Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    VWVortex


    Results 1 to 17 of 17

    Thread: Camshaft position sensor in distributor

    1. Member jorge r's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2006
      Location
      Los Angeles, 5&110
      Posts
      2,068
      Vehicles
      vw
      07-20-2008 06:55 PM #1
      Hello, I'd like to draw a little atention to the camshaft position sensor trouble code. Is it that the sensor itself is a whimp and signal is soon lost, or is it a stretched timing belt, a timing problem. I think the sensor should be good for over 5 years, more like 10 years of life without it weakening or dying. I replaced my car's distributor a few years ago because of it and the problem is back. I look around here and search and it seems like a common problem with it going into trouble mode.
      The first step is to check the engine timing, the belt may have stretched, check.
      So, what if the sensor itself is a whimp? it's a permanent magnet and a coil of wire. The coil of wire senses the electromagnetic field of the permanent magner and a signal is produced when there is a change. Voltage is applied to the coil of wire and when there is a change in the magnetic field, the signal is produced.
      What can go wrong? Heat can demagnetize or weaken a permanent magnet, a cycling magnetic field (hertz), impact (shoking blows), a stronger magnetic field of the opposite polarity, all of these.
      With the magnetic field interruptor disk, the rotating metal part with the air gap or window partly in the sensor can become magnetized or loose its magnetic field altering capability.
      I would blame the heat weakening the magnet, the rotating plate with the air gap loosing its ability to alter the magnetic field, or the coil loosing its electrical characteristics and weakening the signal.

      As an experiment, with the timing belt checking o.k., I want to adjust the distributor to compensate any advance or retarding of the camshaft position signal. The spring pins must be removed from the distributor so the distributor can be rotated and adjusted accodgingly. If the trouble code goes away, the timing has a problem and the sensor circuit is o.k. And if the problem stays, the timing belt is o.k. and the problem is the sensor.


      Modified by jorge r at 3:57 PM 7-20-2008


    2. Member jorge r's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2006
      Location
      Los Angeles, 5&110
      Posts
      2,068
      Vehicles
      vw
      07-20-2008 09:10 PM #2
      Update:
      In atempt to adjust the camshaft position sensor timing, I removed the spring dowels that hold the distributor position fixed.
      During the process, I noticed the metal rotating top plate in the distributor is magnetized, I don't know if it being magnetic is normal but I will think not because it may contaminate a clean sensor signal. I'll think of a way to try demagnetize it.
      I still moved on to removing one of the dowels and here are some ilustrations, the distributor:

      The sensor under the metal rotating plate with an air gap window on it:

      The distributor base fastening point:

      The distributor base fastener removed with spring dowel pins showing, they hold the distributor fixed in position, non adjustable:

      Removing a sring dowel to advance the camshaft position sensor timing for experimental test, using diagonal cuters and a screw driver to pry the spring dowel out:

      Spring dowel removed:

      Distributor body is rotated counterclock wise just a bit:

      The distributor was reasembled and when the engine was started, the check engine light lit up shortly after. I stoped the engine and backed the distributor to its original position and then advanced it again, not as much as the first time. Started the engine and no trouble light came on this time, with a smaller amount of sensor advance than the first time. The first time the dowel hole was in front of the distributor bolt hole.
      I'm at work now and will follow up on this subject after my driving home experience .


      Modified by jorge r at 6:15 PM 7-20-2008


    3. 07-21-2008 12:54 AM #3
      I don't know what to tell you....I guess get a BENTLEY manual so you can test the ouput of the sensor directly?

    4. Member jorge r's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2006
      Location
      Los Angeles, 5&110
      Posts
      2,068
      Vehicles
      vw
      07-22-2008 06:57 PM #4
      Bentley and other manuals say the sensor is not replaceable, and it's not abailable except by replacing the distributor. That's changed, I have a sensor in order but for the fun of it, I'm playing with the existing trouble condition.
      I've driven the car a day and no trouble light, a good thing. Before this sensor position timing adjustment, I would get intermitent trouble light while driving, poor performance. Now, the performance has improved, it seems normal though the engine management may still be adjusting itself.
      I'll leave it as is until I replace the timing belt. I won't replace the sensor yet. It's possible the timing belt has stretched just enough to throw the trouble code and adjusting the CPS timing is a temporary patch. I've inspected the timing belt and its physicaly sound, though it was a bit loose. Instead of having 1/4 turn tension by hand, it had slightly closer to 3/8, slightly loose and stretched a bit. It was readjusted to the proper 1/4 turn tension.
      Once again, I have no plans to replace the timing belt in the imediate future, once I do, I can see if this trouble code is legitimate for the camshaft position sensor out of sync or a problem with its design.

    5. 07-22-2008 07:09 PM #5
      the timing belt has to be about a tooth off to throw that light. .. belt stretch could cause that i guess but if it is its more than likely time for a timing belt job. I think the main reason aba distributors die is the the harmonic the intermediate shaft gives off.

    6. Member Filthydubber's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 6th, 2007
      Location
      CT
      Posts
      3,369
      Vehicles
      A few cars
      07-22-2008 07:52 PM #6
      i just did the same thing, just someone with a vagcom clear the code after its thrown, it will never come back

      its just throwing a check engine light because the distributer is in a different position than the previous start.


    7. Member GTIRACER2.0t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2nd, 2001
      Posts
      2,182
      Vehicles
      '01 Indigo 4dr 1.8t , '94 4dr vr6 Obd2 gti swap
      07-23-2008 06:42 AM #7
      I have had that code for years. So did my friend. I was thinking I just could never time it completely right because when you set the marks all together and tension the belt the distributer would rotate slightly. I was thinking it may be 1 degree off. The car runs fine. Never had a problem other wise. Im going to try that now
      2001 Indigo 4dr hatch ,FT F23, 550's Maestro tune, 2.5" Autotech Exhaust, Kinetic FMIC, APR DV, 25th Front lip, 13.3 front Brakes, Hawk Pads ... RECARO Booster seat for my lil Copilot SOLD
      E90 330i ......Mk3 4DR Golf Vr6 Swap. Recaro Equipped

    8. Member GTIRACER2.0t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2nd, 2001
      Posts
      2,182
      Vehicles
      '01 Indigo 4dr 1.8t , '94 4dr vr6 Obd2 gti swap
      07-29-2008 09:21 PM #8
      BFTD
      2001 Indigo 4dr hatch ,FT F23, 550's Maestro tune, 2.5" Autotech Exhaust, Kinetic FMIC, APR DV, 25th Front lip, 13.3 front Brakes, Hawk Pads ... RECARO Booster seat for my lil Copilot SOLD
      E90 330i ......Mk3 4DR Golf Vr6 Swap. Recaro Equipped

    9. Member GTIRACER2.0t's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 2nd, 2001
      Posts
      2,182
      Vehicles
      '01 Indigo 4dr 1.8t , '94 4dr vr6 Obd2 gti swap
      07-29-2008 09:23 PM #9
      What ever happened?
      2001 Indigo 4dr hatch ,FT F23, 550's Maestro tune, 2.5" Autotech Exhaust, Kinetic FMIC, APR DV, 25th Front lip, 13.3 front Brakes, Hawk Pads ... RECARO Booster seat for my lil Copilot SOLD
      E90 330i ......Mk3 4DR Golf Vr6 Swap. Recaro Equipped

    10. Member jorge r's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2006
      Location
      Los Angeles, 5&110
      Posts
      2,068
      Vehicles
      vw
      07-30-2008 05:46 AM #10
      Thanks for looking and asking. After about a week of driving it city, CEL stayed off. I've had few power surges but more normal power than lack of power.
      My new sensor came in and I still havent done any changes to the distributor.
      Tuesday or yesterday, during a 140 miles highway round trip, the light came on but soon turned off, plenty of power in the highway, just a small amount of time the light came on. Then on the return trip, same thing, light on a mile or so, then out the rest of the trip with descent power, no surging.
      I haven't had time to check the CEL code and I heard unusual noise. I'm guessing the timing belt tensioner is going kind'a noise, I'll soon find out if it's that.

    11. Member jorge r's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2006
      Location
      Los Angeles, 5&110
      Posts
      2,068
      Vehicles
      vw
      07-30-2008 06:18 AM #11
      My CEL would turn on continuously at random before this tweaking of the sensor timing, it stays off, except at the start of an hour trip in the highway but only for a mile or so. I wonder if VAG-COM can analyze and adjust this electronicaly, such as timing and signal sensitivity. If it were, then It be a mater of a more intense tune up than usual.
      For now, it's doctoring and experimenting.

    12. Senior Member Dan J Reed's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 26th, 2004
      Location
      NJ - AKA - Earth's armpit.
      Posts
      26,506
      Vehicles
      Too many
      07-30-2008 08:58 AM #12
      Yes it can, I forget the measuring block.. but its "cam phase angle"..

    13. Member BlueDevilCabby's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 6th, 2006
      Location
      Grand Rapids, MI
      Posts
      5,571
      Vehicles
      97 Cabrio / 95 Harley Jetta / 94 GTI
      07-30-2008 09:21 AM #13
      i gotta keep an eye on this

    14. Member jorge r's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2006
      Location
      Los Angeles, 5&110
      Posts
      2,068
      Vehicles
      vw
      04-19-2009 05:54 AM #14
      :bump:

    15. Member paul_ral's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 23rd, 2007
      Location
      Romania
      Posts
      315
      Vehicles
      '93 Vento
      04-19-2009 07:00 AM #15
      That is a Hall sensor. I found a good DIY ifor replacement it's in russian, but you can follow the pics
      http://www.volkswagen.msk.ru/f...98508


      Modified by paul_ral at 2:02 PM 4-19-2009
      '93 Vento 1,8i, Recaro GTI Edition , GTI Anniversary seat belts. BBS 15"winter+BBS 15" summer, Climatronic, MFA, cruise control, 2xairbag, 4 EW, heated mirrors, electric headlights, adjustable steering wheel, heated seats, pindoors Wolfsburg Edition, VR6 look, pager, Gamma IV and CD changer
      '05 Peugeot 206, 1.4 HDI

    16. Member jorge r's Avatar
      Join Date
      Apr 27th, 2006
      Location
      Los Angeles, 5&110
      Posts
      2,068
      Vehicles
      vw
      04-21-2009 06:20 PM #16
      Quote, originally posted by paul_ral »
      That is a Hall sensor. I found a good DIY ifor replacement it's in russian, but you can follow the pics
      http://www.volkswagen.msk.ru/f...98508


      Modified by paul_ral at 2:02 PM 4-19-2009


      Awesome! Áåç ïåðåâîäà

      Here's another version of impulse sender/hall sensor/camshaft position sensor RR:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4342706


    17. Member fixwithahammer's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 4th, 2006
      Location
      honeoye
      Posts
      356
      Vehicles
      87 cabby, 200qt
      09-16-2009 08:14 PM #17
      nothing no one ever finishis thes things week sauce. very good updates tho

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •