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    Thread: New Camaro = Vauxhall?

    1. 08-11-2008 03:52 PM #1
      I was watching Top Gear last night and they were saying the new Camaro is a GM body on top of the Vauxhall Monaro chassis.

      I've yet to see this mentioned in any new Camaro thread, what gives?

      Old News?


    2. 08-11-2008 03:56 PM #2
      No they are not correct. The Monaro was on the old Commodore platform, like the GTO. This Camaro is based on the new Zeta platform which underpins the G8, new Commodore, and new Vauxhall VXR8. But there are significant changes as well, including size and components.

    3. 08-11-2008 04:04 PM #3
      Quote, originally posted by saabspider »
      No they are not correct. The Monaro was on the old Commodore platform, like the GTO. This Camaro is based on the new Zeta platform which underpins the G8, new Commodore, and new Vauxhall VXR8. But there are significant changes as well, including size and components.

      I guess my main question is:

      Did Vauxhall develop the chassis the Camaro will be built on, or did GM develop the chassis the VXR is built on?

      I know it's a global economy, but the venerable Camaro being built on an outsourced chassis doesn't fit right with me.


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      08-11-2008 04:12 PM #4
      Unless I've been misinformed Holden developed the zeta platform.
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      08-11-2008 04:13 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by RogueOne »
      outsourced chassis

      You mean, GM outsourcing to GM?

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      08-11-2008 04:13 PM #6
      Quote, originally posted by RogueOne »

      I know it's a global economy, but the venerable Camaro being built on an outsourced chassis doesn't fit right with me.

      If I normally choke the monkey with my left hand, but then outsource it to my right....is it still called outsourcing?

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      08-11-2008 04:16 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by RogueOne »
      I guess my main question is:

      Did Vauxhall develop the chassis the Camaro will be built on, or did GM develop the chassis the VXR is built on?

      Yes.

      Actually, it's not really a yes/yes question. Vauxhalls are one big cluster of rebadged GM vehicles from all throughout their brands. One country's Vauxhall is another country's Opel is another country's Daewoo is another country's Saturn is another country's Chevrolet is another country's Saab is another country's Pontiac... and so on.

      The long and short of it is, the platform was developed for the next-gen Commodore/G8 and the Camaro/Impala. The plug was pulled on a RWD Impala though. I believe the new CTS is on a shortened version of the platform as well but I may be wrong.

      Quote, originally posted by Wikipedia article on GM »
      Active brands
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      Modified by PassSedanGLX at 9:21 PM 8-11-2008
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      08-11-2008 04:17 PM #8
      Quote, originally posted by GahannaKid »
      If I normally choke the monkey with my left hand, but then outsource it to my right....is it still called outsourcing?

      Only if you sit on your right hand until it falls asleep and then close your eyes.


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      08-11-2008 04:20 PM #9
      Vauxhall doesn't develop a damned thing anymore - it's a Britain-only nameplate for GM cars of various origins. They used to have a decent amount of unique content, and at one time developed all their own cars, but now all of their models are identical to Opels or Holdens.

      The Vauxhall Monaro and Vauxhall VXR8 were developed by Holden, in Australia, where they were originally badged the Holden Monaro and Holden Commodore.

      With GM's increasing globalization, those distinctions are becoming less and less meaningful, though.

      AFAIK the next generation of GM cars is being developed in (by):
      - South Korea (GM-Daewoo): small cars and small SUVs
      - Germany/UK/Sweden (Opel/Vauxhall/Saab): small to midsize cars, 4cyl engines, diesel engines
      - USA: midsize cars, sports cars, trucks, SUVs, v6 and v8 engines, hybrids, alt fuels
      - Australia (Holden): large cars

      In the specific case of the Camaro: the Zeta platform was originally developed in Australia for the Holden Commodore/Calais (aka Pontiac G8, Vauxhall VXR8). It's also currently only built in Australia. However, the Camaro itself was designed in the US and is heavily altered from the other Zeta cars. The front suspension was moved forward relative to the engine and cowl, for better polar moment and to mimic the concept car's stance. The floorpan was then shortened to turn the fullsize sedan into a midsize coupe. It will be built in Oshawa, Ontario, Canada.

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      08-11-2008 04:21 PM #10
      someone in the the tappett brothers thread mentioned that the guys on top gear know nothing about cars....this proves it.

      the brit-centric spin on this gem is complete bollocks, now where's my tea?!


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      08-11-2008 04:25 PM #11
      Top Gear is NOT where you should be getting your information from. It's entertainment. It's the 'Daily Show' of cars.

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      08-11-2008 04:26 PM #12
      The OP also got the quote a bit wrong.

      I'm pretty sure the TG guys said it was based on the VXR8, not Monaro, which would at least be half-correct... and more useful information for their mostly British viewership who know the VXR8 but maybe not the Commodore.

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      08-11-2008 04:28 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by username »
      the brit-centric spin on this gem is complete bollocks, now where's my tea?!


      The entire British empire was built on cups of tea, and if you think I'm going to war without one, mate, you're mistaken.

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      08-11-2008 04:29 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by GahannaKid »

      If I normally choke the monkey with my left hand, but then outsource it to my right....is it still called outsourcing?

      Isn't that called 'The Stranger' ??

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    15. 08-11-2008 04:30 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by Merc-MarkO »

      Isn't that called 'The Stranger' ??

      Indeed it is. Otherwise it's a "switch fapper"


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      08-11-2008 04:33 PM #16
      New Camaro = G8 coupe

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      08-11-2008 04:37 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by GahannaKid »


      The entire British empire was built on cups of tea, and if you think I'm going to war without one, mate, you're mistaken.

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      08-11-2008 04:38 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by AKADriver »
      The OP also got the quote a bit wrong.

      I'm pretty sure the TG guys said it was based on the VXR8, not Monaro, which would at least be half-correct... and more useful information for their mostly British viewership who know the VXR8 but maybe not the Commodore.

      Just watched the section... the actual quote is:

      [Clarkson]The Americans are good at herding Bison. The end. . . . Ok, what is this underneath, underneath, this is a Vauxhaul VXR, isn't it, ok, which is actually a Holden. So what the American's have done, yeah, is they've gone we need some sophistication here, We'll call the Australians[/Clarkson]


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      08-11-2008 05:21 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by RogueOne »

      I guess my main question is:

      Did Vauxhall develop the chassis the Camaro will be built on, or did GM develop the chassis the VXR is built on?

      I know it's a global economy, but the venerable Camaro being built on an outsourced chassis doesn't fit right with me.

      yes the camaro chassis was outsourced by GM to be made by GM. confusing lot it is.

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      08-11-2008 05:32 PM #20
      Quote, originally posted by cerksies »
      Just watched the section... the actual quote is:

      [Clarkson]The Americans are good at herding Bison. The end. . . . Ok, what is this underneath, underneath, this is a Vauxhaul VXR, isn't it, ok, which is actually a Holden. So what the American's have done, yeah, is they've gone we need some sophistication here, We'll call the Australians[/Clarkson]

      Right. So, snark aside, Clarkson got the lineage right.

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    21. 08-11-2008 05:41 PM #21
      Quote, originally posted by RogueOne »

      I guess my main question is:

      Did Vauxhall develop the chassis the Camaro will be built on, or did GM develop the chassis the VXR is built on?

      I know it's a global economy, but the venerable Camaro being built on an outsourced chassis doesn't fit right with me.

      First of all, Vauxhall IS GM.

      Secondly, I don't think Vauxhall had any input on the Zeta chassis... Holden maybe, but not Vauxhall.


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      08-11-2008 05:45 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by AKADriver »

      Right. So, snark aside, Clarkson got the lineage right.

      Pretty much.

      Once again, had to chase it 'round the world, crucify GM, beat the "Clarkson is God" drum and make references of masturbation to get there. The Camaro is Australian.


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      08-11-2008 05:59 PM #23
      As far as I know Zeta was intended as a world chassis from the very start, unlike the chassis that was adapted for the GTO. I can remember reading about the dozens of US engineers they had sent down under to assist with the development.

      Letting the Aussies lead on the RWD stuff is a great idea IMO. Like BMW they never stopped doing RWD cars when everyone else decided FWD was the way of the future. They have the experience to get the job done without a doubt.


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      08-11-2008 05:59 PM #24
      The fact that the platform was not developed in the US is why that car might turn out to handle half decently.

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      08-11-2008 06:00 PM #25
      Quote, originally posted by chamade »
      The fact that the platform was not developed in the US is why that car might turn out to handle half decently.


      Yeah it might have turned out to be a real turd like the Vette, Solstice, and Cobalt.


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      08-11-2008 06:03 PM #26
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      08-11-2008 06:05 PM #27
      Quote, originally posted by justanotherusername »
      As far as I know Zeta was intended as a world chassis from the very start, unlike the chassis that was adapted for the GTO. I can remember reading about the dozens of US engineers they had sent down under to assist with the development.

      Letting the Aussies lead on the RWD stuff is a great idea IMO. Like BMW they never stopped doing RWD cars when everyone else decided FWD was the way of the future. They have the experience to get the job done without a doubt.

      Wait a minute, buddy!

      Are you saying that GM people of one continent can TRAVEL to another continent... and help global projects with global teams?

      Now you're pulling my leg. Why the F would they do that? Next thing you'll tell me they took one of those new fangled aereo-plane things to get there.


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      08-11-2008 06:12 PM #28
      Quote, originally posted by justanotherusername »


      Yeah it might have turned out to be a real turd like the Vette, Solstice, and Cobalt.

      The Cobalt platform was developed by Opel
      The Corvette is a focused sports car so it better handle well...on the track anyway.


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      08-11-2008 06:22 PM #29
      Quote, originally posted by RogueOne »

      I know it's a global economy, but the venerable Camaro being built on an outsourced chassis doesn't fit right with me.

      ...well I guess it gets worse for you because the Camaro will be assembled in Canada (GM's Oshawa plant).


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      08-11-2008 06:40 PM #30
      Quote, originally posted by justanotherusername »


      Yeah it might have turned out to be a real turd like the Vette, Solstice, and Cobalt.

      Two out of three are Opel bud... probably not a a good argument.

      The new ZR-1 really is the first car an american car company hasn't gone half-assed on in quite a long time and i've got respect for that

      The big three really invested too much in trucks and SUVs which doesn't lead R&D down the path of performance. Holden on the other hand has been making sick FR cars for a while now

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      08-11-2008 06:53 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by chamade »

      The Cobalt platform was developed by Opel
      The Corvette is a focused sports car so it better handle well...on the track anyway.

      Quote, originally posted by BluMagic »

      Two out of three are Opel bud... probably not a a good argument.

      The hell they were developed by Opel. The first vehicle to hit the streets on the Delta (Cobalt) platform was the Saturn Ion. The platform wasn't handed off to Europe until 2005. The current Cobalt SS damn sure wasn't tuned by Opel, and it's one of the fastest street legal FWD cars on the planet.

      The Opel GT is a rebadged Saturn, NOT the other way around. That chassis was developed by GM in the US, not in Europe.

      Quote, originally posted by BluMagic »

      The new ZR-1 really is the first car an american car company hasn't gone half-assed on in quite a long time and i've got respect for that

      The regular Vette and Z06 have mopped the floors with anything in their price range for years, maybe even decades.


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      08-11-2008 07:08 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by justanotherusername »

      The hell they were developed by Opel. The first vehicle to hit the streets on the Delta (Cobalt) platform was the Saturn Ion. The platform wasn't handed off to Europe until 2005. The current Cobalt SS damn sure wasn't tuned by Opel, and it's one of the fastest street legal FWD cars on the planet.

      Did you also copy/paste your research papers from wikipedia?
      Do some real research on the development/roots of "delta", "ecotec" etc., then come back.


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      08-11-2008 07:10 PM #33
      Quote, originally posted by chamade »

      Did you also copy/paste your research papers from wikipedia?
      Do some real research on the development/roots of "delta", "ecotec" etc., then come back.


      Well since you're the expert, why don't you post up some proof for us? Either way, Opel is STILL a part of GM so I don't see where it makes a lot of different, but the current Cobalt (the fast one) was tuned by Chevy, as is the Camaro, and there's no disputing that.


      Modified by justanotherusername at 4:12 PM 8-11-2008


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      08-11-2008 07:11 PM #34
      Quote, originally posted by chamade »

      Did you also copy/paste your research papers from wikipedia?
      Do some real research on the development/roots of "delta", "ecotec" etc., then come back.

      Suspension tuning is primarily done by the local GM arm. The Cobalt also benefited from direct intervention by Bob Lutz, who last I checked, is primarily working out of Detroit.

      [edit: oh, and AKA, remember what we said the last time about Delta II? Well, precisely, and ditto. ]



      Modified by xdre at 7:16 PM 8-11-2008


    35. 08-11-2008 07:13 PM #35
      I just realized the new Camaro has the same power mirror control as my Saab 9-5.

      Carry on.


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