above the panel and is covered. Therefore, fuse #17 is open and the power window fuse is in relay spot #17, yes? (Sorry, OP, just want to get this sorted out! )
      Cabby-Info.com -- Your online guide to VW Cabriolets/Rabbit Convertibles
      Old Blue's Blog -- The adventures of a 1990 Westfalia
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    18. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      02-13-2008 10:18 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 »
      ......But, on a real life power top relay panel,..


      On my '92, manual top car, I found the window controller fuse in relay location 17 where Bentley locates the power top circuit breaker (which my car doesn't have), , not in relay location 19 where Bentley says it should be.
      Fuse 17 (S17) on the main fuse panel is present on my car, when removed, the windows work just fine. Whatever S17 does, it doesn't do windows.
      I did discover unusual behaviour. When S37 was removed, the driver's window switche operated, then S37 re-installed, the window then operated without an additional switch activation.
      The ECU was powered up and processed the logic signal from the switch, once the fuse was re-installed, the ECU then was able to complete it's logical function. This function is likely time limited.
      Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 »
      ... (Sorry, OP, just want to get this sorted out! )

      Sort of sorted, I sorta hope......
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    19. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      02-13-2008 10:26 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by jhelmuth87 »
      ....you could hear a clicking noise coming from the module when you pushed the switches.

      Good news, bad news, and the bad isn't that bad at all, mostly all good.

      The relays won't click without S37, the main (and only) fuse. That's it for the bad news.
      Since the relays do click, S37 is fine.
      Since the relays do click, the switches are fine.
      Since the relays do click, all ECU circuitry to activate them is fine as are the relay coils.
      Since the relays do click (and everything else just listed), the ECU is probably very easily repaired. Remove it, open it, drain water if necessary, find and clean the relay contacts. Look over the circuit traces for the main power circuits to and from the relay contacts, solder and obvious breaks. Opening and fixing should take less time than driving to pick up a replacement.

      <edit> forgot to post the pic</edit>


      ECU is on the bottom of the rain tray, far right side of the dash, up above the kneebar.







      Modified by tolusina at 7:28 PM 2-13-2008
      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    20. 02-14-2008 12:28 AM #20
      wow thanks a lot guys for the help i really appreciate everything...im gonna look at this thing friday prob some time and hopefully take it out. the thing was before i took the car to my local shop the clicking noise would come on when i hit the switches and the noise came from the module. after i got the car back a day later when i pushed the window switches the clicking noise stopped....i have no idea what they could have done? i should prob call and ask i guess? because i checked both plugs on the module and both are fully connected...

    21. 02-14-2008 12:46 AM #21
      im trying to think maybe they removed the s37 fuse? maybe thats why its not clicking anymore? where is the s37 fuse even located at under the dash?

    22. Member dandydanny's Avatar
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      02-14-2008 01:08 AM #22
      Quote, originally posted by jhelmuth87 &raquo;
      you could hear a clicking noise coming from the module when you pushed the switches.

      I had the same problem on my driver's side window. Turns out the wire that feeds the window motor broke in the conduit between the door and the car body. Activity from the power window control unit is definitely a good sign.
      I remember seeing someone posted a replacement circuit using relays a while back. You'd lose the auto-down feature, but I think the price is right. (EDIT: It was one of Ron's posts, in that old power window thread)
      I took the power window control unit apart to see what's inside. I remember seeing an Intel microcontroller and 4 separate SPDT relays, and I thought to myself "those crazy German engineers..." The way the motors are wired up meant the setup only allowed one window to be operated at a time (don't know why, can any one fill me in on this?). I traced out what those 4 relays do on this piece of paper:

      Maybe someday I'll get up off my lazy butt, learn how to program a microcontroller, and design a replacement module that allows independent operation, perhaps even an auto-up feature with stall detection.


      Modified by dandydanny at 12:10 AM 2-14-2008

    23. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      02-14-2008 02:01 AM #23
      Quote, originally posted by dandydanny &raquo;
      ......
      I took the power window control unit apart to see what's inside. I remember seeing an Intel microcontroller and 4 separate SPDT relays, and I thought to myself "those crazy German engineers..." The way the motors are wired up meant the setup only allowed one window to be operated at a time (don't know why, can any one fill me in on this?). I traced out what those 4 relays do on this piece of paper:...
      .....and design a replacement module that allows independent operation, perhaps even a auto-up feature with stall detection. .....


      Nice schematic/sketch! (no sarcasm implied or intended) [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Seems I concluded the internal operation had to be quite like you've sketched, the common brown/red motor wire being the major clue. Nice that you opened one and laid it bare.

      on the one at a time operation. The only reason ('excuse') I can think of was that they wanted to keep maximum current draw at any one time to a minimum.
      Audi 5000s/100s/200s of the mid '80s through early '90s used a latching relay for driver's window auto down, you might want to look inside one of those. How about a simple 555 timer circuit to hold each relay latched briefly for full auto up and down, add a thermal breaker in the power lead for pinch protection. Or, never mind the 555, just latch with a relay, 'break' the latch with a thermal breaker? A little modification to that very basic relay schematic I drew back when and you're done.

      Couple of links for you.........
      http://ourworld.compuserve.com...#menu
      http://ourworld.compuserve.com...5.htm





      Quote Originally Posted by kamzcab86
      I hate reading: "But I bought this car for $500 and don't want to put another dime into it."
      ____(hey, it's VW AND it's electrical, what's not to fail?) neoBentley+



    24. Member tolusina's Avatar
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      02-14-2008 02:05 AM #24

    25. Member dandydanny's Avatar
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      02-14-2008 03:08 AM #25
      Quote, originally posted by tolusina &raquo;
      How about a simple 555 timer circuit to hold each relay latched briefly for full auto up and down

      You know Ron, in the process of (attempting to) reverse engineer the original box, I've completely overlooked the possibility of using a 555 / 556. Very good idea you have there [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      I'm thinking the crazy German engineers could have devised a way to use the cheap and plentiful 555s for auto-down time delay, or even used some sort of simple RC timer circuit to detect extended button press, to reduce component costs. However, since I have just recently discovered that the intermittent wiper time delay in my cabby is actually programmable, I am thinking the engineers may have intended the window controller to do other fancy things
      Our family's '88 Camry has the driver window auto-down feature, and from what I can tell, it is purely mechanical: the switch latches, and released when a motor stall condition heats up thermal breaker beyond a set threshold (usually in about a second after the window closes).
      As for pinch protection, the old Toyota method above would not be sufficient; the window glass needs to immediately go down to release whatever that's trapped. I suppose the microcontroller would come in handy for this task, but again, there must be a ingenious solution using only discrete components, and again I'm too busy / lazy to figure this out.
      Quote, originally posted by tolusina &raquo;

      I'm too lazy and spoiled now. I need to have power windows
      (Apologies to the original poster for unrelated tech talk)

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