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    Thread: My Kitchen(Home) Rebuild

    1. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-17-2008 10:15 PM #1
      **Still editing uploading a couple hundred pics so it'll take a few days to get this thread up to current day**

      Bought a house on December '06 and it went bad quickly. The previous owner lied through their teeth on the disclosure form. He was also a homeowner w/ no mechanical skill at all. Everytime I touch something I find 10 more things that are done wrong. I should have just gutted the house entirely but cash flow(and me changing my mind every 10 minutes) prevented me from doing it. I did gut the second floor and re-did everything. I'll get around to posting pics of that eventually.

      This might offend some, but I hate homeowners who think they know what they're doing. Leave it to a professional(which I am) if you don't have any mechanical skill. You guys would save me so much time in my life if this was the case

      I waved a home inspection(this is a complete racket w/ no certification requirements) because I bought the house for $40,000 less than market value and knew there were things that needed attention. And I have yet to meet a home inspector that knows what they're looking at. You can call me jaded but I don't trust anyone but my friends that are in the mechanical trades and myself.

      So this is where it all went downhill. Flushed the toilet for the first time and what do you know......I have a waterfall in my kitchen. They lied about plumbing problems. As you'll see from the upcoming pics(most of them later on) there was no way they could not have know about this.

      Cast Iron Stack that is leaking.

      After removing the paneling....if I didn't mention every wall in the house has paneling on it

      Mold and rotten wood that was apparent before I removed anything

      Yes, that's literally ****. They tried to seal it w/ silicone(this does not work)

      I can't imagine why the wall was a waterfall

      Removed the old stack

      Installed a new one

      I eventually cut the stack down right above the floor and installed a clean-out tee. You'll see this in later pics.

      That's all for now but there is plenty more to go




      Modified by dragon813gt at 10:16 PM 3-17-2008


    2. Member 20thAEguy's Avatar
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      03-17-2008 10:57 PM #2
      woohoo yey for pics
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      03-18-2008 08:03 AM #3
      Wow that is a mess. I know you didn't want a home inspection but a second set of eyes is always helpful, even if they don't completely know what they are doing.

    4. Member White Jetta's Avatar
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      03-18-2008 10:45 AM #4
      Well if you bought the house like i did, knowing there was problems, then i guess you really can't complain with what you have been finding.

      Not having it inspected and buying it "as is" won't hold much weight in court if you ever intended to go that route. But it doesn't sound like that's your course of action.

      I bought my 1+1/2 cape for $40k knowing it was practically condemned, and dumped $150k into it, and now it's like new in and out with a market value of between $270k-$290k

      The only down side is that the work and little jobs never end

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    5. 03-18-2008 11:55 AM #5
      Why didn't you have one of your friends "inspect" the property even if you waived the formal inspection.

    6. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-18-2008 07:12 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by ImRollin »
      Why didn't you have one of your friends "inspect" the property even if you waived the formal inspection.

      We did inspect it. But the previous owner did their best to hid everything. As far as the leaking stack goes. The fridge in the kitchen was directly underneath it and they had a bunch of plastic bags piled up on the side so you couldn't see all the rot on the floor. Pulling out the refrigirator was not part of the inspection.

      And just to make this very clear. I knew there were problems w/ the house to begin w/. I knew of many of the problems that you will see in the forthcoming pics. The house was sold as is so an inspection wouldn't have done me any good excpet waste money. The vast majority of the problems were only revealed once I started disassembling everything. An inspection would not have found them. It really boiled down to someone attempting to work on the house that had no clue what they were doing.

      I'm not saying I'm reparing everything 100% by the book and how it should be. I don't know everything about every trade. But there is no way I could make the house worse then it was. And I'm sure the pics will show that I sort of know what I'm doing

      The house is 108 years old so hopefully you know what types of headaches this brings about by itself. Thankfully, all the knob and tube was already removed from the house. But the wiring still left a lot to be deisred so I redid what I could. This is the main reason I wish i would have gutted the entire house. I would have liked to re-wire everything so I could get rid of the large junction box(dont' ask) in my basement.

      More pics coming later tonight


    7. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-18-2008 07:56 PM #7
      Ok it's later
      And sorry if everything isn't spelled properly. It seems that a good portion of hte keys on my laptop don't like working anymore. Going through spell check takes to long so **** it

      So after fixing the stack I decided to just use the existing walls and throw up some paneling since the rest of the house had it already.

      Just a pic of the old PVC piping before I decided to remove it

      It was really rotted in front of the door so I decided to cut out the flooring and investigate.

      Dont' have any pics of the old door but this is the new. Picked up a French Door for $300 and it's actually not that bad. Sure it's not made for the lattitude that I live in but it's way better than what was there. The old once was pretty much wood putty from halfway down from the old owner's dog destroying it.

      Just the same cut out from before. The new door pics are about 10 months after the inital stack pics.

      So this is what the kitchen used to look like

      The cabinets fell apart in my hands. They were barely held together by brads. I was upset becuase I wanted to use the sledge to take out some agression but it wasn't really needed

      Hey look, water pipes on an outside wall. What you can't see is that there was a tee cut into it and went outside into an old atrium. I guess they used to have a wet bar there but the atrium was removed and it was open to the elements. All they did was cut off the pipes and left a good 4" sticking outside. Needless to say, when I was initally going to just make do w/ the kitchen I had a huge water leak becuase the pipes froze

      Just tearing **** out

      ****ty cabinets

      Rot

      For some reason they used 2x4 sheets of cabinet grade Oak to put over the original floor. I can't fathom why they did this or what this cost. This was there sollution to the rot problem. Apparently all wood sucks up water and rots

      Cleanout Tee installed and more rot

      My paneling job that was removed

      The rot was so bad I ripped up everything

      So this a heat run that went out to the atrium and was still hooked up. I was heating the outside. The run w/ the insulation in it was meant to go to a heat run in the old cabinets. But they put the flooring over it as it was never hooked up. Talk about inefficent radiant heating. I put the insulation in it to stop the cold air from coming in.

      More demo w/ the existing walls removed.

      So you saw those pics w/ the floor cut out in front of the door. The joist in front of it was completey rotted and not tied into anything. It fell over once I removed the floor.

      Let's just throw all the trash underneath the joists since we'll never see it

      Heat run. I'm a HVAC Service tech by trade and this type of thing really irks me to no end. It was tied into the heat run in the bathroom above. And of course this run comes off the end of the ductwork so all the air is forced up it, instead of out the other runs.

      More Mess

      This is where I'l penetrate the wall to bring in 2 heat runs, water & gas piping. The wall is only a mere 2' thick so it went real quick......2 hours and a Hilti w/ chisel bits, that kept getting stuck, and a smaller Bosch hammer drill to get those bits out

      Old plumbing that was so perfect

      Old water lines came up on the other side of the 2' wall and were then penetrated at the celing in the kichen. The gas line followed the same path. This killed the celing height so this was obviously ditched.

      Best heat run evar

      Vapor barrier down and wter lines ruffed in.

      Cound't find my plus so for pressure testing I had to tie the lines together. This is just what I wanted to do since copper is so cheap




      Modified by dragon813gt at 7:58 PM 3-18-2008


    8. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-18-2008 08:09 PM #8
      Old joists were spaced to far apart and the floor really flexed. Put some 2x6s in w/ joist hangers to sure everythign up.

      You can see the hole through the wall.

      Brought the heat runs through. I hate flex but pipe was not an option. I had to dig a trench to get the flex underneath the joists in ceartin areas. It was the easiest sollution and has the advantage of being insulated

      Brought the gas line over. It's 3/4" Trac Pipe. Would have ran 1/2" but I already had a 3/4" floor flange and the actual pipe is free. Those floor flanges aren't cheap and I didn't want to buy another one. If I ever diceide to put a Viking range in I'm fine. I also have enough capacity where I could tee in for an outdoor grill since my porch is on the other side of the wall.

      Got the floor insulated. Don't ask why the paper is up in ceartin areas

      That looks like a bunch of cabinets

      The material for the subfloor and walls.

      This build brought to you by

      There's a good 30 cases missing from this pic. I don't drink at all when I'm working. Unfortuantely my friends do. Which is why I don't invite them over unless I absolutely need a hand. They just slow me down. I've done 95% of the work by myself.


    9. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-18-2008 08:15 PM #9
      Subfloor is down

      I had already redone my bathroom but I just adapted to the pold PVC pipes. And of course I left myself a lot of room to work w/ when I brought the new copper pipes over.


      And just a few quick pics of the second floor. I'll post all of the later on.
      Before:
      Supid large pic: http://i198.photobucket.com/al...7.jpg

      What it went down to. it's a larger pic that I have to resize so I'll just link it now
      http://i198.photobucket.com/al...0.jpg

      And after(before trim)




      Modified by dragon813gt at 8:18 PM 3-18-2008


    10. Member jddaigle's Avatar
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      03-18-2008 09:43 PM #10
      Wow, hell of a house--good for you for sticking with it! As a HVAC guy what don't you like about the flex for heating runs? I seem to see it used more and more these days, what are the pros and cons?
      - Jeff

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    11. Member paul wall's Avatar
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      03-18-2008 10:27 PM #11
      Dude, incredible work man. I can only imagine the crap you've had to deal with. Keep on keepin on man.

    12. 03-18-2008 10:30 PM #12
      oh my dear god.

      i think i would have torched the place for insurance once i hit the floor.

      kudos to you sir


    13. Member White Jetta's Avatar
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      03-18-2008 11:00 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by Burnoutx »
      oh my dear god.

      i think i would have torched the place for insurance once i hit the floor.

      kudos to you sir

      X2 with a brick. My house was born in 1925, and it was no where near as bad as that, not even close. I would have just torched the place, damn

      Here's to you

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    14. Geriatric Member Travy's Avatar
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      03-18-2008 11:42 PM #14
      Looks like a fun new project buddy. good luck
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    15. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-19-2008 08:01 AM #15
      Quote, originally posted by jddaigle »
      As a HVAC guy what don't you like about the flex for heating runs? I seem to see it used more and more these days, what are the pros and cons?

      Flex is easy to run. I really hate working w/ insulation. It really irritates me. But flex does have it's benefits. Like I said it's insulated. It also kills sound. It makes for a quieter system if you use a short run right before the register. But there is a high static pressure loss compared to metal pipe. It needs to pulled tight the whole way or this increases even more.

      There are two types of flex. One is meant for runs under 25' while the other(which I used) is meant for runs over this. The main thing I hate about it is how it looks. Most people just throw it in and you have an octopus for a system. This looks like garbage. I throw ductboard in the same category as flex. We have a fabrication shop at work so I've always worked w/ metal. A nice system w/ metal ductwork and runs looks 1000000000x better than a ductboard system w/ flex runs. But most people could care less unless their system is broken.

      I'll upload some pics of my heater install. I ripped out an oil furnace from 1953 and installed a nice new Trane 2 stage natural gas heater


    16. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-19-2008 08:29 PM #16
      Decided to run all new electric so I cut up the bottom half the drywall on the south side of the kitchen. And surprise, found more rot. The outside of the part of the kitchen is scratch coated. There is no tar paper and the vapor barrier was right behind the drywall. A scratch coat is not water tight. Which I'm assuming the previous owner wasn't aware of.

      The framing in this part of the kitchen is completely whacked. There were studs that didn't go all the way up. And there isn't much of a header above the window. I couldn't knock down the walls, so I made do and sured things up as best I could.

      Got the electric roughed in.

      Soffit starting to take shape.

      This was originally an outside wall so it's 3 courses of brick thick. Had to drill two holes through it to bring all the electric through. These holes were really easy and went through like butter.

      Walls all framed up and electric roughed in.


      Soffit complete and high hats in. I screwed up the measurements and placed the 4" cans really close to the corner cabinets. I didn't realize this until I put the cabinets up. It's not the end of the world. But I had to beef up the under cabinet lighting to ensure there was enough lighting in this area.

      Roughed in the plumbing for the bathroom.

      All insulated and plumbing complete <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://verruckt.com/vwvortex/icon/gnbeer.gif" BORDER="0">



      Modified by dragon813gt at 11:26 AM 3-22-2008


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      03-20-2008 07:53 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by Travy »
      Looks like a fun new project buddy. good luck

      what are you talking about travy??? house looked like ****!! steve. man.. you are crazy! nice work on bringing it back from the dead.

      i now see why cars arent that important to you lately


    18. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-20-2008 08:15 PM #18
      Like everything else in the house the basement was a mess. The hot water heater was a tiny 30 gallon that was leaking. And the heater was an oil fired beast from 1953. Needless to say they both had to go.

      The thing was a tank.

      They haven't made a heater in well over 40 years.

      Such a large raised pad for both of them.

      Worst venting I've ever seen. I've never seen hot flue gases that travel down hill. It's was also a natural gas hot water heater venting into the same chimney as the oil furnace. Not illegal but the connection is completely wrong.

      Rebuilt the entire burner. I did this just to get me through the first winter. The only thing I reused was the frame and the air band/shutter. And even then I could only achieve a 75% efficiency w/ a trace of fuel rich smoke. It's amazing that I could get it running this well. Had it firing at 140,000(1 gph) BTU and this is why the smoke was still fuel rich. The chamber was massive and I wasn't firing at a high enough rate to keep the flame tight and take up enough of the chamber to not cool the edges. Firing up to 175,000 BTU(1.25 gph) would have fixed this.

      Stripped down.

      Killed a 6" heavy duty grinding wheel taking it apart. The flue was 8" in diamter and 1/4" thick steel. It took 3 of us to get it out of the basement. And even then it was a PITA and extremely heavy. I've lifted boilers that weigh less.

      Look at all that free space.

      New units take up less space then the original furnace.

      Trane 2 stage 60,000 BTU furnace. That's right. I went from firing at 140,000 BTU to 60,000 and the house heats better now. It's natural gas so no need to worry about oil deliveries or $105 a barrel oil. But natural gas is going to be de-regulated in two years so I'm sure my bills are going to go up a lot.

      Bradford White 40 gallon hot water heater that I installed a mixing valve on to increase my capacity and recovery rate. Running it at 160 degrees but I won't run out of hot water. I also won't have to heat up a large cold mass of water since I'm pulling less hot water out of the tank. I'll do a cost comparison of running it like this compared to conventionally once I'm in the house. Everything is valved off so it's a 2 second switch.

      Put a pump under the sink basin. This initially just drained into the sump pump well. And the sump pump drained into the sink basin. Talk about self defeating I'm not finished w/ this yet as I still have to hook the sump in as well as the washer.

      You don't even want to know what the hookups looked like before.

      I still have plenty of pics to upload and I'm nowhere near done the house yet. Hopefully I'll be in the house by the end of May. Here's what the house looks like from the outside. Took this after we installed the new front door. The old one was in disrepair just like the rear one.



      Modified by dragon813gt at 8:21 PM 3-20-2008


    19. Member ericjohnston27's Avatar
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      03-20-2008 09:23 PM #19
      such a cool thread man. you do good work. im hoping to get into a house pretty soon, hopefully not as much work will be needed. it would be fun to rebuild one though. if it wasnt my money
      keep it goin, good luck
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    20. Member White Jetta's Avatar
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      03-20-2008 10:59 PM #20
      I'm not feeling that breaker panel and wires next to the sink. It's amazing what the got away with back in the day, mixing electricity and water
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      03-20-2008 11:25 PM #21
      Now this is what I call an entertaining thread! Great collection of photos, by the way. Quite a project you have on your hands.
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    22. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-21-2008 05:52 AM #22
      Quote, originally posted by White Jetta »
      I'm not feeling that breaker panel and wires next to the sink. It's amazing what the got away with back in the day, mixing electricity and water

      The breaker panel is high enough to not concern me. And the wires that are underneath the panel are going away. Those are the feed for my garage sub-panel and the telephone lines. I'll be re-running them in a little bit. I do need to change the outlet that's right off the panel to a GCFI. And at some point I'm going to change out the entire panel for one that isn't all mini-breakers

      I'll take a pic of the sub-panel in the garage. You won't beleive this one when you see it


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      03-21-2008 08:44 AM #23
      Quote, originally posted by dragon813gt »

      I'll take a pic of the sub-panel in the garage. You won't beleive this one when you see it

      I can't wait to see the mayham

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    24. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-21-2008 05:15 PM #24

      My hand got pulled in between a belt and pulley at work today. The unit was off but it was still moving at a decent clip. Nothing broken but I can't put any pressure on my right thumb(I'm right handed). I was finally moving along at a decent clip and this happened. Won't be able to work on the house for at least a week but I'm still a few months behind w/ the pictures. Time to drink away the pain....both in my hand and my left bicep because they gave me a tetanus shot as well

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      03-21-2008 05:47 PM #25
      Home improvement is so cool to watch. Sorry about the injury. Hopefully you're back on the saw horse in no time. Moar pictures!!

    26. Member H2oWerker's Avatar
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      03-21-2008 06:47 PM #26
      All I can say about your before pictures is "Yikes!" and the work you've done is beautiful, keep it up.

      Sorry to hear about the injuries, but I think you deserve a break anyway. Not to mention more than a couple 's.



      Modified by dragon1.8t at 5:49 PM 3-21-2008


    27. 03-21-2008 07:48 PM #27
      man you are a glutton for punishment. The stuff that was wrong there is just incredible. And your are right there was a ton of halfassed work in that place.

    28. Member paul wall's Avatar
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      03-22-2008 05:06 AM #28
      Pics are looking great man, and looks like you've made some pretty steady progress.

      Quick question.

      Why did you decide to go with a soffit and shorter upper cabinets vs. taller ones?

      Oh and it's a good thing the injury to your hand was on the job and not at your house.


    29. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-22-2008 11:24 AM #29
      Quote, originally posted by paul wall »
      Why did you decide to go with a soffit and shorter upper cabinets vs. taller ones?

      Oh and it's a good thing the injury to your hand was on the job and not at your house.

      Yes, it was a good thing it was on the job. I have hurt myself at the house though. While spackling the kitchen I fell off the ladder and landed on a drywall bucket. I landed right on my hip so I had a hard time bending down for awhile. Thankfully it wasn't worse and I didn't break anything.

      As far as taller cabinets go. Three reasons. The larger side of the kitchen is getting a drop celing and I hate when they right up to cabinets. I needed a place to place high hats on the smaller side since access to the existing celing wasn't very easy. And of course money. The whole kitchen remodel nees to last 5 years. Then I'll have enough equity in the house to put an addition on the side and move the kitchen. The current kithcen will eventually be a laundry/mud room. It's rathe large so it'll also be an extra pantry area.

      This is all in the future so I still need it to be functional. The biggest factor was money. I'm trying to spend as little money as possible. But as you'll see I still like high end products so I'm not cheaping out entirely.


    30. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-22-2008 12:40 PM #30
      Drywall hung and first coast on.

      The arch wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. I should have but the corner bead in more places so I didn't get the hard points in two areas. But the radius was really tight and it would have broken in to many places.

      All finished

      Teaser pic
      I changed the color up a little bit from this because it was really red. And Valspar paint blows. I ended up giving everything a first coat and it rolled like ****. Coverage was terrible and it didn't relax at all. It was also a satin finish because for some reason the idiot(and they all are) working at Lowe's said I could only get it satin or semi-gloss. Eventually went to Home Depot and they were able to match it in a flat enamel. I don't know why Lowe's wouldn't do this when I asked. I'll end my rant w/ this.....both Home Depot and Lowe's are a waste and have nothing but idiots working for them. I actually enjoy being a dick and laughing in their faces when they ask if they can help me. The best they can do is point to where a product is on the shelf.

      The 45s were a complete PITA. This was after I had it done but I decided to use Sure Corner tape anyway. It gave me a hard line but I don't have an adjustable knife so I couldn't get the spackle to lay completely right. It's behind the fridge so you'll never see it. And w/ the flat paint you can't see the imperfections unless there is a spot light on it.

      All primed up


      Just to re-iterate. Lowe's and Home Depot are worthless and should be burnt to the ground. Unfortunately the supply houses I prefer to use have the same hours as I do. So by the time I get home they're closed. I'm sort of stuck using the big chains. I'm completely done w/ Lowe's. They screwed up my cabinet order and I'm hoping the tile order goes well. It's already been delayed by 4 weeks when I was supposed to have it in 7 days


      Modified by dragon813gt at 12:41 PM 3-22-2008


    31. Member paul wall's Avatar
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      03-22-2008 06:44 PM #31
      I understand the reasoning now with the soffits, it will obviously make more sense as you start hanging the cabinets, but unfortunately cost always plays a huge role in things.

      How much fun was it doing the bends for that arch?


    32. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-23-2008 03:47 AM #32
      Quote, originally posted by paul wall »
      How much fun was it doing the bends for that arch?

      It wasn't that bad. And if I wouldn't havel istened to a friend it would have been perfect. I wanted to go w/ metal corner bead but I listened to him and went w/ plastic. After I got done cutting the reliefs for the bend it was veyr brittle and prone to breaking. It did physically break on the right side of the arch but you wouldn't know because I was able to finsih the drywall well enough. If I would have went w/ metal I could have cut the reliefs alot closer to make the bend perfectly. Like everything you live and learn. I've been on construction sites since I was 6 years old but I haven't practiced most of what I'm currently doing for well over 12 years. You forget all the little tricks at first but they all come back to you in time


    33. Member White Jetta's Avatar
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      Why don't you take a seat over there
      03-23-2008 09:50 AM #33
      What did you do/use to get the rounded endges of this doorway?

      It looks nice

      Sent on a Post-It by way of carrier pigeon

    34. Member dragon813gt's Avatar
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      03-23-2008 02:21 PM #34
      Painted and cabinets hung


    35. Member 20thAEguy's Avatar
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      03-23-2008 09:14 PM #35
      you sure are handy. Great work! Learn everything on your own?
      Current: 95 GTI VRT

      Past: 2007 A4 sline 3.2 Quattro, 2003 BMP GTI 20th, 2001 911 C2

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