CBS sport "The IRL is not real racing"

[livingVoice]

Danica win could be a one hit wonder.

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/10793432

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Pat on Danica's back? Let's not race to be condescending Why do we set the bar so low for women in sports? The world's top female tennis player, Billie Jean King, beats a 55-year-old male has-been named Bobby Riggs in 1973, and it's a huge day for women's rights? I get the timing of the whole thing. It was different in the early 1970s. Men were men and women were somewhere in the background baking us cookies. We were sexist pigs back then, and nobody played the sexist pig better than Riggs. But King was at the top of her game. Riggs was an old man. Beating him wasn't the most she could do. It was the least. Decades have passed, but we're still condescending when it comes to women in sports. A high school senior named Candace Parker enters the (boys) slam dunk competition at the 2004 McDonald's All-American Game, gently pushes the ball through the rim, and wins the event. J.R. Smith practically sat on the basket for a few of his dunks, but Parker won because, well, she won because she was a girl. And don't tell me I'm being sexist, because I'm not. The judges were being sexist for symbolically patting Parker on her pretty little head and telling her, my, what a sweet thing she is. At least Danica Patrick competed with men on a level playing field when she won the Indy Japan 300 on Sunday in Motegi, Japan. Patrick played the exact same sport as everyone else, was held to the same standards, and won. What she did was more impressive, from a sports standpoint, than King's tennis win over a washed-up Riggs or Parker's condescending dunk "victory." But this was not all that impressive. Not if you look with the jaded eyes of neutrality, which very few of you undoubtedly possess. Then again, maybe I don't possess those eyes either. Not on Danica Patrick. She has rubbed me the wrong way for years, including her ridiculous marketing choices, like when she stares seductively into the camera to hawk antifreeze or pretends to peel down her racing suit and makes beaver jokes -- I'm not making that up -- for GoDaddy.com. Patrick has bugged me for a while, and I'll tell you exactly when it started: It started in July 2006 when she said she was considering a move to NASCAR. No problem there. But then she smugly wondered how high those TV ratings would be. Big problem there. At the time, Patrick was 10th on the Indy Racing League -- 10th out of the 15 drivers who raced every week. She was a non-factor on her B-list racing circuit. And she's wondering about the ratings for her NASCAR debut? Hey, sweetheart, try qualifying for a NASCAR event. Then we'll talk ratings. If you're wondering why I'm wrapping a wet blanket around what Mike Freeman is foolishly calling a warm and snuggly story, that's the biggest reason: the IRL is not real racing. Not real good racing, anyway. It's not the best car circuit in this country -- that would be NASCAR -- and it's not even the best open-wheel series in the world. That would be Formula One. So what is the IRL? It's a training ground for decent drivers who hope to be good enough to race somewhere important some day. Sam Hornish Jr. won the IRL season championship in 2001, '02 and '06. Dario Franchitti won the IRL title in 2007. That's the best the IRL has to offer -- or had to offer. Both left the IRL for NASCAR, where they are overmatched. In 17 career NASCAR starts, neither has finished in the top 10. Hornish has broken into the top 20 once in 10 tries. Franchitti? Never. Patrick Carpentier, another dominant open-wheel racer in this country, can't break into the top 10 of a NACAR race, either. The IRL is the junior varsity of racing, is what I'm saying. Danica Patrick finally won herself a JV race, and that's good for her, and it's a neat story. The first woman to do anything -- the first man to do anything, too -- is always cool. But let's not take this too far, OK? Winning in the IRL isn't a matter of talent. It's a matter of time. Race 50 times, as Patrick has done in the IRL, and you're bound to win eventually, especially when you have the best car and support team money can buy, as Patrick does. A typical NASCAR weekend will have nearly 50 drivers trying just to get into the field. In the IRL, the field is less than half that large -- and, as I've already explained, significantly less skilled. To win the Indy Japan 300 on Sunday, Patrick had to finish ahead of 17 other drivers. That's it. She beat 17 cars. Do that at Talladega, and you finish 26th. Those are details nobody wants to hear, and I don't understand why. Maybe you think I'm sexist for pointing those details out. Maybe I think you're sexist for not wanting to know, for wanting instead to feel good about the pioneering done by Patrick and therefore to feel good about your socially uplifted self rather than holding women, and men, to the same standards. Drag-racer Shirley Muldowney won the NHRA's elite Top Fuel season championship three times. Jockey Julie Krone won more than 3,700 career horse races, including the 1993 Belmont. After the Professional Women's Bowling Association went under in 2003, three PBWA bowlers -- Liz Johnson, Kelly Kulick and Cathy Dorin-Lizzi -- joined the men's tour and earned their way into fields. Those are all remarkable stories of women vs. men, but if you ask me, the most impressive story involves Michelle Wie. Before unraveling at the hands of her pushy parents and marketing reps, Wie nearly made the cut at the 2004 Sony Open on the PGA Tour. She shot an even-par 140. She finished ahead of nearly 70 male professionals and missed the cut by just one stroke. She was 14 years old. That beats the hell out of anything Patrick did this weekend, or next weekend, or any weekend, on the IRL.

[psnolazy]

I hope the reformation of one American open wheel series can bounce back from the damage that the original split caused.

[Go4Broke]

Quote »

The IRL is the junior varsity of racing, is what I'm saying.

Hmmm.... What were Robby Gordon's and Tony Stewart's best finishes in the Indy 500, again? (Hint, with 14 starts between them, neither of these "Varsity" NASCAR drivers ever even made it to the bottom step on the podium in Victory Lane.)

The fact is, the IRL is a very competitive series this year, with Helio Castroneves, Marco Andretti, Graham Rahal, Danica Patrick, and a lot of other hungry, aggressive drivers who know far more about what competition is than some schmuck named "Doyel" who doesn't know his goatee from his latte.

Oh, and unlike NASCAR, IRL doesn't have a "lucky dog" rule (WTF is that all about?) or week-in-week-out "debris yellows" to artificially bring the field closer together and try to make the races interesting. The IRL drivers have to do that on their own.

/rant.

Now, how do we go about making ALMS more popular? Because I'd rather watch that over F1 or NASCAR any day of the week!

[venom600]

While I agree that the IRL is a middling league at best, this article reeks of arrogance and ignorance that can only be displayed by the most woefully ignorant of motorsports. This guy is a moron and a stain on his profession.

[4MoPassat]

IRL=Honda Racing League.

[geofftii2002]

Gregg Doyel- you're officially a raving a-whole. Go back to covering baseball games.

[330R]

Quote, originally posted by 4MoPassat »

IRL=Honda Racing League.

I agree if what you mean is spec engine series ..However, it's not Honda's fault that Toyota and Chevrolet pulled out because they were getting their butts handed to them and didn't want to invest in development. Honda wants competition.

[Zanardi.]

Quote, originally posted by Go4Broke »

Now, how do we go about making ALMS more popular? Because I'd rather watch that over F1 or NASCAR any day of the week!

What this guy says!

[Bah Humbug]

I also love the implication that F1 is lower than NASCAR.

[Apollo-Soyuz 1975]

Quote, originally posted by 4MoPassat »

IRL=Honda Racing League.

It's not by choice. Infiniti went down to the Indy Pro Series (now re-named as a new Indy Lights series) and Chevy & Toyota became un-competitive and elected to stop their IRL programs as they felt the return-on-investment was too low. Honda is basically stuck in a situation where it is partially subsidizing the League's existence.

[atomicalex]

As an on-again, off-again auto journalist, I think of track days as an opportunity to prove to myself that any kind of performance driving is damn hard and should be respected.

This yahoo needs to get in an IRL car for a few laps at speed and then tell me why IRL doesn't count. To my face. In fact, I volunteer to race him. Then he can tell me why girls are no good.

[gti_jeremy]

How is driving in a big circle so much above IRL? NASCAR? Come on.

[AutoEuphoria]

This guy doesn't seem to possess a clue.

NASCAR, IRL, F1, ALMS...they're all DIFFERENT. It's no surprise that a driver that is decent in one form of racing may not immediately be decent in another. If you need a good example, just look at Juan Pablo Montoya...he performed well in Formula 1, but has had a mediochre NASCAR career so far. Does that mean F1 is less than NASCAR? No, it just means it's different.

[Go4Broke]

Quote, originally posted by 4MoPassat »

IRL=Honda Racing League.

While you are correct, and I will note that I just can't STAND Honda, I should point out that last year, for the first time in my memory at least (and I've had tickets to the Indy 500 every year for SEVERAL years, since I only live 20 minutes from the track), there were NO cars out of the race due to engine failures. For whatever reason, the Honda engines work. (Did I mention that I can't STAND Honda?? )

[alleghenyman]

Quote, originally posted by Ignorant Scribe »

Winning in the IRL isn't a matter of talent. It's a matter of time. Race 50 times, as Patrick has done in the IRL, and you're bound to win eventually, especially when you have the best car and support team money can buy, as Patrick does.

If anyone thinks that the winning NASCAR drivers could win in anything, and the quality of their teams has nothing to do with their success, they know nothing about racing.

[SSLByron]

Quote, originally posted by atomicalex »

As an on-again, off-again auto journalist, I think of track days as an opportunity to prove to myself that any kind of performance driving is damn hard and should be respected. This yahoo needs to get in an IRL car for a few laps at speed and then tell me why IRL doesn't count. To my face. In fact, I volunteer to race him. Then he can tell me why girls are no good.

Easy there. We'll have to start calling you Jackie.

[bubba_sideways]

Quote, originally posted by atomicalex »

As an on-again, off-again auto journalist, I think of track days as an opportunity to prove to myself that any kind of performance driving is damn hard and should be respected. This yahoo needs to get in an IRL car for a few laps at speed and then tell me why IRL doesn't count. To my face. In fact, I volunteer to race him. Then he can tell me why girls are no good.

You're absolutely right. The Doyel guy is an utter doosh and can't drive his way out of a paper bag.

[geofftii2002]

And another thing- what would this guy say to a male driver posing in a magazine sans shirt, or using his particular attractiveness in a way that is appealing to the opposite sex in an advertisement?

Double-standard anyone? Jerkoff.

[mgyip]

Quote, originally posted by Go4Broke »

Now, how do we go about making ALMS more popular? Because I'd rather watch that over F1 or NASCAR any day of the week!

Turn it into a Soap Opera just like F1 or NASTYCAR. Given the popularity of the IQ-diminishing Reality TV shows, why not create "Lives of the ALMS stars". Of course there would still have to be "TV time outs" and the Lucky Dog rule would still have to exist (we once were the "Lucky Dog" twice in once race!!!) in order to make the program acceptable to American viewing public or else it would look too much like a game of chance and not a scripted TV program that's sold as "reality".

[WhatBlueVW]

Gee... I, myself, am also unhappy that one of the first person to win something somesuch did not do it while absolutely dominating the field for an entire era while the sport itself was the absolute achme of all sports that ever existed.

...I, like Doyel, also remember such humiliating patronization... such as when Ms. Girhommelen gave that Chinese boy the blue ribbon for the number of books he read in 5th grade. Even though he read half what all the other blue ribbon winners read, just because English was new to him. I think it is entirely relevant and shows how pathetic this win was! Chen didn't deserve it and so neither does Patrick!

[Lawl Master]

I'd like to thank Gregg Doyel for giving an accurate portrayal of Danica. I cannot stand Danica and all the press she gets because she's "special", the way its advertised, she wins one race and oh no!!!! Shumacher, Nascar, and NATO better watch out!!! Here comes Danica in all her crappy glory.

[AutoEuphoria]

I'd have to agree on that point...everything I've seen points to her being like a spoiled little kid when things don't go her way.

As for his comments on IRL in general

[geofftii2002]

Quote, originally posted by AutoEuphoria »

I'd have to agree on that point...everything I've seen points to her being like a spoiled little kid when things don't go her way. As for his comments on IRL in general

She's not the only racing driver who behaves like a baby when things don't go to plan. It happens all the time- it's quite often the nature of the beast.

[kaputsport]

I cannot stand NASCAR in general. I know they can drive, and drive well. They have good temas, blah, blah, blah, but to bash F1????

Typical american BS. Plain and simple. If he was from Italy, he would already be crucified...

What an ass..

[DenCo]

Quote, originally posted by geofftii2002 »

And another thing- what would this guy say to a male driver posing in a magazine sans shirt, or using his particular attractiveness in a way that is appealing to the opposite sex in an advertisement? Double-standard anyone? Jerkoff.

Umm... Has it happened? Has the guy commented on it? Not that I'm aware of, in either case.

You're making accusations based on what you think of the guy, based on this one article. The guy never even mentioned that, unless I missed that part. He did speak of stupid marketing choices and in the cases he mentions, I'd have to agree... Though, most of his issues with her seem to be that she's a very much middle of the pack performing racer being treated like a champion, and that's something I've always been irked by, too.

[vdubjb]

I was sigged a few years ago for saying , "2nd tier drivers crashing into each other in exotic locales such as Kansas.."

[PsyberVW]

I've had similar complaints in local sanctioning bodies as well though. For instance, some SCCA chapters recognize -L classes. The "-L" at the end of the class means: Ladies.

Why shouldn't their results be put up against the men's? Why patronize them with a seperate class, with an "assumed" lower bar, just so they can get trophies too?

One of the things which I learned early in martial arts, and which has applied to every sport / career / profession I can think of - is that you only get better when you practice/compete/work with the BEST.

Even if you personally never beat your "mentor" or better teammates, you will yourself be pushing to be better than what you are, and will most often come out "better" than people outside your circle who haven't had the same chance to work with the BEST.

It's a combination of psychological osmosis and experience. You learn tricks, efficiencies, best practices, strategies - results.

When you pull the ladies out of "regular competition", you're essentially pushing them into a vacuum where their skills will never improve beyond that of the others within the same vacuum.

[atomicalex]

Yes, guys posing shirtless has definitely happened. Witness the grid/pit guys thread.

I can count on one hand the female racers who have made any inroads at the top levels of racing. IRL is a top level, maybe not the tip top, but still very advanced. When you look at the physicality that is required of drivers and compare a 110 pound female to a 110 pound male, you've got a distinct disadvantage on the part of the girl. Tell me how you equal that out in racing leagues?

Any way you look at it, she's doing pretty decent, and if being a girl makes her more newsworthy than an equally skilled guy, sucks to be a guy, hmmm?


Modified by atomicalex at 11:51 AM 4-25-2008

[BltByKrmn]

Did only 1/2 of you actually read this article?

What exactly is he saying that is far from the truth?

Danica is a baby and is a marketing tool? Check.

Women should be held to the same standards if they want to be taken seriously? Check.

IRL is not anywhere near F1 or even NASCAR for that matter? Check.

[WhatBlueVW]

Quote, originally posted by PsyberVW »

I've had similar complaints in local sanctioning bodies as well though. For instance, some SCCA chapters recognize -L classes. The "-L" at the end of the class means: Ladies.

All well and good, but the class was put in place at the specific request of the ladies, and has encouraged ladies to participate in the events.

Mainly because many women were uncomfortable competing in a male dominated event. They wanted to know how they compare with other competing women. Also, in SCCA overall standings still apply for women.

A woman with number 1 standing will be in #1 standing in both the overall and the "-L" class (not just the "-L" class by itself).

[DenCo]

Quote, originally posted by atomicalex »

Any way you look at it, she's doing pretty decent, and if being a girl makes her more newsworthy than an equally skilled guy, sucks to be a guy, hmmm?

Decent? Yes. Worthy of all the hype? Hell no.

As far as that last part: Preferential treatment of males is sexism, but preferential treatment of females is "haha! guys suck!"? Uh-huh... Double standards and hypocrisy much? Though, I'm not surprised in this uber-PC "I'm more equal than you" world we're in today.

[jackwrx]

He forgot to mention that in NASCAR you must have friends on the track and in the booth to get to the front as well. The new guys coming in don't have that. I don't know if IRL is the same way, but I swear NASCAR is closer to the way things are run in wrestling (WWE) than a true sport.

[AKADriver]

Quote, originally posted by BltByKrmn »

Did only 1/2 of you actually read this article? What exactly is he saying that is far from the truth? Danica is a baby and is a marketing tool? Check. Women should be held to the same standards if they want to be taken seriously? Check. IRL is not anywhere near F1 or even NASCAR for that matter? Check.

Marketing tool, maybe, though I still refute your assertion that a "professional" driver can't show emotion upon winning a race, particularly their first win in a pro series.

She was held to the same standard. It's not like they gave her a faster car or didn't qualify any of the other competitive IRL drivers. No one's saying she's the best driver in the world, just that she won an IRL race. She's far from the first successful woman in professional motorsports, even.

IRL is not near F1 or NASCAR in popularity, but it's still considered to be the top echelon of open wheel racing in the US. If you can make the switch to NASCAR, even though it's a totally different ball game, great. If you can move up to F1, great. But IRL is still a pro series.

[BltByKrmn]

Quote, originally posted by AKADriver »

Marketing tool, maybe, though I still refute your assertion that a "professional" driver can't show emotion upon winning a race, particularly their first win in a pro series. She was held to the same standard. It's not like they gave her a faster car or didn't qualify any of the other competitive IRL drivers. No one's saying she's the best driver in the world, just that she won an IRL race. She's far from the first successful woman in professional motorsports, even. IRL is not near F1 or NASCAR in popularity, but it's still considered to be the top echelon of open wheel racing in the US. If you can make the switch to NASCAR, even though it's a totally different ball game, great. If you can move up to F1, great. But IRL is still a pro series.

I'm not arguing with any of that, nor do I think the original article is either.

[AKADriver]

The original article seems to really just be using Danica as an excuse to bash IRL and leg-hump NASCAR.

It's funny that he gives so much praise to Michelle Wie, when she pretty much gets the same sort of negative attention amongst the golf community. She's a very good female golfer, but when playing against men she's only been allowed into tournaments under sponsors' exemptions (where the sponsor can invite a certain number of players who didn't make the cut otherwise, because they're big names who will increase revenue). She's also been bashed by the golf press for "inappropriate clothing" though none of it is particularly sexy and it's all stuff you can get from the Nike catalog.


Modified by AKADriver at 12:18 PM 4-25-2008