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    Thread: The all carb diet.

    1. Member B4S's Avatar
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      06-22-2008 05:31 PM #1
      And if you don't like 'em...try to keep the hate posts to a minimum, ok? . It'd be nice to see who is running what.

      Here's my collection:
      The Dellorto DHLA 40Hs (emissions-based carb) currently on my car (under construction)

      Some Mikuni 40PHHs I just picked up...in case the Dells are a bit too much extra work to tune around the 'emissions' mods they have.

      I've also got a nice downdraft manifold from a Canadian-spec MkIII Golf CL (it runs a TBI setup, on the carb manifold) that I'm tempted to play with one day. A nice little progressive Weber...mmm.


    2. Member v-dubin@120's Avatar
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      1991 all-motor 16v gti drag car, 1997 F250HD 7.3L powerstroke, 99.5 2.0 Golf, 2001 7.3L Excursion
      06-23-2008 02:28 AM #2
      Here's my set-up. DCOE45's on a custom manifold. this was fun, but im going to be changing it up with some 48's and a shorter manifold.

      only problems i had with this set-up was i had to pop-up the back of the hood to clear the carbs, and the trumpets were too close to the raintray to run filters. good thing it was in a racecar.


    3. Member B4S's Avatar
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      06-23-2008 06:35 AM #3
      I've always liked the look of that setup

    4. Member Jettaboy1884's Avatar
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      06-23-2008 11:15 PM #4
      That's a pretty kickass setup on the 16v!

      Did you have any problems with the carbs being somewhat far away from the head, and/or the fact that the air fuel mix has to make a near 180 degree turn?


    5. Member B4S's Avatar
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      06-24-2008 12:20 PM #5
      If anything, I'm guessing that the atomization of the fuel would be pretty thorough. As long as it didn't end up pooling anywhere, I bet it ran really well. The aircooled guys sometimes end up using long manifolds like that, in a single carb setup.

    6. 06-24-2008 01:25 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by B4S »
      I've always liked the look of that setup

      X2


    7. Member B4S's Avatar
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      06-29-2008 08:01 PM #7
      Spent the afternoon under the car, getting filty (I really need to paint the garage floor) and installing the exhaust. Got a nice little vid after I set the idle speed and did a basic sync on the carbs while I wait for my balancer to arrive. I am in LOVE with the sound of these carbs...it's awesome!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRftT_aAkpI


    8. Member Jettaboy1884's Avatar
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      06-29-2008 08:13 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by B4S »
      ... I am in LOVE with the sound of these carbs...it's awesome!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRftT_aAkpI

      Agreed! Sounds good. Now go out and do a few WOT pulls - In car, and outside.


    9. Member B4S's Avatar
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      06-29-2008 10:05 PM #9
      Still pretty far off from that I'm afraid .
      Incomplete brake lines, no axles, windshield, fenders, doors, interior, etc

    10. Member FATGUYINALITTLEDUB's Avatar
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      07-01-2008 11:43 PM #10
      weber 45's 2L bored to a 2.1L and a list of internal goodies to long to post...





      Modified by FATGUYINALITTLEDUB at 11:12 AM 7-2-2008


    11. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-03-2008 09:07 AM #11
      I've been having 'teething pains' with my Dells, the car has been a HUGE pain to start up. All those problems are solved now, and it turns out the issue is a carb-ignorant owner .

      Here's what I've learned:
      - when running without a manual choke cable, the 'pump-pump-crank' method of starting the car requires MORE than 1/8" throttle while cranking. I've never had to push the gas when starting a car, who knew.

      - if there is a manual choke available, USE IT. This is apparently not recommended for Webers DCOEs due to it being too crude, but my Dellortos LOVE it. Pull cable, turn key, VROOM! No pedal required. The 2000 rpm idle is fun too .

      - if there is an obvious leak (say, at the acc pump jet covers that keeps the diaphragm from priming the system), FIX THEM IMMEDIATELY. They work MUCH better with new gaskets (ghetto O-rings from a local auto parts store) keeping the gas in.

      I gotta tell ya, after being a die-hard EFI/Standalone guy for 10 years, these things are really showing me what I don't know about cars, and I like it. Very eye-opening, and I haven't even gotten to the road tuning yet. The appeal of never having to have a laptop in the car is .


      Modified by B4S at 9:09 AM 7-3-2008


    12. 07-03-2008 02:06 PM #12
      WEAK. I'll post some picks of my 8 sets when i get home.


      ...carbs are for men.


    13. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-03-2008 02:58 PM #13
      Hey, I've only just started collecting .

      I've got a set of H4 SUs in the basement though, considering giving them a try after the Dells .


    14. 07-04-2008 05:44 AM #14
      Quote, originally posted by B4S »
      Hey, I've only just started collecting .

      here is a hint,

      Buy EVERY Italian DCOE core you can find, Udig?

      Considering most of us are running the Spanish stuff.


    15. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-04-2008 06:27 AM #15
      Noted .
      Almost had a carb-removing-and-going-back-to-EFI moment last night when the throttle linkage on the leftmost carb that connects to the balance screw mechanism fell off. My motivation to remove the carb and repair it was low, but I got it done. The last thing I did before bed was fire the car up just to hear the sound.

      Tomorrow I start re-balancing the carbs.


    16. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-04-2008 09:33 PM #16
      The final result, mixture set and carbs balanced .
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lep0bwRXPRI


    17. 07-05-2008 04:39 PM #18
      ^^^^^^^^^^

      NO mounts?

      Straight metal on metal??

      Luv IT!!!!

      Makin' it happen, Udig?


    18. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-07-2008 03:17 PM #19
      I'm tempted to use the plastic spacers/O-ring setup I have, my MISAB gaskets and rubber isolators seem to let air leak out slightly. On a lean pop (prior to the current tune) I could see it from between the manifold and carbs. I tightened it up a bit, and so far so good...but realistically, how bad is the aerating if it's metal to metal?

    19. 07-07-2008 05:40 PM #20
      I don't have any problems, but It's a 1/4 mile car. I couldn't get the 2 orings and holder to seal correctly, always had leaks. Probably a bad quality one, but I would rather have them bolted solid with a paper gasket.

    20. 07-07-2008 09:28 PM #21
      Metal on metal is VERY doable, Udig?

      I just thought I was the only NUT who did it!

      As I said before .... makin' it happen


    21. 07-08-2008 06:21 AM #22
      Quote, originally posted by B4S »
      I'm tempted to use the plastic spacers/O-ring setup I have, my MISAB gaskets and rubber isolators seem to let air leak out slightly. On a lean pop (prior to the current tune) I could see it from between the manifold and carbs. I tightened it up a bit, and so far so good...but realistically, how bad is the aerating if it's metal to metal?

      Make cardboard gaskets.

      Rubber and heat doesn't mix well, Udig? Add gas and things really get nutted up quick.

      More leaks than a recycled geriatric diaper


      Modified by the12for12 at 6:32 AM 7-8-2008


    22. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-11-2008 10:25 PM #23
      Drove the car under it's own power tonight, for 10' .

      Holy hell it's loud...and I'm running a 1.5" exhaust.

      All carb growl baby!


    23. 07-11-2008 10:39 PM #24
      The reason you are lean popping is most likey those leaks. Take a propane torch, turn the gas on low, and wave it around the carb to manifold area. Listen for idle changes.

      The plastic spacers break if you overtighten them, and leak/suck in the oring if they are under torqued. No win situation for me at least.


    24. 07-14-2008 01:58 PM #25
      well, actually, no. I don't dig. I read in both the Braden and the Passini weber books the importance of the soft mount. Found on Bradens book page 126:
      "First, a warning: Sidedraft Webers such as the DCO series are very sensitive to vibration such as found on four cylinder engines. Severe engine vibrations cause fuel to foam in the float bowl, which adversely affects the float level and mixture strength. For this reason, always use a rubber spacer between the carb and the intake manifold to isolate the float bowl. "

      I don't know, maybe I just don"t have the right shovel or something.......


    25. 07-14-2008 03:41 PM #26
      O-rings are junk. solid mounting approved by me, too.

    26. 07-14-2008 07:41 PM #27
      wow. such verbiage.
      I am not trying to be a PITA nor do I want to hijack any threads, but I have a vested interest in the final outcome of this discussion. I was under the influence that the spacer also acts as a heat dispersion barrier between the carbs and the intake manifold. As you can see. I would certainly like to avoid having to pull the carbs again after i drop this head in. Does anyone run the spacers and NOT have a problem with them?

    27. Member v-dubin@120's Avatar
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      07-15-2008 05:46 AM #28
      I run them. haven't had any problems yet, but you need to tightent hem very slowly and evenly or they may leak. takes some time but i would rather run the o-rings and spacers other then a paper gasket.

    28. Member Rubberband's Avatar
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      07-15-2008 09:45 AM #29
      I run the spacers too. Never had a problem with orings falling out or cracking the plastic inserts either. I really doubt the flanges on the carbs/manifold are really all that flat and parallel so I never ran them with just a paper gasket. It has to be easier to get these mounted up when they are on the front of the motor like my 16v. Id imaging it would be a PITA on an 8valve. I use a little petroleum grease to coat the orings to keep them from falling out when installing them on the manifold. Works to keep the orings in the oring gland.
      Liquor in the front Poker in the rear - Reverand Horton Heat

    29. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-15-2008 12:10 PM #30
      Lots of good info in here, definitely .

      I've managed to get the MISAB gaskets/softmounts to work, I just had to tighten the rubber isolators/nuts down a bit more than I read I should. There is still some movement in the carb bodies, but not enough to do anything to their balance or create leaks, like I must have been getting before. Once the car is assembled a bit further, I'm going to spray brake cleaner on the mounting surfaces and see what happens. If it leaks...well...anybody want to buy a proven, working carb setup?


    30. 07-15-2008 06:27 PM #31
      ya. i noticed that i felt a little better tightening the carbs more as well. there is some specific clearance that the thackery washers are supposed to have but i couldn't measure it. flat blade feeler guages suck for this. you would need wire guages which i don't have. let us know how your shizz works out

    31. Member
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      07-15-2008 08:53 PM #32
      i have been through this. started off with a borg-warner style soft mount which is like the misab spacer ( metal spacer with o-rings ), using thackery washers ( spring washer ) to tighten.had problems with leaks. probably my own fault but at this point i went to the plastic mounts with thackery washers. you are supposed to tighten them until you have like .035" gap between the coils but because it was impossible to see the underside, what i did was tighten them all until they just got snug, not torqued, then backed them all out 3/4 of a turn. i have done this numerous times and have had no problems. some people swear by the cosworth style rubber bushing with cup washers and a locknut but as mentioned above- no problems with the plastic softmounts and thackery washers

    32. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-15-2008 09:23 PM #33
      ARG.
      Still have leaks!
      I'm going to give snugging them down and backing off a bit a try, and if that doesn't work...I'm going to go back to use the spacers/O-rings I've got in the wings.

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      07-15-2008 10:32 PM #34
      take your time. its easy to get frustrated with what should be a simple deal. once they start to have a little tension on them from tightening, start tightening them like you would a cylinder head. go a 1/4 turn, then go to the next one. once they get snug to the point where you would actually have to force the wrench or socket wrench to go further ( and this is all by feel ) , then back them off 3/4 of a turn and you should be okay. if you have been fiddling around with this for awhile, get some new o-rings and start over. the thing with carbs is that you buy a new set and there is nothing with them. no float level instructions, adjustment info, nothing, and trying to find anything out from different sources can be frustrating. you should be close to having those going pretty soon. just take your time. good luck

    34. Member Rubberband's Avatar
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      07-15-2008 11:38 PM #35
      finger tight all the nuts then tighten in sequence like candm said. Those soft mounts also compensate for wavy, irregular surfaces.
      Liquor in the front Poker in the rear - Reverand Horton Heat

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