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    Thread: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days

    1. Member BPhillipsGLI's Avatar
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      03-30-2009 11:18 AM #71
      Quote, originally posted by cew8gti »
      Hello all, It took me awhile but I'm finally jumping in on this conversation... been watching from afar for months w/ great interest. Here's the deal: I've owned my '04 W8 6-spd since April '08 (10 months); bought it w/ 32K and just hit 50K. God I love this car! But it scares the hell out of me. It was pretty much cherry when I bought it... and it's still almost like new. Seemed like the two previous owners must have barely driven it much in 4 yrs? 10 days after I bought it a fan switch failed and it overheated in traffic. The used car dealer covered the $1500 repair but had it over a week (they didn't blink an eye when I called that the car just broke down w/ an overheating problem... hmmm?). Then I had a couple mechanics (including a former certified VW tech who was now running a hi-tech tuner shop) tell me that they really weren't interested in getting involved with the service of my W8... hmmm? This all caused me to start looking for sites & topics like this... and stress out. I have an aftermarket warranty that I've used a couple times for other problems like a new radiator, etc a month ago w/ fair results (cost me $170 deductible & co-pay but it saved me over $600) but I don't know how well it would protect me if I catch the dreaded Cam Adjuster bug. That is IF I catch it before I sell it. Simply can't afford an $8K fix, period. God I love driving this car!

      I have several questions: are there any warning signs? Steps besides more frequent oil changes that can prevent? I've changed oil every 7K but I guess I may switch from Castrol to something better. Does the cam adjuster failure happen more frequently in either the auto or stick? Is there anyone out there that has high miles on a W8 and never had this problem or is it simply a FACT that it WILL happen to all... and will it, sooner or later, actually happen again after it has been repaired/replaced? Can I tell you how much enjoy driving this car... when its running well!

      Thanks for any advice.

      7K is too long an interval for oil changes. You should be changing your oil every 5k max. I usually change my oil every 3k as I drive my car very hard. Even with regular oil changes at the correct intervals there's still no guarentee since the update to this particular problem came out after these cars were released.


    2. 03-30-2009 06:48 PM #72
      So has anyone started some sort of lawsuit yet? I read the 1st two pages and this is defiantly recall material. And the only was to get a recall is to make them do something about it...

    3. Member BPhillipsGLI's Avatar
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      03-30-2009 09:02 PM #73
      From everything I've read about people dealing with this problem is that VWOA hasn't been the greatest to deal with. From one of the earlier threads, I remember a guy having this problem while under warranty and instead of them fixing the problem they replaced his engine with a used engine that hadn't gotten the update. So basically, he'd end up having the same problem down the road! The best thing that anyone can do if you want this car is to buy and extended warranty. I understand that warrenty issues have happened but I always say, "better safe than sorry." If you have an extended warrenty than at least you have some means of getting some type of help even if it isn't from VW themselves.

    4. Member RatCityBowlers's Avatar
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      04-19-2009 04:24 PM #74
      LOL. WHat is wrong with you people. Lawsuit? Really? Have none of you ever owned a car? Look i know your all pissed but if your car is out of warranty it is out of warranty. deal with it. You spent 45,000 dollars on a car with an engine that was put in the phaeton a 100,000 dolalr car. None of you got an extended warranty? Look I'm a vw tech and am currently looking at buying a W8. It had the t converter and cam adjusters at 30,000 miles. It only came in for the adjusters and VWoA which you all are bitching about told our tech to replace the converter while he was in there for free under warranty. VW takes care of you while your under warranty better then any other company out there. But you all want to sue? Heres a word of advice that some of youmay not know. You can still buy extended warranties after you have purchased a car. You can also buy them from credit unions/banks for a great deal less money. I do feel bad for you because i know it's expensive. But come on, you really want to blame vw? Also jsut to answer any questions about why they didn't replace the cam adjusters at the same time as the torque converter is because its only like 6 hours for the torque converter or something but 20+ for the cam adjusters. Most good techs if they do the cam adjusters let the customer know about the torque converter at that time since the trannys out as well as the engine. I hope everyone understands im not making fun of you, i just find it frustrating that everyone thinks vw should pay for all of this when the cars are out of warranty. Vw doesn't have to have recalls if its not a safety issue, but they have a lot of recalls on all of there cars because they like repeat buisness. But why would they want to have more recalls on vehicle that are limited like the w8 motor, or phaeton, or specialty vehicles like the beetle when everyone who owns those vehicles typically only bought the car for status or cuz it was cute and then swears off vw because of 1 issue. I love vw but they have some issues. But think you could be driving a chevy. Besides go drive a rabbit, or jetta, or gli, gti, or any of there new vehicles that are not special in some way and tell me what you think. MKV's are pretty much bullet prove because of what they have learned from beetle owners and w8 owners. So if your still mad though take a look at extended warranties. You might be able to pay just 1000 dollars and get everything fixed.

    5. 04-20-2009 12:11 AM #75

      Don't fall for the extended warranty trap! VW sold me a 4-year-48K mile extended warranty in April 2008 for $4,800.00. It covered all components. In Nov. 2008 the engine had to be replaced. They could not exceed the Blue Book value on the car for the repairs. This engine is so expensive that there are no W8's on the road today that are worth more than the engine cost. Strange isn't it? The engine cost more than the car.

      They valued my car $5K less than the engine cost. I had to pay the difference. So in a period of 7 months I shelled out over $9,600.00. Now that car isn't even worth $9,600.00.

      If you already own this car research the extended warranty carefully before buying. The one VW tries to sell you won't cover the full cost of the engine. If you're thinking of buying this car, RUN!.


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      05-17-2009 05:50 PM #76
      dstathos, What was your associated engien code and what was the original problem?

    7. 05-26-2009 06:48 PM #77
      All,

      Bought my 03 W8 about 2 months ago, 1 previous owner with 29,000 on it. Everything checked out.

      Last week it started to idle funny. Took it to the dealership and my estimated repair is $8,000. High cost of repair due to the parts for the adjusters I need to replace and the 35 hrs labor.

      I am now feverishly looking on the net for help. I love my car and want it back, but not with that price tag.

      1. Is it worth getting additional estimates from non-certified repair shops?
      2. Do they really have to take the whole engine apart (35 hours labor) to repair the cam shaft adjusters?
      3. Seems like there has been some success taking this up with VWoA. Any suggestions on who to contact or where to start with that.

      Signed,

      Want my w8 back ::sigh::


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      05-26-2009 08:22 PM #78
      I don't get it, $8k seems low for the total, and 35 is high for the labor, very high. I did one recently that was under an extended warranty and the labor time was 22 for r+r adjusters. The parts total for this job ended up around $5k plus, and labor would have been around $2200, so with tax and misc. there's your $8k. The parts needed are both adjusters, all 4 chain gears, 5 stretch bolts, a few guides rails and chain tensioner dampers if you want to really do it right, and a tensioner bolt. Not to mention a lot of misc gaskets, fluids, etc. If this shop is estimating all the stuff you really need, and quoting you 35 hrs, the total would be more than they're saying, especially since any shop will add a lot of padding to an estimate this big since there will be broken parts, etc. There are no labor shortcuts, and I wouldn't bother with most independent shops unless their rep is amazing, hell most dealer techs would f this up. VWoa would maybe help if you were the original owner or if you had just gone out of powertrain warranty a few days/weeks ago but it's probably a no go, though it wouldn't hurt to try.
      You could just tow the car home, go and buy a good aftermarket warranty life the top of the line fidelity one, then wait a while and tow the car to a dealer and say that it just started happening out of nowhere, then fidelity covers it. You do not want to own this car without an aftermarket warranty anyway, so this may be your only hope.

    9. 05-27-2009 01:34 AM #79
      Thanks rickmdjetta16v! Thats a good start. My parts list was more or less as follows:

      4x Adjuster @ $571.23 ea
      2x Timing Case @ $1775.65 total
      6x Gasket @ $177.89 total
      1 bolt, 12 washers, 1 seal, sealant (obviously a few things left out here)
      35 hours labor @$103/hr

      ***Anyone have any comps on parts/labor?

      ***Any idea whether or not I'll have any issues getting an aftermarket warrenty now that the car has already been into the dealership? or how much that would run me?

      ***Also, so the following post on pg 1.

      "VWoA sent a tech down twice for this last cam adjuster replacement and I got to speak with him. He told me that there is no difference between the replacement adjuster and the original. The problem is not with the adjuster. The problem is the motor. The screen in the adjuster fails because it gets clogged with metal fines from the engine. The oil pressure from the engine is enough to blow a hole through the adjuster and then there is a large mass of metal fines and metal screen particals that get lodged inside the came adjuster and causes it to fail. There is no fix. That's why there has been no recall. VW can not fix this problem. The only viable fix would be to replace the entire engine with something equivelent and there isn't anything close except the 3.2L V6 from the Audi."

      ***Any idea if ther is any maintenance that can ensure I won't be replacing the adjusters again? Any one else get the same back from VW/Audi? (will definitely be calling them ASAP)

      ***I can't beleive this happened at 32,000 mi. Any idea how long I could expect the repair to last if done right?

      ***If anyone has any pictures from the repair that would be most helpful, some from pg 1, but wondering if there are any before and afters or any suggestions on the best way to tackle this problem. (brother's a mechanic and is trying to help me out on this one).

      ***The way I see it I have 4 options:

      1. warranty the car and try and get a repair covered afterwards.
      2. fix the car and hope the dealership warranty holds.
      3. fix the car and go and get a warranty afterwards.
      4. fix the car and pray to god something else doesn't go wrong.

      So we are still talking $8k+

      ~Hoping to continue loving my W8.


    10. 05-27-2009 02:24 AM #80
      found something really intersting in my quest for answers RE cam shaft adjuster repair...

      http://www.w8forum.dk/forum_po...r-fix

      anyone wanna take a stab at debunking this one? think i'm gonna give it a shot regardless.


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      05-27-2009 10:49 AM #81
      Quote, originally posted by cew8gti »
      Hello all, It took me awhile but I'm finally jumping in on this conversation... been watching from afar for months w/ great interest. Here's the deal: I've owned my '04 W8 6-spd since April '08 (10 months); bought it w/ 32K and just hit 50K. God I love this car! But it scares the hell out of me. It was pretty much cherry when I bought it... and it's still almost like new. Seemed like the two previous owners must have barely driven it much in 4 yrs? 10 days after I bought it a fan switch failed and it overheated in traffic. The used car dealer covered the $1500 repair but had it over a week (they didn't blink an eye when I called that the car just broke down w/ an overheating problem... hmmm?). Then I had a couple mechanics (including a former certified VW tech who was now running a hi-tech tuner shop) tell me that they really weren't interested in getting involved with the service of my W8... hmmm? This all caused me to start looking for sites & topics like this... and stress out. I have an aftermarket warranty that I've used a couple times for other problems like a new radiator, etc a month ago w/ fair results (cost me $170 deductible & co-pay but it saved me over $600) but I don't know how well it would protect me if I catch the dreaded Cam Adjuster bug. That is IF I catch it before I sell it. Simply can't afford an $8K fix, period. God I love driving this car!

      I have several questions: are there any warning signs? Steps besides more frequent oil changes that can prevent? I've changed oil every 7K but I guess I may switch from Castrol to something better. Does the cam adjuster failure happen more frequently in either the auto or stick? Is there anyone out there that has high miles on a W8 and never had this problem or is it simply a FACT that it WILL happen to all... and will it, sooner or later, actually happen again after it has been repaired/replaced? Can I tell you how much enjoy driving this car... when its running well!

      Thanks for any advice.

      I have yet to read about a single 6MT W8 with a cam adjuster repair. Why I don't know but all the problems I've seen so far are TIP cars. Also since you have a manual the TC will not be a problem for you either. I change the oil in my W8 between 4K and 5K miles and only use VW approved full synthetic oil.


    12. 05-27-2009 11:37 AM #82
      My original engine code was for the torque converter. It wasn't until the converter was replaced and the dealer took it for a test drive that the cam adjuster code popped up.

      My guess is that although these adjusters are designed bad, they actually don't fail until some kind of major work that forces the engine to be lowered (like a torque converter replacement).

      I think that there are those W8 owners out there that haven't had this problem simply because the engine hasn't had any major work to it.

      But I could be wrong... this is only my observation from my own car--not enough for it to be fact though.


    13. 05-27-2009 11:51 AM #83
      I believe VWofA engineers give different reasons for the cam adjuster problem.

      The mechanic couldn't find any metal shavings of any kind in the engine during my cam adjuster replacement. There wasn't any blockage and everything seemed fine.

      He guesses that in my case, not enough oil pressure simply seized the adjusters after 90K miles and it took the converter repair for the adjuster issue to finally surface.

      I have a fried of mine that has a W8 with a 6 speed and he has yet to encounter this problem. But, he periodically has rough engine idle that returns to normal after 20-30 secs. Could that be an indication that the adjusters are failing? Maybe when he needs to change his clutch, this problem will rear its ugly head then?

      Who knows? I'm not a mechanic or an automotive engineer. But, what I do know is two things:

      * the engine is badly designed as a vehicle for everyday driving and low maintenance
      * I"ve heard/read different stories from VWoA engineer as to the cause of the problem and its potential fix.

      If you go to W8 Forums, you will find that someone realized that by using the VAG-COM unit, you can basically run a test to each adjuster that in effect "clobbers" any objects that may be clogging the channels for oil. I'd try that before any work is done.



    14. Member BPhillipsGLI's Avatar
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      05-27-2009 01:30 PM #84
      Quote, originally posted by dstathos »

      I have a fried of mine that has a W8 with a 6 speed and he has yet to encounter this problem. But, he periodically has rough engine idle that returns to normal after 20-30 secs. Could that be an indication that the adjusters are failing? Maybe when he needs to change his clutch, this problem will rear its ugly head then?

      Who knows? I'm not a mechanic or an automotive engineer. But, what I do know is two things:

      * the engine is badly designed as a vehicle for everyday driving and low maintenance
      * I"ve heard/read different stories from VWoA engineer as to the cause of the problem and its potential fix.

      If you go to W8 Forums, you will find that someone realized that by using the VAG-COM unit, you can basically run a test to each adjuster that in effect "clobbers" any objects that may be clogging the channels for oil. I'd try that before any work is done.


      My wagon started the rough idle symptom a couple of months ago, and I started to get really worried being that I had just purchased the car about 6 months ago. Since then I've ran one full cleaning cycle of Auto RX, and have started another cleaning cycle. You won't believe the amount of stuff you'll see come out of your engine in the oil. The stuff works amazing. During the first cycle I did have to replace the oil vent valve, separator, and vent hose. I think it's like $450 to have all that work done at the dealer if you don't have a warranty, but all I had to pay was my deductable. Since the replacement of those parts, and the first cleaning cycle I haven't had any rough idling at stop lights anymore or anything like that. I'm not saying that's cure for the problem by any means but it's helped me.

      If this doesn't work maybe I'll get the dealership to try the 12volt battery trick mentioned in the W8 forums.


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      05-28-2009 11:15 AM #85
      Quote, originally posted by BPhillipsGLI »
      If this doesn't work maybe I'll get the dealership to try the 12volt battery trick mentioned in the W8 forums.

      My dealership already did it as a precaution using their own computer.


    16. Member BlackJelli's Avatar
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      05-31-2009 02:38 PM #86
      Quote, originally posted by B5Speedo »

      I have yet to read about a single 6MT W8 with a cam adjuster repair. Why I don't know but all the problems I've seen so far are TIP cars.

      my 6MT W8 produced a P011 code and had defective cam adjusters. i had them replaced Feb 08 as well as both downstream O2 sensors and clutch. all has been fine since. well, until the thermostat code i got two weeks ago...

      (aka squish on W8 forum)

      thankyouverymuch

    17. 06-01-2009 04:11 PM #87
      UPDATE:

      So after much fretting RE the $8000 repair looming for my CAM Shaft Adjusters +...

      My brother ran some seafoam and then did an oil change. After that oil change he ran some high end synthetic w5-50 and PRESTO... engine light off. Ended up costing me about $200 + $350 I'm giving him for ingeniously helping me avoid a $8000 expense.

      The problem is that when your W8 sits or only goes short distances gunk builds up in the screens/etc. (see the previous post where I posted the link to the W8 forum with the 12V/clean out trick) So the best thing is to ALWAYS let your car warm up and try not to drive it short distances without giving it some time to sit and cool down. I bought it from someone who obviously did this with only 30,000 on it in 5 years. AND ALWAYS change your oil w/ VW cert. every 2500-3000.

      I'll let you know if it holds, but it doesn't idle when stopped and no more check engine light. Off to buy my extended warranty now.

      p.s. side note on the electrical hardwire for your stereo. My volume/track control buttons on my steering wheel and my corresponding display on my dash went out. The dealership wanted $1500 to replace the wheel and the stereo. Turns out unplugging the battery fixed it.

      Falling in love w/ my W8 all over again,


      Modified by ibtango at 1:12 PM 6-1-2009


      Modified by ibtango at 1:13 PM 6-1-2009


    18. 06-01-2009 09:34 PM #88
      **Not sure about the short/long trip theory. My car has always seen trips 15 miles or longer with commutes 25 minutes or longer.

      **As for the whole warming up theory........The VWoA tech told me that is was bad to let these engines sit and idle to warm up. He said that the oil pressure wasn't high enough at idle (especially on higher mileage W8's to make the cam adjusters work properly).

      My W8 has had 2 cam adjuster failures. The 1st happened @ around 33K and that was with 5k oil changes with mobile 1 5w40. The 2nd failure occurred like clock work at around 66K. I was changing my oil every 3-4K miles using more expensive oil and the proven zinc enhancer z-max every other oil change. It made no difference.

      I now have a brand new engine. I'm running real synthetic oil at $9.00/qt (not the wannabee synthetic like Mobil1). At 9,000 miles I have changed my oil 4 times already. At 8,000 miles I have metal in my oil in a BRAND NEW engine. VWoA refuses to stand behind their 12K mile warranty. I'm sending another oil sample out to a certified lab before the 12K is up so I can start a law suit.


    19. Member
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      06-02-2009 11:14 AM #89
      [QUOTE=un4givun2VWoA refuses to stand behind their 12K mile warranty. I'm sending another oil sample out to a certified lab before the 12K is up so I can start a law suit.

      [/QUOTE]

      Good luck with the law suit and keep us posted. I'm sure their are other owners (US, CA, and UK) that would like to join and turn it into a class action suit.


    20. Member
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      06-02-2009 11:15 AM #90
      Quote, originally posted by BlackJelli »

      my 6MT W8 produced a P011 code and had defective cam adjusters. i had them replaced Feb 08 as well as both downstream O2 sensors and clutch. all has been fine since. well, until the thermostat code i got two weeks ago...

      (aka squish on W8 forum)

      Thanks for letting us know. You are now officially a myth buster.

      I wonder if there are any more 6MTs?


    21. 06-14-2009 05:43 PM #91
      Yes, there are. I have an '04 W8 6MT.

    22. Member
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      06-14-2009 09:04 PM #92
      Quote, originally posted by seatowjoe »
      Yes, there are. I have an '04 W8 6MT.

      When did you have it done and how many miles were on the car when it was done?


    23. 07-12-2009 12:07 PM #93
      We have also gone through the dreaded W8 camshaft adjuster problem, and we have a potential cheap solution after having this car into two car repair facilities. The first shop had a couple of master mechanics, and the second repair shop was a large VW dealer.

      Both repair facilities said that the fix was going to involve taking the engine (VW said the engine AND transmission together!) out and replacing the cam shaft position sensors. (Costs ran about $3k for labor, and $5-6k for parts). We did some lenghty searches on the internet (VW forums, etc.) and we found two alternative (cheap) fixes. One involved giving the W8 electro-shock therapy (http://www.w8forum.dk/forum_po...r-fix). The first master mechanic decided to try this after sympathizing with the crazy cost of having to remove an engine to replace a couple of sensors. This only had marginal success, and the car intermittently idled very rough (a sympton of the cam-shaft position sensor not working).

      Next we went to the VW repair shop to get some recall repairs done, and also paid them another 65 bucks to run the codes on the engine, despite the fact that we already knew the problem - . They were able to produce two codes - P0102 and P0113. These are related to a mass air flow sensor problem and a cam shaft positioning error. After telling them we were not interested in forking out $8-9,000 bucks to have the cam shaft sensors replaced - one employee passed on some very useful information. He said that another person he knew had the same problem, but simply continued to drive the car with the problem, and after a while the vibration problem "went away". We have learned from this VW forum that there is an "utra-fine" screen in the cam shaft sensor that is prone to decripitation, and gets into the cam shaft sensor (the sensor is apparently adjusted through oil pressure, and is supposedly a very reliable mechanism used on some long-standing german engines, regularly put into Audis). It can also get gummed-up with oil, and cease to function properly. The VW employee told us that continuing to drive a W8 with the cam adjuster problem will completely dislodge the screens from the cam adjuster mechanism, and bits of the screen will cycle through the oil and be removed with your next oil change.

      There is also another entry on this forum that mentions one person was able to fix this problem by running "engine-purge" through his oil and cleaning out the oil system in the engine (this would also include the cam adjusters I would assume since they are regulated by oil pressure). Given the cost of this ($4.50 for the engine purge), we decided to try this before forking out $9,000 to the V-dub dealer).

      We looked at the oil after doing the engine purge, and found lots of small metallic pieces that I assume were the filter (now completely blown-out). Upon starting the car, it ran like a charm and the engine warning light has gone out.

      I think that this shows that the failure of the filter in the cam shaft adusters can be addressed with two possible solutions: 1) Most mechanics will tell you that you just have to suck it up and replace all f the cam shaft adjuster mechanisms for $9,000 - this is obviously going to fix the problem, by removing the filter parts along with the mechanism, but at great expense. 2) Given the fact that this problem seems to fixable by either drving the car for a while after it has broken, or simply cleaning out the engine of the old oil and gummed-up material, seems to indicate that simply "ceaning-up" the engine will fix the problem (total cost $120 bucks).

      Any good Doctor will tell you that if you have a medical problem, the best way to approach the problem is to start with the least invasive method first. So try the following - it worked for us - and I hope it works for you!

      1) Do the elctro shock therapy to work the gunk out of the clogged cam shaft adjuster solenoid.
      2) Add 1 quart engine purge to the oil and run the engine for 5-10 minutes (don't drive it!). Drain the oil, and examine it for very fine metal shavings - if you see it, this is probably the filter screen.
      3) Add some cheap oil and repeat the same processs with another quart of engine purge. Drain the oil.
      4) Replace the oil filter and add some synthetic low viscosity oil - we used 0W-20 weight. We used this in order for the oil to get easily into the cam shaft adjuster mechanism and free it up.
      5) Spend the $9,000 bucks on something you really want! - and also make sure you tell VW about your issues regarding this engine's flawed design.

      This worked for us, and given the expense of the other option, you may want to consider it. Let others know if it works.....


    24. Member
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      07-12-2009 06:02 PM #94
      Gumby,

      I'm glad to hear your problem seems to be solved. I've never heard of engine purge before. Is this what you used from BG products?

      http://www.bgprod.com/products/engineoil.html

      This product seems similar to Auto-Rx however, I'm really surprised it works in only 5-10 minutes. You instructions seem a little vague.

      If you have to add a quart of the engine purge don;t you first have to remove a quart of oil from the engine?

      When you say drain and add some cheap oil what do you mean? Dino or synthetic? What viscosity? Then do you just run the engine for 5-10 minutes and drain it again?

      Is it only with the third oil replacement that you replace the oil filter? When you added the 0W20, what oil type and brand did you use? How long did you keep this in the engine before you went back to 5W40 full synthetic?

      So in summary your added a quart of the engine purge two times or three?

      How many miles have you gone since you did this treatment?

      TIA

      Tom


    25. 07-12-2009 09:06 PM #95
      We used generic engine flush from advance autoparts here in denver... The brand was gunk. We had enough room in the engine for the quart of gunk engine flush . If yours is full, I guess you should just let a quart out and replace it with engine flush. (We're sure the BG stuff is pretty much the same as the gunk).

      For us, the instructions on the bottle said to let the flush run through the car for 5 minutes (running, of course), it's probably best to follow whatever directions are printed on the bottle of BG.

      After you run the flush through, drain your oil, and you'll probably see little metal flakes inside it.

      Then, fill your car with any type of oil, one quart short of full, it doesn't matter what kind as it will only be used for about 5 minutes. We used 5W-30 dino oil, just cheap stuff. Put the engine flush in, repeat the steps from before. Drain the oil once again, and do your best to fully purge the vehicle of oil, so all the metal pieces are gone.

      After the second purging, replace your oil filter as well, just in case it has obstructions in it.

      Once everything is back together, after changing your oil twice (and thereby flushing the engine twice), fill your car with the best quality oil you can find, we used mobil 0W-20 fully synthetic stuff.


      Good luck, hope to see your W8 up and running properly!!!

      buy some beer with your spare bucks!!!


    26. 07-13-2009 09:57 AM #96
      This is a very good post, but, you must remember one thing. These engines cannot take much pain.

      My mechanic pretty much did all the things you mentioned to my car last year (except the solenoid exercise). I tried driving it to the "stuff pass", but, the only thing it did was ruin my plugs, harmed my injectors and the catalytic converter needed to be changed.

      So, as good as a procedure this is, be very weary of any harmful effects.

      Good luck!!


    27. 07-13-2009 01:39 PM #97
      I couldn't agree more that these engines are very delicate and tempermental. Sounds to me like your mechanic added some fuel additive instead of oil flush . Again, I'm not a mechanic but fuel additives radically change the chemistry of the fuel and are prone to burning out catalytic converters, oxygen sensors etc. since the fuel burns at much hotter temperatures than normal.

      The oil purge has a residence time in your engine of 5-10 minutes, and doesn't get into the fuel system so it should not harm any of the fuel/exhaust system that you mentioned.

      PS - if you want to replicate what we did, make sure you do the electro-shock therapy BEFORE the oil purge (two times), as this should clean out the camshaft solenoid, so any gunk that has been loosened can be removed in the oil changes.

      By the way, this car had only 50,000 miles on it before the camshaft sensors went wonky....


    28. 07-13-2009 02:50 PM #98
      Quote, originally posted by Gumbyrock »
      I couldn't agree more that these engines are very delicate and tempermental. Sounds to me like your mechanic added some fuel additive instead of oil flush . Again, I'm not a mechanic but fuel additives radically change the chemistry of the fuel and are prone to burning out catalytic converters, oxygen sensors etc. since the fuel burns at much hotter temperatures than normal.

      The oil purge has a residence time in your engine of 5-10 minutes, and doesn't get into the fuel system so it should not harm any of the fuel/exhaust system that you mentioned.

      PS - if you want to replicate what we did, make sure you do the electro-shock therapy BEFORE the oil purge (two times), as this should clean out the camshaft solenoid, so any gunk that has been loosened can be removed in the oil changes.

      By the way, this car had only 50,000 miles on it before the camshaft sensors went wonky....

      Actually, the reason why everything got fouled up was because during the time my car was in that condition (spuddering, spewing out smoke), all the components downstream were covered in exhaust with half-ignited gas causing them to either malfunction and/or completely breakdown. In certain cases, they were able to "clean up", but, in others (like the catalytic converter), I was SOL--luckily, they changed it for free (as well as my plugs and wires).


    29. 07-13-2009 03:08 PM #99
      Quote, originally posted by RatCityBowlers »
      LOL. WHat is wrong with you people. Lawsuit? Really? Have none of you ever owned a car? Look i know your all pissed but if your car is out of warranty it is out of warranty. deal with it. You spent 45,000 dollars on a car with an engine that was put in the phaeton a 100,000 dolalr car. None of you got an extended warranty? Look I'm a vw tech and am currently looking at buying a W8. It had the t converter and cam adjusters at 30,000 miles. It only came in for the adjusters and VWoA which you all are bitching about told our tech to replace the converter while he was in there for free under warranty. VW takes care of you while your under warranty better then any other company out there. But you all want to sue? Heres a word of advice that some of youmay not know. You can still buy extended warranties after you have purchased a car. You can also buy them from credit unions/banks for a great deal less money. I do feel bad for you because i know it's expensive. But come on, you really want to blame vw? Also jsut to answer any questions about why they didn't replace the cam adjusters at the same time as the torque converter is because its only like 6 hours for the torque converter or something but 20+ for the cam adjusters. Most good techs if they do the cam adjusters let the customer know about the torque converter at that time since the trannys out as well as the engine. I hope everyone understands im not making fun of you, i just find it frustrating that everyone thinks vw should pay for all of this when the cars are out of warranty. Vw doesn't have to have recalls if its not a safety issue, but they have a lot of recalls on all of there cars because they like repeat buisness. But why would they want to have more recalls on vehicle that are limited like the w8 motor, or phaeton, or specialty vehicles like the beetle when everyone who owns those vehicles typically only bought the car for status or cuz it was cute and then swears off vw because of 1 issue. I love vw but they have some issues. But think you could be driving a chevy. Besides go drive a rabbit, or jetta, or gli, gti, or any of there new vehicles that are not special in some way and tell me what you think. MKV's are pretty much bullet prove because of what they have learned from beetle owners and w8 owners. So if your still mad though take a look at extended warranties. You might be able to pay just 1000 dollars and get everything fixed.

      Ughh... I really dislike these posts.

      I've seen these posts in every W8 forum: "VW mechanic/techy" responds to griping W8 owners with cavalier statements that don't necessary solve their problem--only inflate their situation. They even want to buy one.

      In fact, VW did create a lemon and deserves to be sued as they KNEW that this is a problem. Why would they have dropped it from the lineup so soon after it came out? Why would they have paid for parts and services for my cam adjusters and services for TC?

      Any car that is manufactured these days for the masses (i.e. not the Bugatti consumer) and cost $40K brand new should be expected to drive without major issue for 100K miles--without an additional charge of an extended warranty. We've been in this business too long to have done otherwise.

      Capitalism not only exists in the consumer product space, it also extends itself in the litigation industry. It's what prevents products like a W8 from ever appearing again--lol... So, sue away!!

      To all VW mechanics who want a W8: Want mine? Take it! It's been for sale for almost a year, yet, I never get any responses from you with interest.


    30. 07-13-2009 09:21 PM #100
      Dstathos,
      Lemon is an understatement. I've been driving for nearly 30 years and I never put less than 30K a year on any daily driver except this W8. I've owned this car for 4 years now and I can't rack more than 20K/year. That's because it won't run long enough to accumalate more than 20K/year. I've replaced almost everything on this car and it has 88K on it.
      List of replaced items:
      1) Fuel Tank
      2) All 3 fuel level sending units
      3) Instrument cluster
      4) Electronic control module for the steering wheel mounted controls
      5) Home Link Sun Visor
      6) Rewelded and resealed the floor pan-to-fire wall welds and seam sealer
      7) Drain tubes for the sun roof
      8) Chrome Roof Rails replaced because chrome was flaking off (3 years)
      9) Cam Adjusters at 3?,000
      10 Cam adjusters again at 76,000
      11) New engine at 79K
      12) New radiator Fan at 76K
      13) New Alternator at 76K
      14) New Transmission at 49K
      15) New outer front axle boots at 40K
      16) New inner front axle boots at 55K
      17) New heat shields for exhaust (recall)
      18) New left rear emergency brake cable
      19) New main alternater wiring harness at 84K

      List of items car needs today to be 95%:
      1) New front axles (left front inner CV joint going out)
      2) New control arms upper and lower (car wanders and makes popping noises and won't hold alignment) Found excess play in all 4 lower ball joints. Since most A4's never have issues with the front end I assume this is relative to the extra weight of the W8 engine on basically a 4 cylinder front end.
      3) New coil overs front and rear (car won't hold the road anymore when braking over imperfections or washboard surfaces) Makes distinct clunking noises on the right front when hitting minor imperfections in the road at low speeds. Car noise dives very badly and vise versa on acceleration.


      I've already spent well over $25,000.00 in the last 2 years on the drive train and electrical. Now I've got to spend another $2-3K on the suspension (that's if I do all the work myself). All new control arms and tie rods is $1,200.00 and all new KYB coil overs is another $1,400.00.

      On any other car of this caliber I would gladly drop $3K to update/refresh the suspension. But with this car you hang on to every last dime you have in case you need a new transmission or engine.


      Modified by un4givun2 at 6:23 PM 7-13-2009


    31. Member
      Join Date
      Dec 22nd, 2007
      Location
      Delaware
      Posts
      120
      Vehicles
      99 MKIV Golf 2.0L, 99 B5 Passat 2.8L, 2004 Passat W8 4.0L, 2005 Mustang Contvertible Premium Package
      07-14-2009 09:27 PM #101
      Exactly why I traded mine after owning for 2 months, cost and frequency of repairs is no where near my old 2.8 V6 Passat and I can't afford this costly beast, I thought my old Passat was bad, it's nothing compared to a W8

    32. 07-19-2009 07:22 AM #102
      Wanna hear my sad sob story read this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4482708
      I wonder if I can call VWoA and trick..err demand they fix their unreliable engine lol. Any W8 experts in the NYC wanna help an owner out with a possible rebuild .
      My friend bought a certified 2006 GLI from a dealership..had problems soon as he rolled out the lot. Engine constantly overheating/a few knocks from the gearbox. Luckily he's has warranty but 10+ visits for servicing the same problem and the best they can do is tell him 'maybe you don't know how to drive the car' . com'on the car is a turbo, what is it there for. He's doesn’t dog or race the car but he drives it like a turbo is meant to be driven. Whirling away.

      All these experiences makes me wanna turn tail and run away from German cars. Performance seems to be great but like reliability (and cost effectiveness) is not in there vocabulary. I think i wannt an A4


      Modified by Fr3nZy at 2:48 AM 7-20-2009


    33. 07-19-2009 10:24 PM #103
      What can you say? It's a total disregard for quality and service. When I first bought my VW I had no concerns about any of this. I was aware of VW's poor record for quality and service, but I knew the service manager at the VW dealership here in Memphis. I trusted him. Every repair he made to my car was done right. If a repair they made didn't fix the problem they kept going back until they did fix the problem at no extra charge. That was until May 2008. The service manager and 4 of his technicians quit and opened there own business. I asked him what happened (if anything) and he said it was getting too corrupt for him. He couldn't look his repeat customers, that he had known for years, in the eyes and smile while ripping them off. He had never done it and he refused to do it. He opened his own garage and he works mostly on German cars. I have not got a commitment from him yet, but I may have his testimony in court.

    34. 07-22-2009 09:37 PM #104
      First of all, it was NOT a water leak. The carpet got wet/destroyed because the factory didn't weld or seal the panels together connecting the floor pan to the firewall.

      VWoA thought it was serious enough to weld the panels, reseal the seams, and replace the carpet free of charge. It was obviously a factory defect.

      Either you know nothing about cars or quality or you're a certified VW Technician.

      This is my 1st water leak in any car. I own 6 cars today (1967 VW, 2000 Dakota R/T, 1972 VW Beetle, 1998 Honda Accord, 2002 VW Passat W8, and a 1998 Diesel Dodge Ram). From 1986-2002 I've owned at least 1 new car every other year. More than once I've owned 2 new cars. As soon as the economy recovers a little I'm going to buy 2 more new cars (trading in the W8, HIP HIP HURRAY!.

      Wake Up Dude! The VW dealer here (and I assume all the others) documents these kinds of repairs. Anyone can go to CARFAX and see the laundry list of MAJOR repairs on my Passat including the $5,500.00 transmission, the $6,000.00 cam adjusters, and the $10,000.00 engine.

      Sorry if I lowered your resale value with the flaming post...BooHoo!

      I got news for you, I didn't lower your resale value. VW lowered your resale value the day they stopped the production of the W8 engine. They lowered your resale value when they made the conscious decision not to produce and stock any internal engine parts for your 4.0L. They lowered your resale value when they mated an 8cyl engine to a 6cyl transmission (hence all the transmission failures). Wake Up and smell the coffee dude. Your precious W8 is a P.O.S!


    35. 09-29-2009 06:10 PM #105
      Update - since we did the oil purge, we have not had the engine camshafter warning come on for 5 months. As an added note, I spoke with a reputable mechanic and he told me that he is doing one of these jobs every two weeks. He said something about not having to pull the entire engine, and that they replaced the seals around the camshaft adjuster and this fixes the problem - it only costs about 1,000 bucks for this job, but he said it is a very tight squeeze and they have to nudge the engine loose a bit. He is in Colorado, and if anyone wants his name I would be happy to furnish it if requested. (Denver).

      He also said the camshaft error is caused by sludge - this would explain why the engine flush worked for us!!


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