The continuing saga of the weeniemobile fuel pumps

[dasdachshund]

Thought I'd transfer over to a new thread, my last post from "Changed hoses and it still doesn't run right":

"OK, after doing a lot of soul searching, and like I said, not being in love with this car, I made the hard decision to keep it and try to fix my problems with the hot weather running. Problem is it hasn’t been hot enough out lately to replicate my problem described above. Car has been running just dandy, though. I’ve been on the NeoBentley a lot lately (thanks tons tolusina ) and came across the picture of the CIS fuel pump taken apart with around 150,000 miles on it here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2890716
What’s really telling is just how much that armature is worn out. I just have to believe that mine is in the same condition. The weeniemoble has around 180,000 miles on it. So I was going to order the whole fuel pump works from GermanAutoParts.com but decided to run this by the local FLAPS I trust so much called Cost Less Auto Parts in North Vancouver. They quoted me a rebuilt main one, a Python brand, which they say they’ve had very good luck with for $108 and a new transfer in-tank pump for $54. Short story, I went and picked them up yesterday and will get to the transfer pump tonight and the main pump this weekend. Will take tons of pic’s and post up the results, but I probably won’t know if this solves my problem unless the weather gets above 90F again, and it doesn’t get that hot all that often around here.
-dasdachshund"

Let's start the new thread :

Well, it turned warm again this afternoon and when I got off of work, I pulled out into traffic and promptly got into stop and go for 10 minutes before I could get to the freeway on ramp (Which usually takes me 1-2 minutes). I finally accelerated onto the highway and got up to speed where the car promptly shuddered and shook for a few beats, but then settled down and ran nice up to North Vancouver. Ah yes, the hot running car blues, again. Thoughts of selling the weeniemoble flood my mind at that moment, but I have the new pumps at home. If I can just get home.
I was dreading getting off the freeway back into stop and go traffic, and it did hiccup a few times on the surface streets. I pulled into a gas station (Got gas for under $4/gal for the first time in months! ) and put a couple bucks in because I was low, and this enabled the car to sit for a while, and I hoped at least let me make it a few more blocks. I got to the Boys and Girls club and picked my daughter up with no further problems, and turned and headed for home, not knowing what to expect. Easing it off the line and in shifting, seemed to help. It only hiccupped once on the way home, (shifting from second to third up a hill) and when I pulled into the driveway and shut it off, there was no way I was going to drive it again without at least changing the transfer pump in the tank.

Changing the in-tank fuel pump is a snap. Nothing to it at all I’ll take you through mine.

1. Undo the two screws in the front of the back seat bottom.

2. Pull the seat out and Voila! Look at all that treasure.

3. Clean all the dirt and debris up. You’re only interested in the round black cover on the passenger side. Take the three screws off.

4. The cover comes off to reveal something like this
Mine has been messed with sometime in it’s life because it has a screw hose clamp on the top hose (non-standard) and a crimp type (standard OEM) on the bottom hose.

5. Undo the hose clamps .

6. Take all the hoses and electrical connector off the top.

7. Now see those notches around the outside of the top of the assembly? Get a big screwdriver and hammer and whack it counter-clock wise. For some reason, mine took a real good whack to unlock. It will only turn about ½ inch, so be careful.

8. Now comes the fun part of finaggleing that whole assembly out of the hole. It doesn’t seem like it will come out in one piece, but here’s proof it does. (after a good 2 minutes of twisting and turning)

9. Well, at least my screen on the bottom of the old pump wasn’t clogged with Ka-Ka (good thing) Kinda old looking though, and when I peered into the tank, you could clearly see the bottom through the gas and it was in terrific shape, no rust or sediemnt at all. I’m very happy.

10. Take a good pair of dykes and cut off the OEM clamp from that little piece of hose that goes from the pump, to the top assembly

11. Here’s what it looks like apart. Just leave the old hose on the old pump, you don’t need it anyway. You did get a new piece of 5/16" hose didn't ya?

12. Ah, my new 5/16 fuel line and new screw clamps. I got 2 feet, way overkill.

13. Put the new pump on the top assembly, just like the old one. Connect up the electrical connection. I just cut a chunk of new 5/16 hose the same length as the old.

14. Clamp it down good and snug.

Finaggle that pump and assembly back into the hole and make sure not to pinch the o-ring under the top. Whack it back into place with the screwdriver in the notch, this time going clockwise. It only goes a little ways and locks into place. Mine really snapped into place smartly. Tighten the clamps on the hoses and reconnect the electrical connector.

15. That’s it, folks!!
16. Ah yes, an excursion under the back seat can potentially make you somewhat wealthier if you had the right previous owner, but alas, all I got was 11 cents, a cool little tin of Tiger Balm, and a previous owners Blood donor information cards and Oregon Liquor Control Commission I.D. card from 1981. And a very suggestive little piece of wood, almost like a cork. Hummmmmm……..

Does the weeniemoble run better? Like I said before, I have to wait for hot weather (Maybe tomorrow afternoon?) to find out, but it did fire right off and revved like a VW should and settled down to a real smooth idle, something it hasn’t done in a long time. Next on the list is the main pump. I’ll post pic’s of that change, too.

-dasdachshund

Modified by dasdachshund at 12:50 PM 8-6-2008

[native-texan_in_tn]

Excellent write-up which took longer to photograph and caption than to actually complete, I'm sure! I noticed the same improvement in running when I swapped mine out, too, so getting done with the main pump certainly won't hurt things, either.

[dasdachshund]

OK, I got the main pump changed out and it was a job I thought would be a bear, and it didn’t disappoint me. I started at 9am in the morning and was finally completely done just after 2pm, so you’re warned. Although I did make a couple mistakes which I’ll point out which should probably chop at least a good 45 minutes off the total time. Here we go:

Picture of the newly rebuilt Python fuel pump. Heavy duty unit, looks good.

You will need to jack your car up and get it good and stable on jack stands, unless you are Flatman or his side kick Ribbon.

Ok, now we are dealing with lots of fuel here, so do yourself a favor and disconnect that ground from the battery.

Now find your fuel pump. I’m not kidding. I thought mine was in the passenger side rear wheel well. Nope. It is approximately directly under the place where the front passenger’s seat belt winds into by the rear seat. This picture is taken by the back wheel. In the picture which is the pump? Number 1 or number 2? It’s number 2. Number 1 is called the fuel accumulator and number 2 is the pump, all packaged up in a sound proof little foam box, courtesy of your friendly VW in Wolfsburg. It’s supposed to be a sound deadening thing so the pump whine won’t drive you crazy. But it will drive you crazy trying to get that banjo fitting off the pump, so don’t try. This is where I lost at least 45 minutes!!

Start by disconnecting the 3/8” rubber fuel hose that goes onto a metal fuel line going toward the back of the car from the pump. ***WARNING- This is the long line from the pump up to the engine. When you disconnect this hose, approximately 2-3 cups of fuel are going to come out. Get an appropriate size container to catch it in.*** Yes, it takes a long time but it will stop draining, let it all come out.

Now disconnect both lines from the fuel accumulator. That’s the round cylinder thing just inboard the fuel pump (Number 1 above). Disconnect both ends of the line that routes under the pump to a fitting. Both of those ends take a 17mm and a 14mm wrench to crack. Then disconnect the larger short line to the pump at the accumulator. This takes 19mm and 17mm wrenches to crack open. Leave the other end of the fuel line ON THE PUMP.

When the lines are off the accumulator, now you can take the nuts holding the big ‘ol box and pump, off. One is an 11mm (WT?!?!?) and the other is a 13mm by the outside of the car. You may also want to loosen that small stamped braket under the accumulator which holds the emergency brake cable in place. And the little metal wire one right by the pump itself.

OK, now that you have some wiggle room with the pump assembly, now you can now finagle and get those two wires off under the rubber caps. One is a 7mm the other is 8mm. The connectors are also different sizes so you can’t make a mistake putting the wiring back on. After getting the wires off, now you can slip that whole big ‘ol box out and onto your workbench, or in my case, fence top. Here is what it’ll look like, all grimy and dirty from the years under the car.

Take everything over and give it a good scrub so you can win “best looking fuel pump carrier” at your next show.

Yep, mine was probably the original pump with 180,000+ miles on it.

Now you can take that banjo fitting off the other end of the old pump and transfer it all over to the new one (Mine didn’t come with any new fittings or washers whatsoever) Now, I went over to get new copper crush washers at my friendly neighborhood hardware store but they were out, so I got some fuel impervious sealer and coated both sides of the old copper washers and reused. I know, it’s just asking for trouble, but you gotta do what ya gotta do on a Sunday with no running car. So far, it is fine. Put everything back together…..Purrrty.

Here is what the space looks like without the pump.

Reassemble everything. I put the wires on first so I knew the rubber boots were good and sealing the connections, then finagled the assembly back into place. Reattached the 11mm and 13mm nuts. Then reconnected all the lines, SNUG!! The hardest part was getting that short, stubby line from the pump back onto the accumulator. The others were a snap. Then put all the brackets back on and tighten. Remember those emergency cable brackets, too.

Lastly, you get to go and put the negative cable back on the battery and then fire it off. It’ll take a lot of cranks (Maybe 5-8 seconds, remember you emptied that fuel line to the front of the car) but what a sound when it fires. Mine was SMMMOOOOOTH.

Now turn it back off and go back around and check for leaks. Mine didn’t have any and I gave a big sigh, danced a jig, and made holy signs to the fuel pump gods. I was through, but I am going to check it again in a couple days just to make sure.

Good luck with yours.

-dasdachshund



Modified by dasdachshund at 7:03 AM 8-7-2008

[dasdachshund]

UPDATE

Today (8/4/08) it was 88F and a good test for the weeniemobile, so after work (the hottest part of the day around 3:30pm) I got on the freeway and made my way up north about 5-6 miles to an exit I knew I could get off and be safe at if it died. The car had the pep I remembered it having way back when and never missed a beat going up there. I drove about 2 miles in stop and go traffic on surface streets and I didn’t baby it either. Kinda daring it to hiccup. No problems whatsoever. Drove back down south again on the freeway to my house and it didn’t miss a beat. I’m convinced that I have solved my hot running problem and am very happy to be driving the drop-top in the super nice weather. My old fuel pump never would have made it being taxed out to the max like that. I’m going to be going down to Eugene this weekend for the US Amateur golf tourney. Drop top all the way, baby.
Absolutely no leaks anywhere in the fuel system and I really want to recommend the sealant I used on the copper washers called “SealAll”. And for $1.69. Also gonna try it on my #2 fuel injector that is weeping to see if I can get that to stop, too.

The only thing is, is that I don’t know which pump was the one dieing, but I now have two good pumps which give me a lot of peace of mind. I just may have to cut my old one open to see the condition of the armature. I’m curious.
Trade-in thoughts are gone for now….

-dasdachshund

[DaveLinger]

holy moly dude, I think most of the drivers in here would have just sold the car before going through all of the work you have! Great job!

[THOM.E.GUNZ]

Thanks for the thread. I'm changing my transfer pump this weekend. This helps a lot.

[briano1234]

"WARNING DANGER WILL ROBINSON" If you remove the ring please place a piece of duct tape over the blade of the screwdriver to reduce the chance of a stray spark.... or to quote Johnny Storm of the Fantastic Four "FLAME ON"

You can also reduce the chance by not disconnecting your fuel hoses until after you remove the ring.

[kamzcab86]

And you wanted to get rid of it...

Nice how-to... so nice, it's been Cabby-Info'd.

[native-texan_in_tn]

Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 »

And you wanted to get rid of it... Nice how-to... so nice, it's been Cabby-Info'd.

Good call and excellent write-up... Yep, changing both does give you plenty of peace of mind, I agree! Glad the changes smoothed her out...

[Colombian Gringo]

Great write-up! Thank you for taking the time to do it.

[dasdachshund]

UPDATE......again
Anyway it was 96F out yesterday and I had a lot of running around to do. No leaks. The car never failed to fire or run flawlessly in all the hot weather I was in yesterday. I really consider the '85 cabriolet hot weather funky blues permanently fixed.
Now I don't know for SURE, but my seat of the pants evaluation tells me that the car is running much smoother and much more peepier now that I've done the re-pump thang. I don't have to baby it around anymore in the hot weather and I am surprised when it doesn't burp when I shift gears. I really believe that my fuel pressure was very marginal and that the car is now running with the proper pressure. MUCH better.

Quote, originally posted by kamzcab86 »

And you wanted to get rid of it... Nice how-to... so nice, it's been Cabby-Info'd.

Also, thanks for putting my write up in the info site. Kam. I try to make it my goal to make my posts informative enough to make it onto the info site if you choose. Now I have a goal of making it into the NeoBentley! Thanks, again.

Am I in love with my car now? Still negative. Maybe if I can get it to stop leaking when it rains......

-dasdachshund

[tolusina]

Quote, originally posted by dasdachshund »

....... Now I have a goal of making it into the NeoBentley! .....

This thread is already so there, Group 20, didn't you get my IM?

<edit>
copy/paste of the IM.......

(4:10 PM 8-5-2008) tolusina: Gill,
Your "weeniemobile fuel pumps" thread is a great how to write up, lots of annotated photos and a decent explanation of each. It sure goes beyond what Bentley offers and looks to be a great help to newbies looking for help.
You can find your thread linked on the neoBentley+ at both of it's locations......
http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/
and
http://mk1dubs.com/modules.php...id=22
Hope you don't mind.
TIA,
Ron


</edit>


Great thread here!!






Modified by tolusina at 7:33 PM 8-7-2008

[mkr001]

I'm currently dealing with similar problems on both my cabs NICE write-up.

[BellCityDubber]

hey cool
just what I needed for my cabby...

[89dx]

wow iam doing this tomorrow and this thread will be a great help to me, my cabby is doing the same symptoms, dying at stops, hiccups and the shake and bake

thanks

[livingez123]

Does the 82 Cabbys have the in tank pump also?

[Moljinar]

I love the fact you managed to get the fuel pump brackets to survive the procedure. I've replaced dozens of pumps and have YET to have one bracket live thru the process.

I usually put the foam surround on the pump and then zip-tie it to the e-brake cable to keep it from flopping around.

I just thought I'd mention that for anyone trying to do the job as well as you did and not quite managing

[egranlund]

My bracket survived

While this thread is back from the dead, you rule, made this job so much easier.

I was gonna state that when I did mine, I was able to get the pump out without disconnecting the accumulator, I was able to fanagle the pump around it which is good, as that fitting would not budge.

Thanks again

[ilovevvv]

saved... just got my fuel pumps ordered... you broke it down for me son..lol

[maketoast]

This is one of the first things I did when I bought the cabby a few years back. Great write up.. I'm missing the main fuel pump carrier, so it makes a little more noise than stock.

Also, I used vice grips to turn the sending unit. I put them right on the lip and voila!.

[Mr_Sandman]

Quote, originally posted by dasdachshund »

UPDATE ....Absolutely no leaks anywhere in the fuel system and I really want to recommend the sealant I used on the copper washers called “SealAll”. And for $1.69. Also gonna try it on my #2 fuel injector that is weeping to see if I can get that to stop, too. -dasdachshund

Great write-up!!

A trick I learned from the USAF for those copper washers, if you can't get new ones you can "Anneal" the old ones.

requires a butane torch
little piece of wire (steel)
cup of water.

Take the copper washer and hang it from a loop of wire. With the torch get the washer cherry red then quench (drop) in the water.

Washer is now nice and soft like new.
I have reused the oil pan and fuel washers for years with this method.

Sandy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...urgy)

[dasdachshund]

Quote, originally posted by ilovevvv »

saved... just got my fuel pumps ordered... you broke it down for me son..lol

Son?!?!? You must be in your late 80's then.

Yeah, I about spit up my Diet Coke when I saw this thread back from the dead. But my cab is STILL running great in hot weather. No hesitation whatsoever. Now, if I could only say the same thing about my rattely exhaust and leaky top.

-dasdachshund

[CajunSpike]

Thanks for awesome article. I'm getting power loss below 1/2 tank at times. Already changed inline pump..needed to know how to change in tank pump(already have it). This write up is perfect and much appreciated. I'm working on a 92 cabby right now..have a 91 EA right behind it too.

[livingez123]

Rattely exhaust and leaky top here in Portland too!
I know how to fix the exh, its the dang leaky top I can't figure out.

[CajunSpike]

follow up to power loss below 1/2 tank: The rubber hose from the float assembly to the fuel pump was very bad. I'm guessing it was letting air in when the fuel level got below it. Replaced rubber hose, replaced intank pump..car runs well. No starvation below 1/2 tank anymore.

[YJSAABMAN]

Quote, originally posted by livingez123 »

Does the 82 Cabbys have the in tank pump also?

A little late to the party, but no, the '82s only have the main pump under the car. Reaplced mine at 180,xxx miles and had no real lissues. Bracket/carrier made it through intact. I, too, used one of the Python reman pumps with great results.

[cheeseland]

bringing it back to life again

[easilyamused]

Thank you very much for this. I've been having what seems to be the same hot-weather issue with my cabby, so i'll be changing out the fuel pumps as well in hopes that fixes it.

[jgold723]

This thread saved my day. Had the same problem with my 87 and I replaced the inline pump today. I'll be doing the tank pump later. I found I had to remove the fuel accumulator in order to get everything apart, but otherwise followed your directions. You never did say how you removed that banjo fitting from the old pump -- I ended up snapping off the old terminals because they were preventing me from unscrewing the fitting. Thanks again.

[jgold723]

I did the transfer pump (in tank) today. Went well, except that it was a real bear to get the 5/16 hose on. Question: There's a second fuel line extending down from the sending unit (the first being the one that the pump attaches to). What does it do? The rubber fuel line had completely rotted away and unfortunately, I didn't have enough to replace it, so I put the unit back in without it. It ran fine, so I'm wondering what it's purpose is? Should I get some more hose?

John

[easilyamused]

Mine was missing the line as well, I went ahead and put a line on it just in case. I eyeballed the measurement of the one in the pictures from dasdachshund's original post and cut one to the same length. So far it hasn't caused any problems having it on, though I still can't really decide what is; i'm thinking it's just a return line though.