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    Thread: check out this compressor map and tell me what you think

    1. 08-13-2008 08:07 PM #1
      its the red one of a Holset HE351CW it has .65AR and can be found off a 5.9l cummings diesel and can be bought for around 300$

      so for the money im thinking about trying one out, plus i think i can get one of these MYSELF for prolly 100 bux

      how do you guys think the spool and power would be?

      from my math this turbo flows roughly a max of 57 lb/min so its in between a 3076 and a 35r

      that has really peaked my interest since i figured that out


      Modified by 50trim S at 5:24 PM 8-13-2008


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      08-14-2008 10:31 AM #2
      I plugged your map into spreadsheet I developed a while back. As you can see, the Holset won't develop any boost until 4100 RPMs. Efficiency drops off fairly quickly above 6000 RPMs with estimated peak efficiency between 5800 and 6200 RPMs (map does not have efficiency lines). It's a poor choice because it was developed for large diesel with limited top end (<5500 RPMs). See map below with RPMs overlaid.

      EDIT: Converted all maps to lbs./min. for easier comparison.

      Here is the Holset matched to the original 5.9L assuming twin-turbo setup (actually it's the 5.9L TDI V12 b/c I didn't have cummings diesel on file). Notice the nice powerband from 2500 RPMs to 5000+.

      EDIT: Heres the 2871 matched to the 1.8T for comparison (largest Garrett turbo I have on file). Notice peak efficiency at approx. 4600 RPMs. Also the TD05H-16G (from the Mitsu. Evo III) with peak eff. at approx. 5200 RPMs.




      Modified by mainstayinc at 12:10 PM 8-14-2008

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

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      08-14-2008 02:12 PM #3
      The 3071R. Peak efficiency from 3000 RPMs at P2/P1=1.4 to 5200 RPMs at P2/P1 = 2.2. Interestingly, peak efficiency improves above this point to 4200 RPMs at P2/P1 = 4.0 (follow the dotted line up and to the right). Nice turbo capable of 450 to 500 hp with decent powerband for the 1.8T.

      EDIT: Added GT3076R for comparison.




      Modified by mainstayinc at 11:36 AM 8-14-2008

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

    4. 08-15-2008 03:54 PM #4
      other opinions please

    5. 08-15-2008 04:14 PM #5
      thanks for the graph analysis, I haven't seen a map modded with 1.8T spec RPM ranges before.

      50trim, that pretty much answered your question didn't it? You can see exactly what it's doing, and how it compares to other turbos...

      Personally, if I could get one for cheap I'd rock it, it should make good HP on a stock rod engine (considering higher HP to TQ ratio). Plus non-BB is a plus in that case.

      ░░░░░░ .. R13 5
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      08-15-2008 04:44 PM #6
      Here's the map for the disco potato in case anyone is interested.

      I have other maps with RPMs for the K03 and K04 and others garretts if interested.

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

    7. 08-15-2008 04:50 PM #7
      id like to see how a gt35r compares to the holset he351 if thats possible

    8. 08-15-2008 04:51 PM #8
      I'd be interested in the K03 (Sport?) and K04 maps! Those are hard enough to find on their own as it is.

      These maps should actually go in the FAQ, me thinks.

      ░░░░░░ .. R13 5
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      08-15-2008 04:58 PM #9
      Here's the maps you requested. I am not sure if this is the K03 or K03 Sport.

      Here is the K04-20. I will check to see if I have K04-01, since I know there are quite a few people on this forum that use this turbo.

      Note: All maps are converted to lbs./min for easy comparison.

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

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      08-15-2008 04:59 PM #10
      I'll have to grab that map (GT35R) and see what I can do. I will try to post before end of the day.

      EDIT: I can also show analysis for stroked or bored out motor. Just give me the numbers (i.e.: 92.8mm stroke, 83mm bore etc.).


      Modified by mainstayinc at 5:32 PM 8-15-2008

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

    11. 08-15-2008 05:02 PM #11
      "Quote, originally posted by Blackfin »
      I believe, but am not sure, that the K03-2075 would be the K03S with its 38mm inducer and the -1870 and -2072 are the "lesser" K03 models with 33mm and 36mm inducers. "

      that map does look pretty pathetic for the K03. lol

      Edit, here's a website, they have a few 3K-B maps...
      http://www.not2fast.com/turbo/maps/


      Modified by -Khaos- at 10:06 PM 8-15-2008

      ░░░░░░ .. R13 5
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      08-15-2008 05:18 PM #12
      Yeah. Pretty pathetic compared to the other turbos. It's only capable of about 21 lbs/min or about 200 hp. But... great spool.
      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

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      08-15-2008 05:20 PM #13
      Here's the GT35R. You'd really have to bore or stroke your 1.8T to get the most out of this turbo. Alternatively, you could raise your rev limiter. I will try to overlay both maps and post when I get a chance.

      EDIT: Isolated and cleaned up Holset map. Overlay of Holset and GT35R to come...




      Modified by mainstayinc at 3:03 PM 8-15-2008

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

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      08-15-2008 06:16 PM #14
      Comparison to come.




      Modified by mainstayinc at 3:30 PM 8-15-2008

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

    15. 08-15-2008 06:18 PM #15
      Quote, originally posted by mainstayinc »
      EDIT: Isolated and cleaned up Holset map. Overlay of Holset and GT35R to come...


      Modified by mainstayinc at 3:03 PM 8-15-2008

      i'd really like to see those 2 overlayed

      they look very similar and for 300 bux that holset is a GREAT alternative

      don't you guys think?

      i think that according to the maps the holset looks better


      Modified by 50trim S at 3:20 PM 8-15-2008


    16. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
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      08-15-2008 06:20 PM #16
      Mainstay, could you do this compressor map please? I've been interested in this turbo...it's only 850 bucks new:
      GT2860R not RS


    17. 08-15-2008 06:24 PM #17
      Quote, originally posted by 20aeman »
      Mainstay, could you do this compressor map please? I've been interested in this turbo...it's only 850 bucks new:
      GT2860R not RS

      look at an APR stg3 kit and you'll see how that turbo does on this motor


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      08-15-2008 06:28 PM #18
      the GT28R is not a GT2860R... EDIT: GT28R = GT2560R


      Modified by NOLA_VDubber at 5:29 PM 8-15-2008

    19. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
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      08-15-2008 06:30 PM #19
      Quote, originally posted by 50trim S »

      look at an APR stg3 kit and you'll see how that turbo does on this motor

      Haha, it's actually pretty confusing but the GT28r (apr stage 3) is actually a GT2560R. In comparison to this turbo, it can probably flow 10-15lbs per minute more...but it doesn't like the higher pressure ratios like the 2860R.

      The 2860R is a factory replacement/upgrade for Skyline GTRs.


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      08-15-2008 06:31 PM #20
      nola beat me to it.

    21. 08-15-2008 06:34 PM #21
      my bad

      but the turbo you listed will still be pretty close to the stg3 kit minus about 20 whp from the math i figured


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      08-15-2008 06:36 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by 20aeman »
      nola beat me to it.

      muhahahahahaha

      *twirls sinister moustache*


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      08-15-2008 06:38 PM #23
      Here is the GT28R (aka GT2560R). This is the same turbo which is currently being delivered to my house from California (Atp turbo). I got it with the T31 turbine housing and external wastegate. I just finished porting and polishing my ATP clone manifold two days ago. I ended up in the emergency room this morning before work because I had a chip of iron in my right eye.

      Here is the map for the GT2860R (not the RS Disco Potato) in case this is the one you mean.




      Modified by mainstayinc at 4:30 PM 12-12-2008

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

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      08-15-2008 06:39 PM #24
      I'm still working on this overlay. It's a bit tricky b/c you have to match axes.
      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

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      08-15-2008 06:41 PM #25
      Quote, originally posted by mainstayinc »
      I ended up in the emergency room this morning before work because I had a freakin chip of iron in my right eye.

      Happened to my brother doin the same thing...damn you die grinders! The piece in his eye actually started to rust


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      08-15-2008 06:43 PM #26
      Yeah. My eye started to rust too! No kidding. The doctor had to polish my cornia b/c of the rust. So, I gues I ended up getting myself ported and polished!


      Modified by mainstayinc at 4:30 PM 12-12-2008
      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

    27. 08-15-2008 06:46 PM #27
      looks as if the most either of those will flow to redline is 15psi
      not much B in that BT if you ask me

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      08-15-2008 06:49 PM #28
      Hey Nola. I forgot to mention that I also gasket matched my ATP clone mani to the T31 turbine housing. Check this out.

      I bet you haven't seen such a nice outlet on an ATP mani before. The stock outlet had a weird shape to it, so I had to take the die grinder and some carbide bits to open it up a bit.

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

    29. Banned 20aeman's Avatar
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      08-15-2008 07:01 PM #29
      Quote, originally posted by 50trim S »
      looks as if the most either of those will flow to redline is 15psi
      not much B in that BT if you ask me

      Yeah, they aren't the greatest big turbos, but they are most definitely the cheapest GT ball bearings you can buy.

      The 2560r is 750 bucks, the 2860r is 850. Only reason I'm stuck with the 2860R is that the turbine blade is the appropriate diameter for my atp eliminator housing..otherwise, I would have used the 2560r.


      Mainstay thanks for the mapping buddy, could you do just one more for me please?

      2860R-5...same price, different map:


    30. 08-15-2008 07:04 PM #30
      i think that one looks the best to me BY FAR

      im more interested in something bigget hence the holset that flows 63lbs/min and can be had for 300 bux slightly used


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      08-15-2008 07:15 PM #31
      Here is the comparison betw. the Holset and the GT35R. Conclusion: the GT35R has a little better spoolup between 12 and 19 psi. Otherwise, the Holset is better than the GT35R in all other categories.




      Modified by mainstayinc at 4:00 PM 8-18-2008

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

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      08-15-2008 07:20 PM #32
      Quote, originally posted by 20aeman »
      Mainstay thanks for the mapping buddy, could you do just one more for me please?

      2860R-5...same price, different map:

      Sure. I'm working on your map as we speak.


      Modified by mainstayinc at 4:27 PM 8-15-2008

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

    33. 08-15-2008 07:23 PM #33
      i really want to see how that holset does on a 1.8t

      i may have to find out

      so according to this map it should make 12-15psi by 4000rpms?


      Modified by 50trim S at 4:25 PM 8-15-2008


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      08-15-2008 07:34 PM #34
      Quote, originally posted by 50trim S »
      so according to this map it should make 12-15psi by 4000rpms?

      It's hard to tell b/c the surge line (left side of map) is so steep. Since the Holset spools up around 4000 RPMs (at least according to calculations), you are going from no boost to max. boost within a few hundred RPMs. So, you could be making say 6 psi of boost at 3900 RPMs to 30+ by 4200 RPMs. It's hard to predict from the maps exactly how your car will respond to the turbo.

      GTX2867R Turbo with 0.48 A/R T31 Exhaust Housing, R32 Throttle Body, Passenger-side SEM, Engine: JE Pistons (9.5:1 CR), ALH 95.5mm Crankshaft, IE H-Beam Connecting Rods, ARP Bolts; ECU: Unitronics 630 BT File; Exhaust: 2.5in QTP Exhaust Cutout; Drivetrain: APTuning 02A/02J Race Gearset, 3.389 Final Drive, Pinion Girdle, Peloquin LSD, Bully Performance Stage 3 Kevlar Clutch. Death and Journey Into Hell.

    35. 08-15-2008 07:41 PM #35
      vewy intewesting.

      Someone needs to try this out. What's the hotside bolt pattern?

      When I go BT I don't plan on doing rods, so it's either a small t3S60 with broad power, or a big turbo like the holset to make more HP, while keeping rod breaking torque down.

      ░░░░░░ .. R13 5
      ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓ .. ╚╬╬╝
      ░░░░░░ .... 24

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