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    Thread: Price of gasoline and diesel before taxes and retail markups

    1. Senior Member
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      03-07-2008 03:17 PM #1
      In case you were wondering how much taxes and retail markups make up in pump prices, here are the prices listed in the commodity section in the Wall Street Journal of March 7, 2008:

      Regular gasoline: $2.49
      Regular gasoline, CARB: $2.73
      Diesel, 15ppm sulfur: $3.27

      The Wall Street Journal is commonly found in libraries, so if you need to look that up (or other things found therein), just go to the library.


    2. Member GiacGtiAgain's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 03:20 PM #2
      Good post. God forbid the government cut the tax on gas during times like these.

    3. Geriatric Member VDub2625's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 03:22 PM #3
      THat's from a refinery to a private station? Or what?

      In before the "OMG we could have $2.50 gas if they cut all profits and taxes?!" replies.

      EDIT: damn, too late.


      Modified by VDub2625 at 2:47 PM 3-7-2008

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    4. Member IJM's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 03:44 PM #4
      Quote, originally posted by GiacGtiAgain »
      Good post. God forbid the government cut the tax on gas during times like these.

      Remember, the government actually makes less gas tax revenue when the price of gas is high. Gas tax is set as X cents per gallon, rather than as a percentage. When gas prices go up, people use less (not much less, as demand is relatively inelastic), meaning the states, etc. take in less gas tax revenue.


    5. Member classicjetta's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 04:01 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by GiacGtiAgain »
      Good post. God forbid the government cut the tax on gas during times like these.

      Yeah, lets make every road a toll road then...that'd be great

      Believe it or not, the government doesn't waste every single dollar you give them. The extensive network of highways we enjoy as Americans wouldn't be possible without gas taxes.


    6. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 04:04 PM #6
      As far as the gas station itself the markup is often $0.00 to $0.10. They make the money off the car wash and service station, not the gasoline.

    7. Member GiacGtiAgain's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 04:04 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by classicjetta »
      Yeah, lets make every road a toll road then...that'd be great

      Believe it or not, the government doesn't waste every single dollar you give them. The extensive network of highways we enjoy as Americans wouldn't be possible without gas taxes.

      Do some homework, report back. We are overtaxed, and I don't care where they cut it. Gas taxes can stay if they cut income tax, or sales tax, or property taxes, etc etc. It would be easy to justify a cut in gas taxes, far easier then justifying our previous tax cuts on income, which upset a lot of people who feel it only benefits the wealthy. I think a cut in the gas tax would be something EVERYONE would rally around. There is tons of waste, and we should focus on stopping that instead of keeping taxes high to support our roadways and infrastructure on top of all the waste. Infrasture = essential, waste = criminal


    8. 03-07-2008 05:54 PM #8
      I think we should do away with gasoline taxes. That way OPEC and Big Oil can have all my money to themselves

    9. 03-07-2008 06:06 PM #9



      Modified by Brett92 at 5:20 PM 3-7-2008
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    10. 03-07-2008 07:08 PM #10
      thanks for the post. can you believe that like 15 years ago it was like half the price?!

    11. Member delta v's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 07:53 PM #11
      Quote, originally posted by classicjetta »

      Yeah, lets make every road a toll road then...that'd be great

      Be fine with me! I take the subway to work everyday

      Actually, just kidding: I realize the effect this would have on all of our consumer goods.

      Quote, originally posted by classicjetta »

      Believe it or not, the government doesn't waste every single dollar you give them. The extensive network of highways we enjoy as Americans wouldn't be possible without gas taxes.

      Roads are fine; its all the other garbage that the government spends money on. But thats a discussion for another thread in another forum...

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    12. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 07:56 PM #12
      I think we need higher fuel taxes. The higher fuel prices go, the more practical vehicles people drive.



      Modified by BRealistic at 7:02 PM 3/7/2008
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      03-07-2008 08:00 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by BRealistic »
      I think we need higher fuel taxes. The higher fuel prices go, the more practical vehicles people drive.

      I agree comletely. Maybe then these half-wit soccer moms will park their Excusions.


    14. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 08:03 PM #14
      And "cutting taxes" is one of the stupidest things to suggest economically. The US federal government is run like they are purposely trying to bankrupt the entire government. Talk about keeping America safe- if our currency turns to ashes due to the way our federal government is run, nobody is "safe" anyore.
      If anything we need more taxes and more controlled spending on things that do not directly help average US citizens.

      For example>
      Here is an idea- why not repeal all those stupid loop holes in the tax laws so we can actually collect taxes on the huge record profits of these oil companies? And while on that subject, let's actually make them *gasp* pay to pump oil from our federally owned lands, and also be 100% responsible for any impact on that ecosystem.


      Modified by BRealistic at 7:04 PM 3/7/2008

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    15. Moderator TREGinginCO's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 08:09 PM #15
      Also remember... gas tax revenue is a 100% profit for the government.

      The government doesn't spend a dime researching, finding, drilling, processing, shipping, selling or marketing a freaking ounce of fuel... but they sure draw 100% profit off it.

      I'm not even going to get into the taxes argument in this country... they're too high and the government spends too damn much of it and when the economy is tough... the government never does with less.


    16. Moderator TREGinginCO's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 08:11 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by BRealistic »
      And "cutting taxes" is one of the stupidest things to suggest economically. The US federal government is run like they are purposely trying to bankrupt the entire government. Talk about keeping America safe- if our currency turns to ashes due to the way our federal government is run, nobody is "safe" anyore.
      If anything we need more taxes and more controlled spending on things that do not directly help average US citizens.

      For example>
      Here is an idea- why not repeal all those stupid loop holes in the tax laws so we can actually collect taxes on the huge record profits of these oil companies? And while on that subject, let's actually make them *gasp* pay to pump oil from our federally owned lands, and also be 100% responsible for any impact on that ecosystem.


      Modified by BRealistic at 7:04 PM 3/7/2008

      Your agenda is pretty clear... good thing you're not running the show.


    17. Member GiacGtiAgain's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 08:20 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by TREGinginCO »
      Your agenda is pretty clear... good thing you're not running the show.

      We are already bullied enough. Economic force is no better then forcing people by the barrel of a gun.

      http://www.bureaucrash.com


    18. Member IJM's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 08:32 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by TREGinginCO »
      Also remember... gas tax revenue is a 100% profit for the government.

      The government doesn't spend a dime researching, finding, drilling, processing, shipping, selling or marketing a freaking ounce of fuel... but they sure draw 100% profit off it.

      ORLY? The recent and not-so-recent forays into the Middle East sponsored by our government are completely removed from the oil supply chain?


    19. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 08:43 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by TREGinginCO »

      Your agenda is pretty clear... good thing you're not running the show.

      The agenda of for the people and by the people is not something that I made up. (Shrug)

      Anyways, we all have different ideas of how to fund our government. But taxing the companies that make profits from our society has/had always been a major component.


      As far as fuel price go- I am well over hearing people complain about prices. They have had long enough to make life choice changes to use less fuel. Anybody that keeps the same life choices and just expects fuel to get cheap again for any length of time is an idiot.



      Modified by BRealistic at 7:46 PM 3/7/2008

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    20. 03-07-2008 08:47 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by TREGinginCO »
      Also remember... gas tax revenue is a 100% profit for the government.

      The government doesn't spend a dime researching, finding, drilling, processing, shipping, selling or marketing a freaking ounce of fuel... but they sure draw 100% profit off it.

      I'm not even going to get into the taxes argument in this country... they're too high and the government spends too damn much of it and when the economy is tough... the government never does with less.

      The government gives billions of dollars to oil companies each year. The government allows them to drill and extract oil from public lands for almost nothing. Your ignorance is ridiculous. Most gas taxes go toward roads and transportation infrastructure that allow people to have jobs.


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      03-07-2008 08:53 PM #21
      You guys are complaining about taxes

      <-----


    22. 03-07-2008 09:01 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by Golfotron »
      You guys are complaining about taxes

      <-----

      That's whats so ridiculous. The US government is $9.2 Trillion in debt and we have the lowest taxes of any major industrialized country. Yet half our country complain about taxes.


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      03-07-2008 09:18 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by WakeHead »

      That's whats so ridiculous. The US government is $9.2 Trillion in debt and we have the lowest taxes of any major industrialized country. Yet half our country complain about taxes.

      Shhhh. You can't use facts and logic when discussing taxes. That's unAmerican.

      Anyways- I'll just add one more thing since this is teetering on political comments,and I know how much the mods hate political commentary here. It is ridiculous that our country has industries with guaranteed profits. Oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, etc- all play in a system where they can do whatever they like without any significant oversight or consequences. We should be concerned with creating a sustainable and viable society. Yet we all act like wild dogs on a fresh kill- trying to get our fill as quickly as possible before the meal is gone.

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      03-07-2008 09:18 PM #24
      Diesel costs more than gas? Isn't it less refined? Someone please enlighten me.
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      03-07-2008 09:21 PM #25
      Quote, originally posted by lowredcabrio »
      Diesel costs more than gas? Isn't it less refined? Someone please enlighten me.

      supply>demand.

      There may be something with the new low sulfur diesel too.

      Though don't ask why they have yet to respond by increasing production.

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    26. 03-07-2008 11:40 PM #26
      Quote, originally posted by BRealistic »

      supply>demand.

      There may be something with the new low sulfur diesel too.

      Though don't ask why they have yet to respond by increasing production.


      It is all about supply and demand.
      Control the supply and one can demand higher prices.

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    27. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      03-07-2008 11:46 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by WakeHead »
      That's whats so ridiculous. The US government is $9.2 Trillion in debt and we have the lowest taxes of any major industrialized country. Yet half our country complain about taxes.

      Keep in mind that PLENTY complain about the spending too. I for one am fine with leaving taxes alone or even raising taxes a little if the government would CUT SPENDING enough to run a budget surplus high enough to have the debt paid off in 30 years.


    28. 03-07-2008 11:50 PM #28
      Taxes are very Euro

    29. 03-08-2008 12:05 AM #29
      Quote, originally posted by -HighdB- »

      I agree comletely. Maybe then these half-wit soccer moms will park their Excusions.

      How about the full-wit soccer moms? Talk about an agenda. People should be able to drive what they want. Half-wit soccer moms are not the reason for high gas prices, don't you know that? Globally emerging countries with a thirst for petroleum are buying up the inventory.

      That was quite the uninformed comment.


      Modified by LhW at 11:08 PM 3-7-2008


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      03-08-2008 12:27 AM #30
      Quote, originally posted by LhW »

      People should be able to drive what they want.

      And anybody should be able to pilot a plane, or a semi, or wield an RPG.

      I am all for the rights of the individual. But we all seem to have different opinions on when those rights trample on the rights of others. If you want to make traffic "fair", then every single traffic law violation should be harsher for those with heavier and taller vehicles. That would be completely and logically fair since those heavier vehicles are endangering others more. And if you openly admit that- then you have to administer stricter license tests for those vehicles too.
      But that will not happen as long as we have a government run by people who need very deep pocket support to get elected. And the only pockets that deep are the corporations needing the influence our laws to better protect their profits.

      And I am so hypocritical. I love using fuel. But that's only when I am the only vehicle on the immediate roadway. But then again- maybe I am splitting hairs?

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      03-08-2008 12:29 AM #31
      Those tax will never be lifted forever.
      And prices and supplies will just increase in the future.

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      03-08-2008 12:35 AM #32
      Quote, originally posted by IJM »

      Remember, the government actually makes less gas tax revenue when the price of gas is high. Gas tax is set as X cents per gallon, rather than as a percentage. When gas prices go up, people use less (not much less, as demand is relatively inelastic), meaning the states, etc. take in less gas tax revenue.

      Erm.....aren't gas taxes different for each state? I know Georgia's is a percentage.
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    33. 03-08-2008 12:42 AM #33
      Quote, originally posted by BRealistic »

      And anybody should be able to pilot a plane, or a semi, or wield an RPG.

      I am all for the rights of the individual. But we all seem to have different opinions on when those rights trample on the rights of others. If you want to make traffic "fair", then every single traffic law violation should be harsher for those with heavier and taller vehicles. That would be completely and logically fair since those heavier vehicles are endangering others more. And if you openly admit that- then you have to administer stricter license tests for those vehicles too.
      But that will not happen as long as we have a government run by people who need very deep pocket support to get elected. And the only pockets that deep are the corporations needing the influence our laws to better protect their profits.

      And I am so hypocritical. I love using fuel. But that's only when I am the only vehicle on the immediate roadway. But then again- maybe I am splitting hairs?

      Opinions and rights are two different things. Do not get them confused. The Constitution is a very basic document. Government, or any citizen, does not technically have the right to determine what I drive. But alas, in this era of feel-good legislation that trumps the invisible hand of free market, and rights regress as a result.

      Blame is all on your perspective. People blame "soccer-moms" for high gas prices because they have no grasp of a world economy. They see them on the highway so they become a target of ridicule. No concept of cause and effect, economics, or a global economy. They want government to regulate stuff like this thinking in their narrow minds that this will somehow benefit them personally. Simple minded thinking. I don't get it.

      Gas prices suck. People have their opinions, whether they understand their own thinking or not. We are all different.


      Modified by LhW at 11:46 PM 3-7-2008


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      03-08-2008 01:00 AM #34
      Quote, originally posted by LhW »

      Opinions and rights are two different things. Do not get them confused. The Constitution is a very basic document. Government, or any citizen, does not technically have the right to determine what I drive. But alas, in this era of feel-good legislation that trumps the invisible hand of free market, and rights regress as a result.

      Down with judicial interpretation! We should read a ~230 year old document literally and as it was written.

      The Supreme Court has defined the scope of congress respect to the commerce clause. They are the ones charged with interpreting the constitution. Therefore, "technically", the decisions of the Court do say that the government may determine what you can or cannot drive. They do it everyday.

      how come a transvestite donkey witch is next to you and why is it wearing a dress?

      Say 'what' again. Say 'what' again, I dare you, I double dare you mother****er, say what one more goddamn time!

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      03-08-2008 01:41 AM #35
      Quote, originally posted by what »
      Down with judicial interpretation! We should read a ~230 year old document literally and as it was written.

      The Supreme Court has defined the scope of congress respect to the commerce clause. They are the ones charged with interpreting the constitution. Therefore, "technically", the decisions of the Court do say that the government may determine what you can or cannot drive. They do it everyday.


      The court abuses its power day in and day out. The court has become a legislating body with a specific agenda. And it goes both ways, there are lefties and righties guilty of abusing the court system and using it to manipulate policy.

      I don't want to turn this into a full on political debate but i think the above statement is pretty hard to argue with. Again, both sides are guilty. As for gas prices...i don't even wanna get into it.


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