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    Thread: Best 12v Vr6 performance route?

    1. Member brandonb85's Avatar
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      03-05-2008 11:06 PM #1
      Hey Vortex'rs I'm sure this is posted somewhere (link if so), but i've searched and cant find the best bang for the buck when upgrading the 12v vr6. Let me know some results and cost in upgrading.

      So far ive only purchased a cat-back,CAI, and 13lb flywheel. Looking for a chip next (GIAC) . Thanks in advance


      (forced induction has to wait another year )


    2. Member Swizz!!'s Avatar
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      03-05-2008 11:07 PM #2
      Quote, originally posted by brandonb85 »

      (forced induction has to wait another year )
      Looks like you're waiting for a year then.
      U mirin?

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      03-05-2008 11:08 PM #3
      if your going FI next year i would wait till then, spend money on suspension

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      03-05-2008 11:10 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by GLSForTheWin »
      if your going FI next year i would wait till then, spend money on suspension

      X2


    5. 03-05-2008 11:10 PM #5
      Turbo or supercharger if you can swing the dough.

    6. Member brandonb85's Avatar
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      03-05-2008 11:13 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by PIKE VRT »
      Turbo or supercharger if you can swing the dough.

      Trying to convince the bank i need 3k for daily driving repairs

      They haven't went for it yet


    7. Member brandonb85's Avatar
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      03-05-2008 11:17 PM #7
      Pulley kit?
      GIAC chip?

    8. 03-05-2008 11:23 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by brandonb85 »

      (forced induction has to wait another year )


      I knew I wanted to go turbo with mine so I resisted the normal bolt-ons (CAI, exhaust, chip, etc.) for more than 2 years! I finally got the cash (about $7000 when all said and done) and mine went from bone stock to force fed. It was like losing my virginity all over again

    9. 03-05-2008 11:26 PM #9
      Quote, originally posted by brandonb85 »

      Trying to convince the bank i need 3k for daily driving repairs

      They haven't went for it yet

      Just for reference, taking out a loan, to mod your car, is pretty much the worst thing you could possibly do. Might as well go get yourself a nice case of HIV...


    10. Member brandonb85's Avatar
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      03-05-2008 11:30 PM #10
      Quote, originally posted by ClubDownforce »

      Just for reference, taking out a loan, to mod your car, is pretty much the worst thing you could possibly do. Might as well go get yourself a nice case of HIV...


      Not really that bad when you dont owe that much.. especially if you arent wanting to sell it anytime soon.


    11. Member Filthydubber's Avatar
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      03-05-2008 11:33 PM #11
      Just t-charge that SOB and call it a day.

    12. 03-05-2008 11:33 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by brandonb85 »


      Not really that bad when you dont owe that much.. especially if you arent wanting to sell it anytime soon.

      Right.


    13. Member brandonb85's Avatar
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      03-05-2008 11:35 PM #13
      Come on guys cant go forced induction yet.. Any testimonies on a chip for the Vr? best bang for the buck. (minus boost)

    14. 03-05-2008 11:36 PM #14
      Yeah dude take it from me...don't put any mods on a credit card. Worst mistake of my LIFE!

    15. 03-05-2008 11:38 PM #15
      Just save your dough and wait. The ECU will need to be re-flashed/programmed when you go forced induction anyway.

    16. Senior Member SHAG WAGON's Avatar
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      03-05-2008 11:39 PM #16
      Look into the Unitronic software.


      And yes I have been through Ubsolute and GIAC


      I have a CAI, full custom exhaust, and Unitronic software.

      Hopefully very soon to be boosting 10psi to 15psi on a turbo setup


      Modified by SHAG WAGON at 11:45 PM 3-5-2008

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    17. 03-05-2008 11:42 PM #17
      i have unitronic chip, intake exhaust, lightweight flywheel, cams coming soon.
      That is pretty much it without f-ing up reliability, pullies blow

    18. Member brandonb85's Avatar
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      03-05-2008 11:45 PM #18
      What kind of differences did you notice with the chip? anything very noticeable?

    19. 03-06-2008 12:11 AM #19
      GIAC chip here, dont even notice the difference anymore.... Saving for VF supercharger...

    20. 03-06-2008 09:03 AM #20
      the chip difference you notice is in smoothness, the powerband is alot less rocky, but because i don't have cams the powerband sort of dies around 4500 rpm. I've driven a car with autotech 262 cams and it makes a world of difference. Hope this helps

    21. Member brandonb85's Avatar
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      03-06-2008 09:18 AM #21
      Quote, originally posted by housmaar »
      the chip difference you notice is in smoothness, the powerband is alot less rocky, but because i don't have cams the powerband sort of dies around 4500 rpm. I've driven a car with autotech 262 cams and it makes a world of difference. Hope this helps

      Good response.. I've also been looking into a cam. The price of a cam installed is almost a third of the VF i've been dying to purchase


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      03-06-2008 09:20 AM #22
      Quote, originally posted by brandonb85 »
      Come on guys cant go forced induction yet.. Any testimonies on a chip for the Vr? best bang for the buck. (minus boost)

      all the chips are pretty much the same (~10-12whp), the greatest part of buying a chip, is that all the chip makers program OUT the throttle lag inherent in the BOSCH programming. This alone makes getting a chip worth the cost.

      but, if you are planning on going FI, you should probably save the $$ and wait.


    23. 03-06-2008 09:20 AM #23
      if you do it when you put in a clutch or chains, it isn't much more expensive, its maybe an extra hour of labor. Just find a good shop to do everything and you should be fine.

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      03-06-2008 09:22 AM #24
      also noted your wanting to install cams....be careful, as most FI programing does NOT work well with cams, due to additional overlap.

    25. Senior Member 87vr6's Avatar
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      03-06-2008 09:25 AM #25
      Quote, originally posted by brandonb85 »
      Hey Vortex'rs I'm sure this is posted somewhere (link if so), but i've searched and cant find the best bang for the buck when upgrading the 12v vr6.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...80698


    26. Member VDFOSHO's Avatar
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      03-06-2008 09:38 AM #26
      spend money freshening things up for forced induction. Do your timing chains. Put money into your transmission(good clutch and flywheel, LSD)

    27. Senior Member ClockworkChad's Avatar
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      03-06-2008 09:48 AM #27
      chip is a great bang for the buck with the 12v. everyone on this forum is saving for a forced induction kit and they will lose interest long before they turbo their cars. the loan isnt that bad for mods (or credit card) if you can manage the payments and get a good interest rate.
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      03-06-2008 09:49 AM #28
      Quote, originally posted by EuroSpec GTI vr6 »
      spend money freshening things up for forced induction. Do your timing chains. Put money into your transmission(good clutch and flywheel, LSD)

      do no't do that.

      yes it's good to verify you have a car ready to handle the FI, but only replace the chains and rails IF you need to. they last well over 200K on the AFP motor, and the rails (if needed) can be replaced, but they only go around 100K + miles on neglected engines)

      transmission - yes the 5 spd is much weaker than the 6 spd, but if not abused it can take the additional load (I know from 4 years of FI testing and running OVER 350whp on my car as a daily driver).

      LSD - if you are wanting to run more than 250whp, then an LSD really is a must.

      Clutch - the stock VR6 clutch is good to about 300 ft/lbs wtq. I used a stock clutch with 40K miles on it for 2 years running about 275whp and 270wtq...ZERO issues.

      bottom end - the VR 6 is VERY stout and the bottom end in known to handle 400whp in stock guise. anything more than that, and you will need to upgrade.

      Do yourself a favor. spend time in the FI fourms, meeting/talking with locall VR FI'd guys, and SEARCHall through these forums for REAL and FACTUAL info on a FI'd VR6.

      there are many of us out here.


      Modified by LSinLV at 6:53 AM 3-6-2008


    29. 03-06-2008 09:52 AM #29
      i disagree with the loan comment, $3,000 is a lot better than taking out a $15,000 car loan (buying a faster car).


      for vr6 performance look into a big valve head, quite a few for sale in the engine classifieds. Also look into cams, they're some mkiv 12v specific cams in the 12v technical forum. also look into building the bottom end if you plan to go fi. ARP bolts and studs all around, rods and get it all balanced. None of this is cheap. But when you get a turbo it will let you go with higher boost. Check out the 2.8 12v technical forum, tons of little things that people have done to squeeze 5whp out.


      Modified by elements757 at 9:56 AM 3-6-2008


    30. Member allmotor6's Avatar
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      03-06-2008 09:53 AM #30
      GIAC, exhaust, intake.

      Makes a HUGE difference.


    31. Member brandonb85's Avatar
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      03-06-2008 02:00 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by LSinLV »

      do no't do that.

      yes it's good to verify you have a car ready to handle the FI, but only replace the chains and rails IF you need to. they last well over 200K on the AFP motor, and the rails (if needed) can be replaced, but they only go around 100K + miles on neglected engines)

      transmission - yes the 5 spd is much weaker than the 6 spd, but if not abused it can take the additional load (I know from 4 years of FI testing and running OVER 350whp on my car as a daily driver).

      LSD - if you are wanting to run more than 250whp, then an LSD really is a must.

      Clutch - the stock VR6 clutch is good to about 300 ft/lbs wtq. I used a stock clutch with 40K miles on it for 2 years running about 275whp and 270wtq...ZERO issues.

      bottom end - the VR 6 is VERY stout and the bottom end in known to handle 400whp in stock guise. anything more than that, and you will need to upgrade.

      Do yourself a favor. spend time in the FI fourms, meeting/talking with locall VR FI'd guys, and SEARCHall through these forums for REAL and FACTUAL info on a FI'd VR6.

      there are many of us out here.


      Modified by LSinLV at 6:53 AM 3-6-2008


      Great response LSinLV,

      Thanks for taking the time to post all that. All of this information is very helpful. I think i will most likely hold off on the cam part of it. Possibly go with the chip (GIAC or Uni havent decided yet) even though it will be useless when i go FI. I'm thinking i might be able to start a stage one from Vf in a couple months. Im hoping to be able to under 3500 for stage one INSTALLED . Its a tight budget but i think it could be possible.


    32. 03-06-2008 02:14 PM #32
      The reason no performance mods are really worth it if you plan on going FI is because any chip upgrade you have will need to be erased for the new software that goes with the turbo.

      You could do camshafts, but anything past 262* isn't worth it, plus now you (possibly) need custom tuning to match with the 262 cams and the turbo/super.

      Really the only mods worth it would be a ram air intake, a 2.5" or 3" exhaust, an lsd, and clutch matched with a lightened flywheel. Unless you plan on making more than ~300-400hp, then you should also work on building the engine a bit stronger. too.


      Modified by sterkrazzy at 2:16 PM 3-6-2008


    33. 03-06-2008 03:59 PM #33
      one other thing you might want to consider is a 3.94 final drive, and a TDI fifth gear. If you are gonna crack the tranny for a LSD this would get the power much more usable

    34. 03-06-2008 04:11 PM #34
      I'm not trying to be mean, but getting a chip a couple of months before you get the VF stage 1 is not smart . It's just a waste of money!

    35. 03-06-2008 04:21 PM #35
      everything you are going to do will be replaced when you go fi, so just save up for the kit..

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