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    Thread: Official Displacement Increasing Thread

    1. Member crazyass713's Avatar
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      08-03-2008 08:13 PM #1
      This is the official thread for increasing the displacements in both the 058 and 06A blocks. After reading numerous posts about overbores and/or increasing stroke, I decided vortex could use a thread on the matter for new members and current members wishing to learn about the subject. This is my attempt to help out the forum on this matter

      To answer the question, “should I go stroker or not?” it’s different for everybody. In my motor, I was going to drop in rods and call it a day. After disassembling my motor, I checked wall to piston clearance and I measured .004” which is too much. So I had to overbore. Since I was buying pistons and rods, I decided to just buy a crank at the same time. If you buy overbore pistons and later decide to stroke your motor, you will have to buy pistons again, which I was wanting to do so I did it all in one shot. Another thing that made me think about doing pistons from the beginning was that I wanted to lower the compression ratio so I could run higher boost on pump gas. Basically, if you are replacing your pistons and rods, you should go stroker.

      First, you need to know which block you have in order to determine what course of action you need to take.

      Here is how you can tell if you have an 058: you have an engine coded AEB or ATW, you have an external water pump, you have an intermediate shaft (IM shaft) for the oil pump, and you are drive by cable, ect…

      Here is how you can tell if you have an 06A: you have an engine coded AWM, AWD, AWW, AWP, AMB, ATC, AJQ, APX, AUG, APP, ARY, AUQ, AMU, BAM, BEA, APH or AWV you have an internal water pump, you have no IM shaft, and you are drive by wire, ect…

      Displacements are as follows:
      81mm bore x 86.4mm stroke = 1781cc (stock)
      81.5mm bore x 86.4mm stroke = 1803cc
      82mm bore x 86.4mm stroke = 1825cc
      82.5mm bore x 86.4mm stroke = 1848cc
      83mm bore x 86.4mm stroke = 1870cc
      83.5mm bore x 86.4mm stroke = 1893cc

      Now when you add a 92.8mm stroke crank to you engine you have the following displacements:
      81mm bore x 92.8 mm stroke = 1913cc
      81.5mm bore x 92.8mm stroke = 1937cc
      82mm bore x 92.8mm stroke = 1961cc
      82.5mm bore x 92.8mm stroke = 1985cc
      83mm bore x 92.8mm stroke = 2009cc
      83.5mm bore x 92.8mm stroke = 2033cc

      I will not go into the 95.5mm crank from the TDI as I do not know enough to accurately inform people about making it work in either the 06A or 059 blocks.

      I will start with the 058 block. Stock bore is 81mm, pistons are generally offered in .5mm increments over stock, there are some exceptions. JE, Mahle, Wiseco, CP, and Supertech are the popular choices, not to say the only ones that are good. For rods, you use stock length (144mm). Scat, Pauter, IE and Carillo are the popular choices, again, not the only ones that are good.

      For using a stock crank, the process is pretty straight forward. You tear down the motor and bore the cylinders. Install is the reversal but with the exceptions of putting the new slugs in.

      For stroking the motor, the process is much more involved. You need pistons with a lower deck height due to the increase of stroke. The same rod dimensions are used and if the stock height pistons were used, the pistons would travel 3.2mm too high and impact the valves. Not good as you can imagine. So custom pistons will be needed and they are readily available for order because luckily for us, others have been doing this and the design has already been done. Which crank do you use? Well since you are 058 you must use an ABA crank from a MK3 Volkswagen. Pre OBD2 cranks are forged, post are cast. Chances are you won’t be coming anywhere NEAR breaking either unless you are going to max out a 35R or beyond. Now for the installation of the whole setup… A couple things will need to be done to make clearance for the rods due to the larger stroke of the crank. #1 The block will need to be grinded away by about 1.5-2mm on the side of the block away from the IM shaft. Cylinder 3 has a hump that the rest do not and that will need to be ground a bit more. The rods will actually clear without any grinding, but you should have at least .100” clearance in my opinion. #2 The cylinder 4 oil squirter will need to be moved away from the piston using a copper o-ring between the block and the squirter. You will also need to grind the corner closest to the back of the motor and closest to the cylinder. #3 The IM shaft will need to be modified. The gear will need to be machined down to a thinner size. The amount needed to be removed depends on the type of rods you use, mind you only a little bit, but it does matter.

      For the 058 you will NEED the following to reassemble your motor:
      Crank bearings
      Main Bearings
      Main Bolts
      Head bolts
      Flywheel bolts
      Rear main seal
      IM shaft seal
      Headgasket (if you are going past 82mm bore a head gasket from an ALT will be needed)
      Oil pan gasket
      Front seal
      Valve cover gasket set


      You SHOULD do the following things as well:
      Oil pump
      Timing Belt
      Rollers and tensioners
      Serpentine belt
      Water Pump
      Thermostat


      Now on to the 06A block things are a bit easier for a stroker. The same applies for the stock stroke builds, just bore and put in new pistons. The reason the stroker crank is easier to run is because nothing has to be clearenced. Just install your new rods, pistons and crank and you are good to go. You have several options for crankshafts. For drop in solutions you have the AZG and AEG cranks. The AEG and AZG are from MK4 2.0’s and are cast in construction. The other options are ALT and BPV which are from a B6 2.0 FSI found in Europe. They have the wrong oil pump gear and need to be modified to be used in this application. The ALT is cast and the BPV forged. If you have the correct oil pump gear pressed on, the ALT and BPV can be used just like the AZG and AEG, just drop in and go.

      For the 06A you will NEED the following to reassemble your motor:
      Crank bearings
      Main Bearings
      Main Bolts
      Head bolts
      Flywheel bolts
      Rear main seal
      Headgasket (if you are going past 82mm bore a head gasket from an ALT will be needed)
      Oil pan silicone sealant
      Front seal
      Valve cover gasket set


      You SHOULD do the following things as well:
      Oil pump
      Timing Belt
      Rollers and tensioners
      Serpentine belt
      Water Pump
      Thermostat


      Now for the credits:
      Issam Abed (wizard-of-od) for providing me with every possible crank option there is lol
      Paul Calado (killa) for convincing me to go stroker with his write up
      The original guys in this scene who pioneered the stroker stuff for us
      And all the others I’ve probably missed

      Also here are some pictures from when I went to 2008cc on my 058 blocked A4 (and one from killa), this will give you 058 block guys some idea of what it’ll take to fit that ABA crank in there:




      2001 Golf mid-engine RWD Allroad 01E 2.7T TVS1320 BW S374 twincharged (long title, I know)

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    2. 08-03-2008 08:19 PM #2
      Or you could buy my 2.0fsi crank lol... sorry i just had to and btw nice thread!

    3. Member crazyass713's Avatar
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      08-03-2008 08:31 PM #3
      Quote, originally posted by slow85golf »
      Or you could buy my 2.0fsi crank lol... sorry i just had to and btw nice thread!

      with the correct oil gear pressed on of course

      2001 Golf mid-engine RWD Allroad 01E 2.7T TVS1320 BW S374 twincharged (long title, I know)

      2004 A4 Ultrasport 2.0T 3076R built to the hilt all the way around (daily sleeper status)

    4. Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      08-03-2008 09:35 PM #4
      Is the FSI crank cast or forged? Also, do you have the part numbers for the cranks you mentioned, specfically the ALT and BPV? How easy is it to get these Euro cranks?
      Audi TT mk1 FAQ Officially zero Fuchs given.

      Quote Originally Posted by Crimping Is Easy View Post
      Oh hot damn, a diesel wagon with a stickshift. I've always wanted to feel like I was driving a UPS truck everywhere I go.

    5. Member crazyass713's Avatar
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      08-03-2008 09:53 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by l88m22vette »
      Is the FSI crank cast or forged? Also, do you have the part numbers for the cranks you mentioned, specfically the ALT and BPV? How easy is it to get these Euro cranks?

      FSI is forged... I dont have any parts numbers or access to the european cranks but shoot a pm to user INA on here, Im sure he can help you

      2001 Golf mid-engine RWD Allroad 01E 2.7T TVS1320 BW S374 twincharged (long title, I know)

      2004 A4 Ultrasport 2.0T 3076R built to the hilt all the way around (daily sleeper status)

    6. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 12:32 AM #6
      Excellent write up Jacob

      However forget the ALT.
      p.s. I have yet to see a failed oil pump on these engines.


      Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 12:33 AM 8-4-2008


    7. 08-04-2008 12:52 AM #7
      Agreed on the failed oil pump. And I had to clearance the oil squirters for my FSI crank and 83mm Wiseco's. Pics to come shortly.

    8. Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 12:53 AM #8
      So, does it really matter whether or not you use a forged crank? I've read about cast 1.8t cranks holding 500hp...Also, wanted to include a parts link - $608 for an FSI (2.0T A3) crank. That plus $350 for rods? $1100 seems like a good price for a 2.0. I wonder how my K04 would handle it...could I theoretically build my engine to 2.0 and use the stock ECU, or would I need to get it tuned?


      Modified by l88m22vette at 11:54 PM 8-3-2008
      Audi TT mk1 FAQ Officially zero Fuchs given.

      Quote Originally Posted by Crimping Is Easy View Post
      Oh hot damn, a diesel wagon with a stickshift. I've always wanted to feel like I was driving a UPS truck everywhere I go.

    9. Member crazyass713's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 07:04 AM #9
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »
      Excellent write up Jacob

      thanks for your help

      Quote, originally posted by Adam@Unitronic.ca »
      And I had to clearance the oil squirters for my FSI crank and 83mm Wiseco's. Pics to come shortly.

      Nice, that would be cool if you could contribute Adam

      2001 Golf mid-engine RWD Allroad 01E 2.7T TVS1320 BW S374 twincharged (long title, I know)

      2004 A4 Ultrasport 2.0T 3076R built to the hilt all the way around (daily sleeper status)

    10. Member crazyass713's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 07:05 AM #10
      Quote, originally posted by l88m22vette »
      So, does it really matter whether or not you use a forged crank? I've read about cast 1.8t cranks holding 500hp...

      Doesnt really matter unless you are going for the moon, and you mention K04 in your post

      2001 Golf mid-engine RWD Allroad 01E 2.7T TVS1320 BW S374 twincharged (long title, I know)

      2004 A4 Ultrasport 2.0T 3076R built to the hilt all the way around (daily sleeper status)

    11. 08-04-2008 08:44 AM #11
      Quote, originally posted by l88m22vette »
      Also, wanted to include a parts link - $608 for an FSI (2.0T A3) crank. That plus $350 for rods? $1100 seems like a good price for a 2.0.

      That's $950, then you still need the custom pistons. You can't get it done for $1100, plus you still have to buy the new oil pump gear. I got lucky and got my crank over a year ago on ebay for $200.


    12. Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 09:05 AM #12
      Ok, thanks for the info guys...I saw QED has Supertechs for $600, and that would be on top of rods, so yea, $1100 isn't going to do it. I'm definetly interested to see the squirter clearancing Adam.
      Audi TT mk1 FAQ Officially zero Fuchs given.

      Quote Originally Posted by Crimping Is Easy View Post
      Oh hot damn, a diesel wagon with a stickshift. I've always wanted to feel like I was driving a UPS truck everywhere I go.

    13. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 09:15 AM #13
      Who makes an 83.5 slug for the 86.4 stroke?

    14. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 09:18 AM #14
      Quote, originally posted by Adam@Unitronic.ca »
      And I had to clearance the oil squirters for my FSI crank and 83mm Wiseco's

      You had to clearance your pistons for the squirters,not the crank...
      Its a direct fit in all 06A/06B blocks.
      Quote, originally posted by 20aeman »
      Who makes an 83.5 slug for the 86.4 stroke?

      We do (INA).Send me a PM on that account

    15. 08-04-2008 09:23 AM #15
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »

      You had to clearance your pistons for the squirters,not the crank...
      Its a direct fit in all 06A/06B blocks.

      No, I didn't touch my pistons or the crank. I clearanced the squirters, just like I said. JE, Wiseco, lots of people make overbore pistons for stock stroke.


    16. 08-04-2008 11:33 AM #16
      Ill be the first one to say PLEASE CLEARANCE THE SQUIRTERS!! Even the 06A blocks need clearanced since mine hit, among another member. As for the crank, Autoxtreme's drag car is running over 600whp and running a cast crank w/o issues

    17. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 10:01 PM #17
      You DO NOT NEED to clearance the squirters,leave them alone.Purchase pistons with the skirts clearanced allready.

    18. 08-04-2008 10:10 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »
      You DO NOT NEED to clearance the squirters,leave them alone.Purchase pistons with the skirts clearanced allready.

      So is that a "do not buy wiseco" post? My wisecos hit, Garry's hit all 4 and Adam's would of hit if he ran it. Guess i should of stated Wiseco

      Also i didnt see if it was posted, but the NA 20v gasket is thinner and will increase the c/r some


      Modified by cincyTT at 9:11 PM 8-4-2008


    19. Member 20thAEGti1009's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 10:11 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »
      You DO NOT NEED to clearance the squirters,leave them alone.Purchase pistons with the skirts clearanced allready.

      x2

      i have never had to clearance any of my oil squirters and i have run both JE's and now am running the Supertech's from bobq all with no clearance issues at all

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    20. 08-04-2008 10:13 PM #20
      Nothing like telling people not to do something when others have had horror stories

    21. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 10:24 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by cincyTT »
      Nothing like telling people not to do something when others have had horror stories

      Nathan,
      It really depends on your piston manufacturer.
      The crankshaft counter weights clearance the oil squirters fine...even up to 95.5mm stroke.

    22. 08-04-2008 10:33 PM #22
      I guess my #3 squirter got scared and just jumped in the oil pan then.

      Im just stating that telling people to not to bother with checking and spacing the squirters is going to bite someone in the ass (i already stated 3 that did get bit). With me being one of them, i know its not a fun experiece driving home with a squirter working its way down to the oil pan


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      08-04-2008 10:35 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by crazyass713 »

      All I see is your using my pic without asking for it.

      Expect to hear from my lawyer


    24. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 10:37 PM #24
      Quote, originally posted by cincyTT »
      I guess my #3 squirter got scared and just jumped in the oil pan then.

      Im just stating that telling people to not to bother with checking and spacing the squirters is going to bite someone in the ass (i already stated 3 that did get bit). With me being one of them, i know its not a fun experiece driving home with a squirter working its way down to the oil pan


      Rotating your engine by hand before cranking it WILL bite you in the ass.No question about it BUT considering all your oil squirters sit on the same plane,I would say that you had an ugly duck for a #3 piston

    25. 08-04-2008 10:40 PM #25
      That one was replaced and all the others got spaced out, basically what Adam is doing now with his wiseco pistons

    26. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 10:41 PM #26
      Quote, originally posted by cincyTT »
      That one was replaced and all the others got spaced out, basically what Adam is doing now with his wiseco pistons


    27. Member crazyass713's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 10:42 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by killa »

      All I see is your using my pic without asking for it.

      Expect to hear from my lawyer

      Sorry senor Calado, I appologize

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    28. 08-04-2008 10:43 PM #28
      Quote, originally posted by Wizard-of-OD »
      You DO NOT NEED to clearance the squirters,leave them alone.Purchase pistons with the skirts clearanced allready.

      Quote, originally posted by cincyTT »

      So is that a "do not buy wiseco" post? My wisecos hit, Garry's hit all 4 and Adam's would of hit if he ran it. Guess i should of stated Wiseco

      Also i didnt see if it was posted, but the NA 20v gasket is thinner and will increase the c/r some


      Modified by cincyTT at 9:11 PM 8-4-2008


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      08-04-2008 10:50 PM #29
      Quote, originally posted by crazyass713 »

      Sorry senor Calado, I appologize

      It's Senhor to you ( I'm not Spanish anything)

      All good Jacob, this might not be Old School but you're my boy!!!!!


    30. Member crazyass713's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 10:55 PM #30
      Quote, originally posted by killa »

      It's Senhor to you ( I'm not Spanish anything)

      All good Jacob, this might not be Old School but you're my boy!!!!!

      2001 Golf mid-engine RWD Allroad 01E 2.7T TVS1320 BW S374 twincharged (long title, I know)

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    31. Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      08-04-2008 11:57 PM #31
      Any pics of how to clearance squirters on a 06A block, or do you grind the same place you do for the 058 (in pic above)?
      Audi TT mk1 FAQ Officially zero Fuchs given.

      Quote Originally Posted by Crimping Is Easy View Post
      Oh hot damn, a diesel wagon with a stickshift. I've always wanted to feel like I was driving a UPS truck everywhere I go.

    32. 08-05-2008 12:04 AM #32
      No grinding, your adding in a washer if you use wiseco pistons. You will be fine if you use a different brand listed before

    33. 08-05-2008 01:51 AM #33
      Quote, originally posted by cincyTT »
      No grinding, your adding in a washer if you use wiseco pistons. You will be fine if you use a different brand listed before

      That's a blanket statement that you should avoid. Just like you said, everyone needs to check and not assume they're good.

      Quote, originally posted by l88m22vette »
      Any pics of how to clearance squirters on a 06A block, or do you grind the same place you do for the 058 (in pic above)?



      You don't need 3 washers, this was just some test fitting. Obviously it will vary based on your pistons. Here are some pics of OEM AEB pistons and the stroker Wisecos. Notice the difference in skirts, and where the OEM's have accounted for the squirters. Even with the shorter body of the Wiseco and the change in moving the wrist pin up, it obviously wasn't enough. It's worth noting that there's also many versions of the squirters, so there's probably no consistency to any of this.




    34. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      08-05-2008 10:45 AM #34
      Quote, originally posted by Adam@Unitronic.ca »
      It's worth noting that there's also many versions of the squirters, so there's probably no consistency to any of this.

      All the 06A squirters I have come across are the same.You have an image showing different ones?

      ABF --> 9A --> AWM (1.8T)


    35. 08-05-2008 10:52 AM #35
      Thank you Adam for the extra input and pics.

      Issam, when my broken one was replaced, the builder recieved one that was actually longer than the stock ones (i have an atc, not sure what engine code these were from) and that one didnt need any more clearancing but the stocks did. Im sorry i dont have pics since i wasnt the builder or on site


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