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    VWVortex


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    Thread: The all carb diet.

    1. 07-14-2008 03:41 PM #26
      O-rings are junk. solid mounting approved by me, too.

    2. 07-14-2008 07:41 PM #27
      wow. such verbiage.
      I am not trying to be a PITA nor do I want to hijack any threads, but I have a vested interest in the final outcome of this discussion. I was under the influence that the spacer also acts as a heat dispersion barrier between the carbs and the intake manifold. As you can see. I would certainly like to avoid having to pull the carbs again after i drop this head in. Does anyone run the spacers and NOT have a problem with them?

    3. Member v-dubin@120's Avatar
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      07-15-2008 05:46 AM #28
      I run them. haven't had any problems yet, but you need to tightent hem very slowly and evenly or they may leak. takes some time but i would rather run the o-rings and spacers other then a paper gasket.

    4. Member Rubberband's Avatar
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      07-15-2008 09:45 AM #29
      I run the spacers too. Never had a problem with orings falling out or cracking the plastic inserts either. I really doubt the flanges on the carbs/manifold are really all that flat and parallel so I never ran them with just a paper gasket. It has to be easier to get these mounted up when they are on the front of the motor like my 16v. Id imaging it would be a PITA on an 8valve. I use a little petroleum grease to coat the orings to keep them from falling out when installing them on the manifold. Works to keep the orings in the oring gland.
      Liquor in the front Poker in the rear - Reverand Horton Heat

    5. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-15-2008 12:10 PM #30
      Lots of good info in here, definitely .
      I've managed to get the MISAB gaskets/softmounts to work, I just had to tighten the rubber isolators/nuts down a bit more than I read I should. There is still some movement in the carb bodies, but not enough to do anything to their balance or create leaks, like I must have been getting before. Once the car is assembled a bit further, I'm going to spray brake cleaner on the mounting surfaces and see what happens. If it leaks...well...anybody want to buy a proven, working carb setup?
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

    6. 07-15-2008 06:27 PM #31
      ya. i noticed that i felt a little better tightening the carbs more as well. there is some specific clearance that the thackery washers are supposed to have but i couldn't measure it. flat blade feeler guages suck for this. you would need wire guages which i don't have. let us know how your shizz works out [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

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      79 rabbit
      07-15-2008 08:53 PM #32
      i have been through this. started off with a borg-warner style soft mount which is like the misab spacer ( metal spacer with o-rings ), using thackery washers ( spring washer ) to tighten.had problems with leaks. probably my own fault but at this point i went to the plastic mounts with thackery washers. you are supposed to tighten them until you have like .035" gap between the coils but because it was impossible to see the underside, what i did was tighten them all until they just got snug, not torqued, then backed them all out 3/4 of a turn. i have done this numerous times and have had no problems. some people swear by the cosworth style rubber bushing with cup washers and a locknut but as mentioned above- no problems with the plastic softmounts and thackery washers

    8. Member B4S's Avatar
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      2002 Forester S, 1987 GTI 16v
      07-15-2008 09:23 PM #33
      ARG.
      Still have leaks!
      I'm going to give snugging them down and backing off a bit a try, and if that doesn't work...I'm going to go back to use the spacers/O-rings I've got in the wings.
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

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      79 rabbit
      07-15-2008 10:32 PM #34
      take your time. its easy to get frustrated with what should be a simple deal. once they start to have a little tension on them from tightening, start tightening them like you would a cylinder head. go a 1/4 turn, then go to the next one. once they get snug to the point where you would actually have to force the wrench or socket wrench to go further ( and this is all by feel ) , then back them off 3/4 of a turn and you should be okay. if you have been fiddling around with this for awhile, get some new o-rings and start over. the thing with carbs is that you buy a new set and there is nothing with them. no float level instructions, adjustment info, nothing, and trying to find anything out from different sources can be frustrating. you should be close to having those going pretty soon. just take your time. good luck

    10. Member Rubberband's Avatar
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      07-15-2008 11:38 PM #35
      finger tight all the nuts then tighten in sequence like candm said. Those soft mounts also compensate for wavy, irregular surfaces.
      Liquor in the front Poker in the rear - Reverand Horton Heat

    11. Member speedtek40's Avatar
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      07-16-2008 04:28 AM #36
      I use the Misab gaskets and the rubber washers with the cups, I found they work far better than the crappy plastic spacers and thackery washers (which are absolute garbage). I just tighten the nuts until I have a fingernail width between the two cup washers....seems to be the easiest to tell for gap (you can feel it). It worked for me, no more massive leakage problem, although if you're using the nylock nuts, you'll probably have to use blue loctite (the removable stuff) to keep the nuts from backing off. I found that my studs weren't long enough to engage the nylon locking compound before the cups and washers were fully compressed.
      Oh yeah....and pics.
      Change is inevitable......progress is optional

    12. Member B4S's Avatar
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      2002 Forester S, 1987 GTI 16v
      07-16-2008 06:47 AM #37
      That's what I ended up doing last night. The gap (according to the Des Hammill book) is supposed to be 2mm or so IIRC, but that sucks. It tidied up most of my leaks, but since I've got emissions carbs, they've got idle bypass screws on each barrell, and two of them are leaky. I'll be fixing that today, and checking again.
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

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      79 rabbit
      07-16-2008 08:19 PM #38
      turn those bypass screws in until they seat, then tighten the locknut. you dont really need fiddle with them. get the carbs setup and balanced first, using the inner bores of each carb to balance with a flow meter. once those are dialed in, if you feel like it, then adjust your bypass screws to get all bores the same for a little bit smoother idle

    14. Member B4S's Avatar
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      2002 Forester S, 1987 GTI 16v
      07-16-2008 09:10 PM #39
      Idle air bypass screws completely seated, and the towers they're recessed into are now filled with silicone. Never using them again, and they could be a leak source IMO. I managed to get rid of the leak by going a bit extra tight on the two middle barrels, so I think the manifold isn't flat in that area. I've also got one idle screw that requires a full turn further out than the other three, confirmed by the colortune. I'm expecting another one in the mail soon, so I'll be able to run two at once to compare color of burn. Right now I've got the max rpm out of each cylinder, and turning any screw in more than a half turn results in an RPM drop, so I'm not worried. Once the butterflies open, then it's a non-issue. I have zero intake leaks now, so I'm not worried about a lean cylinder.
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

    15. 07-16-2008 09:43 PM #40
      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      success?

    16. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-16-2008 09:59 PM #41
      Pretty much, I'm a bit concerned with the one idle screw that is radically different, but at least the leak is gone. I'll pop the idle jet out and see if it's the same as the others. If it is, I'll just stop fussing and get to finishing the car .
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

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      79 rabbit
      07-17-2008 08:48 AM #42
      sometimes you will have the mixture screw of 1 bore in or out more than the others. if you are more than 31/2 turns or less than 11/2 turns then you should get a richer or leaner idle jet for that cylinder

    18. Member B4S's Avatar
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      2002 Forester S, 1987 GTI 16v
      07-17-2008 10:04 AM #43
      On three of the screws I believe I'm at 2.75 turns, and the fourth one I am around 3.5-3.75. As much as I try to convince myself there is no leak, and even though the empirical data (ie: liberal spray of brake cleaner) points to the same thing...I'm not convinced. I'm going to give it one last check tonight, I'll empty a can of brake cleaner if I have to.
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

    19. Member B4S's Avatar
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      2002 Forester S, 1987 GTI 16v
      07-17-2008 08:43 PM #44
      @#*&)(@#*$)(@*!_!_+$(%)*(*@)*_!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      I'm dumping those silly Misab gaskets and going to the cast aluminum spacers with O-rings I have. I still have massive leaks. This time I sprayed the brake cleaner right down between the manifold and carbs, along the misab edge, and the rpms dropped hardcore .
      If the spacers don't work...then I'm going solid. I'm on stock engine mounts with a stock cam...I doubt aeration will be an issue.
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

    20. 07-17-2008 11:14 PM #45
      maybe take the manifold to a machine shop and have them cut new surfaces on both sides. it can't hurt and it gives you a nice flat to work with. the carbs can be surfaced too, if your willing to take them apart totaly. you can do this in an afternoon as i'm sure you know by now........it only cost me $40 to have the manifold done. when you get the carbs off, check it with a straight edge. good luck and let us know how you do. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    21. Member the12for12's Avatar
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      07-18-2008 07:13 AM #46
      Quote, originally posted by VenaGTi »
      maybe take the manifold to a machine shop and have them cut new surfaces on both sides. it can't hurt and it gives you a nice flat to work with. the carbs can be surfaced too, if your willing to take them apart totaly. you can do this in an afternoon as i'm sure you know by now........it only cost me $40 to have the manifold done. when you get the carbs off, check it with a straight edge. good luck and let us know how you do. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    22. Member B4S's Avatar
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      2002 Forester S, 1987 GTI 16v
      07-18-2008 08:45 AM #47
      Quote, originally posted by VenaGTi »
      maybe take the manifold to a machine shop and have them cut new surfaces on both sides. it can't hurt and it gives you a nice flat to work with. the carbs can be surfaced too, if your willing to take them apart totaly. you can do this in an afternoon as i'm sure you know by now........it only cost me $40 to have the manifold done. when you get the carbs off, check it with a straight edge. good luck and let us know how you do. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      This will be what happens if the spacers fail on me too [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG].
      I was so wound up last night, that I ended up in the garage in my boxers last night, removing the carbs before I went to bed . 10 minutes and they were off the manifold...I love the simplicity of these things.
      I will not give up! [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

    23. Member vdub4life_89's Avatar
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      07-18-2008 02:09 PM #48
      here is mine


    24. Member B4S's Avatar
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      2002 Forester S, 1987 GTI 16v
      07-18-2008 02:49 PM #49
      Nice! Solexs'? My Mikunis look similar.
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

    25. Member B4S's Avatar
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      07-19-2008 11:40 AM #50
      Dumped the misab gaskets today, and went with the cast-aluminim O-ring holders. Going on a tip from an Alfa Romeo forum (alfabb.com), I put a bit of high temp grease on the O-rings before installing them in the holders. Also dumped the rubber isolators and cups, straight nut and washer. The leaks, I've discovered now that the manifold is off, is due to the over-porting of the manifold (from previous-previous owner). The misab gaskets overlap into the port, offering very little sealing surface. The O-ring holders eliminate that issue .
      Now...I need a new intake gasket, the new one I had on there was gas-soaked and crumbled away .
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

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