Does the car select reverse with no problems and zero noise during selection?Broke
#1
I have a 2.0 jetta with an 020 trans in it.and it has a slight grind when shifting into 2nd.
(grinds when shifting 1st to 2nd but not when shifting 3rd to 2nd)???
Once it warms up a few miles down the road, the grind stops...
so what im asking is: could a different gear oil fix this grind? (by possibly warming up faster??)
#2
Does the car select reverse with no problems and zero noise during selection?Broke
#3
Yes it selects reverse fine,the 1st gear syncro is totally gone, and grind unless you stop.
but 2nd only has a SLIGHT grind, and only when its cold.
1st isnt much of a problem because i can always stop, and then shift. (such as at a light) but 2nd is a problem because i dont really have the option of stopping ha ha
so im just hoping that i can get a different gear oil, that could provide the same lubricating properties, but can warm up much faster.
(i belive i have talked to you once before about this Broke)
Modified by Michael Cahill at 10:08 PM 5-11-2008
Modified by Michael Cahill at 10:09 PM 5-11-2008
#4
Quote, originally posted by Michael Cahill » Yes it selects reverse fine Good, the clutch is fully disengaging, and the forward syncs aren't trying to fight the clutch
Quote, originally posted by Michael Cahill » so im just hoping that i can get a different gear oil, that could provide the same lubricating properties, but can warm up much faster. A different oil won't hurt to try at all. Stay with GL4 rated oil, and in the 75-90 weight range, but experiment with various oils, to see what might work best in your trans, as each trans seems to be a little different.
It might be that there is simply too much worn material missing for any oil to bring back 2nd gear fully for you, and the box would need opened and parts replaced to get it to shift properly again, but it doesn't hurt to try other oil, and you might get a few more miles out of 2nd gear.
Grinding is bad, and is wearing the actual gear, which would be more expensive to replace than just a worn 2nd gear sync ring, so if 2nd grinds too often, there will be damage to the actual gear, which is something to keep in mind.
Quote, originally posted by Michael Cahill » (i belive i have talked to you once before about this Broke) Very possibly, my memory is shot
I get user names and real people names mixed up, although in your case, they appear to be the same, but yeah, my memory is gone
Broke
#5
ok ill try a differnt oil first then
now ive heard a lot about GM syncromesh... is that worth the try, or is any oil just as good as the next?
I would'nt so much call it a grind into 2nd, as much as i would call it a rough shift... you can slightly feel it in the shifter, and you can hear is slightly.
(obviously the sync is starting to ware out... but is there something else that could be causing this as well??)now once it warms up... and the "grinding" goes away... is it still doing it even tho all the audiable signs have gone away?
ps. i have been skipping 2nd and going stright to 3rd whenever i can in the first few miles! It works pretty well because i live a ways out of the city... so i dont have to stop much!
Thanks for the answers!!
Michael
Modified by Michael Cahill at 4:41 PM 5-12-2008
#6
Quote, originally posted by Michael Cahill » now ive heard a lot about GM syncromesh... is that worth the try, or is any oil just as good as then next? It is worth a try, lots of people have good luck with it.
Quote, originally posted by Michael Cahill » now once it warms up... and the "grinding" goes away... is it still doing it even tho all the audiable signs have gone away? Once everything warms up, the friction coefficient changes and it usually shifts better.
Broke
#7
ok well i'll go give er a try thenMichael
#8
I am having the same problem on my 2001, it has a nice grind from first to second. I guess I will try the gm synromesh.
#9
I just put in redline 75-90 wt...
(i went to the dealer to get the syncromesh, but they were closed, and another shop down the steet had this stuff for 9 bucks a QT, so i thought what the heck...it did'nt do a thing!
its the same as it was before...
It may work for your tranny (ive heard it worked for some people)
but im gunna go pick up some syncromesh!
which ive heard, has done wonders for a bunch of people!so i'll let ya know how it goes!
Modified by Michael Cahill at 9:23 PM 5-19-2008
#10
i just put a new clutch in my 04 GTI and now i have grinding in 2nd gear when taking off hard could that be an adjustment to the linkage
#11
I've had this problem since day one of my car... I know years ago it was a common topic and just dismissed as a quirk of the car. My 2000 VR6 has 225,000 miles on the original clutch and it's had the 1st to 2nd gear "grind" ever since I drove the car off the lot brand new. It only happens on rare occasions, mainly during a speed shift or high-rpm shifting. Like you said, it's more of a rough shift than a true "grinding" of gears, but it doesn't sound pleasant either way.I say as long as it doesn't do it every shift and only maybe once out of every 50 to 100 1st to 2nd gear shifts, I wouldn't worry about it.
Like I said, 225,000 miles on mine and the tranny is just fine. (as is the rest of the car... great considering how much I beat it).
#12
Quote, originally posted by Jetta2K76 » My 2000 VR6 has 225,000 miles on the original clutch DAMN
well an update on the syncromesh:
I filled up my tranny with it.. and from the literatly the FIRST SHIFT on, it only grinds if i speed shift. its almost compleatly better! (with the exception of a day when it was like 30 deg outside)and first gear, which i thought the sycro was compleatly gone, is much better. it still grinds if im going faster than 15 mph however.
but hey... it would grind if i was even moving before!
to Syncromesh!!
Modified by Michael Cahill at 4:38 PM 7-17-2008
#13
I had some issues in 3rd gear. I couldn't rev past 3k with out getting a nasty grind. I Bought some royal purple which meets gl4 and gl5 75-90 and I have 125,000k miles on the 20th. It took away 99% of the grind. If I beat it really hard liike probably 7K redline I might get a slight grind which is super rare. Other then that I am happy with royal purple
Modified by uNk1nd.8t at 10:19 PM 7-17-2008
#14
just beware, make sure whatever you get is a GL 4 or below.
because apparently GL 5 and higher has some sort of additive that actually eats away your sync rings...just do a search on it and you'l find a ton of info on the whole topic.
#15
i have the same grind when i shift in to second. i found that if i hold the clutch in a second longer and shift fairly slow i have no grind.i am going to try the Syncromesh first thing tomorrow.
#16
the thing i noticed works well is:
If you shift slow, spend as much time in nutrual as possible.ex: shifting from 2nd to 3rd... as soon as you hit the clutch, put it in nutrual, hang for a sec.. and put it in gear.
and if that doesn't fix your grinding, try doubble clutching.
just do a search, and you can find info.
#17
I have the same problem (grinding into 2nd when shifter faster) in my vr6. First i'll try gm's syncromesh
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#18
Quote, originally posted by Michael Cahill » the thing i noticed works well is:
If you shift slow, spend as much time in nutrual as possible.ex: shifting from 2nd to 3rd... as soon as you hit the clutch, put it in nutrual, hang for a sec.. and put it in gear.
To make it select a little faster, do the same thing you describe above, but during that pause time in between gears, hold the shifter so you are slightly pulling it into the next gear.
In your example, you'd pull it out of 2nd to go to 3rd, and while waiting between gears with your foot depressing the clutch pedal, instead of letting the shifter in the car just sit there without being touched, push and hold the shifter slightly up towards 3rd gear, without actually selecting it.
This will cause the sliding sleeve in the trans for 3rd gear to begin pressing against the brass sync ring and shoving it into the gear, and the friction process will start.
Friction is what is missing out of everyone's trans that has shifting issues... a lack of friction results in needing more time to allow the shafts to spin up or slow down in order to match speeds so the shift can occur.
Changing the oil is changing the friction, and changing the shift. What might be wonderful for some (Redline) might not work in this box (Syncromesh) and this other trans may do best with a 3rd type of oil (Royal Purple), but it is the friction that changes, which changes how the shift happens.
Anyway, holding the shifter towards the next gear you want will push the brass ring against the gear, and friction will start and the gear will either speed up or slow down until it is going the same speed as the brass sync ring. Once the gear has changed speeds due to the friction of the ring, you can select it without any noise.
This is why a nice slow shift at low RPMs won't grind... the low RPM shift point means the "work" needed doing by the brass sync ring is less. It doesn't have to speed up or slow down the next gear as much as when you try to grab that gear at 6500 RPM or something
The slow selection by the driver gives the clutch more time to disengage the input shaft (so it can be sped up or slowed down as needed - thus why a bad clutch will make for poor shifting) and it gives the brass sync ring more time to generate the needed friction to change the speed of the input shaft, which is free to move because of the clutch operating properly.I need to link this thread from my Oil Change page to show how various brands of oil can work differently in each trans based on how the trans is worn, how much it is worn, how the driver shifts it, where it is geographically as temps affect the oil, etc... oil can help with a grind, and if one oil doesn't, another might.
In the end though, no oil will replace missing metal, and if the sync ring is worn away and no longer causing the friction we need, then oil can help put a band-aid on the problem for a period of time, but nothing replaces worn metal other than a new part.
#19
I changed the trans fluid on my R32 to redline MT90 and it made it shift substantially better. I am going to try it in my '97 Golf 2.slow and see what it does.It has the 2nd gear grind if not shifting slow...but I guess that is to be expected after 165k. I've got to drop the trans anyway to do a clutch job so..
Originally Posted by grammaticus
#20
Called the local GM dealer they want $25 per quartI heard Pennzoil syncromesh is almost identical; anyone have any info on this? Hows the red line stuff?
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#21
question did you do the clutch on your 97 and change fluid....any change in grinding into 2nd gear
your phonetically challenge..
#22
i have the same problem to my mk4 tdi 6 speed gearbox but it only makes noise in the morning when the car is still cold, it makes the noise when i put it to the second gear after 5 minutes driving the second gear is normal ,i changed the gearbox oil i replaced it with fuchs 75W90 but it still has the same noise when i put it to the second gear, my mechanic told me to change SYNCROS or the whole gearbox, i found a used gearbox for 500 euros i dont know if its better to replace the SYNCROS or to buy the used gearbox.
#23
My 03 mk.4 Golf 2.0L started to grinding noise when doing fast upshift from 1st to 2nd.
Now it has 232000 miles - noise is still there.
Just slow down your gear changes.....save money for something else..
#24
ok but can you brake the syncros driving like that, my car does it only when its cold, and does anyone how much are the new syncros for the second gear
Last edited by daniell; 05-21-2010 at 04:49 AM.
#25
Well, I have no idea how much synchros will cost. I'm sure if you'll buy them from a dealer - it won't be cheap. I've never done transmission work myself and would rather opt for a swap....
But that's just me...
As I said before, I first noticed that at about 50k miles. After putting another 150k+ and teaching my daughter how to drive stick (it is her car now ) grinding is still present when trying to quick shift from 1st to 2nd. Car has original clutch thou with 233000 miles - maybe new one will help....but I doubt it.
#26
This is a great thread. Our 93 VR6 Corrado has had the crunch when shifting fast from 1-2 with the revs up since it was new. With 165 k miles it is still the same. We have run different synthetic fluids with no change. The pause as you move the shifter into 2nd that Broke suggests is the thing that helps when shifting fast at high RPM. I am currently using Redline MT90 as all other shifting feels smoother.
I have switched a number of cars over to synthetics and sometimes had similar issues, I believe due to the syncros and gears not slowing down quickly enough. In some cases I have mixed half normal GL4 and half synthetic with some improvement to the crunch. Normal GL4 is a little hard to find and NAPA is the most consistent place I have found it.
#27
I have an mk4 grinding when i speed shift into third. I'm not even releasing the clutch. wanted to know if others experienced the grind before actually releasing the clutch?
#29
changing the oil didn't work for me.... wasn't really looking to replace the tran yet
#30
I just changed my (manual transmission) gear oil to ACDelco Syncromesh - part #89021808. Same stuff as GM Synchromesh friction modified.
It has completely transformed the transmission and how the car drives and feels.
I previously had Lubromoly 75W90 put in by a VW shop that highly recommended it.
Anyhow, I started getting 1st - 2nd grinds about 6 months in.
I started reading around, and realized Lubromoly is a full synthetic GL5 not a GL4 (face palm). Anyhow, it's too slippery apparently, and doesn't allow enough friction for the synchros to grab.
Not a hard DIY job at all, and you can undo the plugs with a spare (17mm) lug nut rather than buying anything other than this beautiful dark golden miracle fluid.
#31
I'm going to have to try it, the oil that i had put in two weeks ago made no improvement. I'm having the vw dealership scan the car. a hundred bucks for the full scan. I'll post what they say and what they would charge to fix it.
#32
Scan the car as in fault code? ..
The syncrho is worn, if it's only grinding on fast engagements, advice is don't change gear fast.
Funny thing is that we all, buy old cars expecting them to perform like new, and yet we moan when they don't
It is annoying when you get gearbox problems because they arnt cheap things to repair, and it gets expensive when you can't take the box out yourself and you have to pay a garage to do it, labour + parts + vat (tax) = expensive headache
Flaming vat is 17.5% here in the uk and will be 20% from 1st of jan 2011
Extra 2.5 pence per pound you spend
#33
yeah but you guys have top gear...that makes up for it all!
#34
Update on the Synchromesh.... This stuff is effing incredible. The shifting doesn't get any smoother, it's like liquid butter, and zero gear grinding even if I wail on it in first and slam it in to second.
Unbelievable changing the fluid could make such a dramatic difference.
#35
So where is everyone getting their synchromesh? Will Autozone or Advanced carry it? VW dealer? Special order?
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