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    Thread: MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap

    1. Member elRey's Avatar
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      06-17-2009 02:45 PM #141
      Quote, originally posted by duke_seb »
      I actually have 1.8t rods and they look the same as the 9a ones.... Any reason I shouldn't use them I was told they are fine that they were just lighter

      AEB rods or other 1.8T rods (AWD/AWW/AWP/APH. etc)?

      AEB rods = 9a 16v rods.

      all other 1.8T rods = AZG/BEW rods (for this purpose).


    2. Member duke_seb's Avatar
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      06-17-2009 03:45 PM #142
      Well my 1.8t rods will work I realize now what u mean by tapered at the top after I compared them.... Problem I'm having now though is I have 19mm wrist pin holes and 20mm wrist pins I just ordered new wrist pin bushings at 20 a piece
      :bow Old Vortex

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      Really Volvo? A failure of system that is supposed to save the inattentive would have been noticed by a real inattentive driver?
      Really?

    3. Member duke_seb's Avatar
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      06-17-2009 07:34 PM #143
      ok i sorted out my wrist pin problem.... just wondering something on a totally different topic.... the mcmaster headbolts are they they same specs as factory... do i torque them the same as standard bolts?.... are they stretch bolts?
      :bow Old Vortex

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      Really Volvo? A failure of system that is supposed to save the inattentive would have been noticed by a real inattentive driver?
      Really?

    4. Member elRey's Avatar
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      06-17-2009 08:37 PM #144
      Quote, originally posted by duke_seb »
      ok i sorted out my wrist pin problem.... just wondering something on a totally different topic.... the mcmaster headbolts are they they same specs as factory... do i torque them the same as standard bolts?.... are they stretch bolts?

      I torqued them the same as OEM. I don't know if they are stretch. I wouldn't think so. They are 12.9 class bolts.


    5. Member duke_seb's Avatar
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      06-17-2009 10:52 PM #145
      but this is what OEM says

      Tightening torque
      • Cylinder head to cylinder block
      (stretch bolts - always replace)
      stage I 40 Nm (30 ft-Ib)
      stage II additional % turn (90°)
      stage III additional % turn (90°

      what did you do?

      :bow Old Vortex

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      Really Volvo? A failure of system that is supposed to save the inattentive would have been noticed by a real inattentive driver?
      Really?

    6. Member elRey's Avatar
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      06-18-2009 01:08 AM #146
      Quote, originally posted by duke_seb »
      but this is what OEM says

      Tightening torque
      • Cylinder head to cylinder block
      (stretch bolts - always replace)
      stage I 40 Nm (30 ft-Ib)
      stage II additional % turn (90°)
      stage III additional % turn (90°

      what did you do?

      I did that.


    7. Member duke_seb's Avatar
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      06-18-2009 03:23 AM #147
      Good then they are stretch bolts
      :bow Old Vortex

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      Really Volvo? A failure of system that is supposed to save the inattentive would have been noticed by a real inattentive driver?
      Really?

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      06-23-2009 07:13 AM #148
      the mcmaster bolts ARE NOT stretch bolts!

      they do not have the spiral fluting which allow the bolt to stretch. you risk deforming the headbolt seats or worse if you do the aditional turns.

      I'd torque em how ever ARP head studs ar torqued

      that said I need to read through this. I'm excited my 16v may be able to live past my a1-a2 chassis

      '87 rocco ,ABA16VitbT, 9a pistons, dual exhaust cams, megasquirt v2.2 2-extra, E85,
      volvo TD0-14T turbo, celica intercooler, corolla manifold, gsxr itbs, beer can, staged injection, maf.
      exhaust cam mod info: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2508013

    9. Member Shifty's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 11:26 AM #149
      Quote, originally posted by weeblebiker »
      the mcmaster bolts ARE NOT stretch bolts!

      they do not have the spiral fluting which allow the bolt to stretch. you risk deforming the headbolt seats or worse if you do the aditional turns.

      I'd torque em how ever ARP head studs ar torqued

      Good to know, thanks.

      I do have one question before putting this thing together: what's the compression ratio?

      Check out MrsShifty's 16v MkIV Build!

      Robert Lackey - Service Manager, Fowler Volkswagen of Norman

    10. Member vwpat's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 11:29 AM #150
      10.8:1 advertised, same as a 9A but may vary slightly due to the different headgasket.

    11. Member elRey's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 11:37 AM #151
      Issam Abed now offers ARP studs for this application.

      I've been running 15psi daily on the 12.9 class bolts (your mileage may vary), but when ever I do tear down the engine, I'll be calling Issam.


    12. Member Shifty's Avatar
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      07-21-2009 02:46 PM #152
      Quote, originally posted by vwpat »
      10.8:1 advertised, same as a 9A but may vary slightly due to the different headgasket.

      Great, thank you.

      Check out MrsShifty's 16v MkIV Build!

      Robert Lackey - Service Manager, Fowler Volkswagen of Norman

    13. Member elRey's Avatar
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      09-29-2009 12:48 PM #153

    14. Member thatcrazylaxdude's Avatar
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      09-30-2009 03:15 PM #154
      Great build and write up!
      Ain't nobody dope as me, I'm dressed, so fresh, so clean, so fresh and so clean clean.

      '84 GTI Revival


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      10-06-2009 10:15 PM #155
      If i have a chip or a reflash on the ecu then i do the swap will be safe or i need to reprogram de ecu?


      Modified by sauron18 at 7:15 AM 10-8-2009

    16. Member elRey's Avatar
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      10-16-2009 01:38 PM #156
      Quote, originally posted by sauron18 »
      If i have a chip or a reflash on the ecu then i do the swap will be safe or i need to reprogram de ecu?

      You'll be safe.


    17. Member Shifty's Avatar
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      10-18-2009 06:26 PM #157
      Alright guys I'm on the home stretch with the wife's build!

      A couple questions:

      -It looks like you have an adapter of some sort on the dizzy for the CPS plug? Am I mistaken? I don't have my dizzy yet, it should be here next week, I'm just trying to plan ahead...

      -What plug wires and coil were used? 16 wires right? Somehow I either missed that or forgot.

      Check out MrsShifty's 16v MkIV Build!

      Robert Lackey - Service Manager, Fowler Volkswagen of Norman

    18. Member elRey's Avatar
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      10-18-2009 09:13 PM #158
      yes, 16v wires. Talyor wires #77282 from US Autoparts . stock mk4 8v coil pack. However, I had to make a small offset bracket so the coil pack would clear the head.

      for the CPS I made an adapter /pigtail. One end from a mk2 dizzy connector & the other end from a spare mk4 CPS.




      Modified by elRey at 9:19 PM 10-18-2009


    19. Member elRey's Avatar
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      10-19-2009 02:55 PM #159
      One more thing that I may have left out... 1.8T water pipe is needed. The 2.0L 8v one will interfere with the head.

    20. Member Shifty's Avatar
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      10-19-2009 06:17 PM #160
      Quote, originally posted by elRey »
      for the CPS I made an adapter /pigtail. One end from a mk2 dizzy connector & the other end from a spare mk4 CPS.

      I was afraid of that. Wiring is not my forte. Anything tricky about that? (i.e., Which pin goes to which wire?)

      When you say 1.8T water pipe, you are referring to the hard metal one correct?

      Thanks for the replies elRey.

      Check out MrsShifty's 16v MkIV Build!

      Robert Lackey - Service Manager, Fowler Volkswagen of Norman

    21. Member Shifty's Avatar
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      11-01-2009 10:53 AM #161
      Quote, originally posted by Shifty »

      Anything tricky about that? (i.e., Which pin goes to which wire?)

      Ours is ready to run, just need to figure this plug out and get the fuel and vacuum connected.

      Check out MrsShifty's 16v MkIV Build!

      Robert Lackey - Service Manager, Fowler Volkswagen of Norman

    22. Member elRey's Avatar
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      11-01-2009 12:52 PM #162
      I'll check the pin# <-> pin# today when I regap my plugs

    23. Member elRey's Avatar
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      11-01-2009 02:26 PM #163
      For the CPS <-> dizzy hall sensor connector:

      2.0 pin <-> 16v pin:

      1 <-> 3
      2 <-> 2
      3 <-> 1


      It's in reverse order.


    24. Member Shifty's Avatar
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      11-01-2009 03:16 PM #164
      You're the man.

      I am trying to get the pin out of the distributor shaft today... not working. Is there a way to get the hall sender off there without removing the shaft?!

      Check out MrsShifty's 16v MkIV Build!

      Robert Lackey - Service Manager, Fowler Volkswagen of Norman

    25. Member Shifty's Avatar
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      11-06-2009 10:12 AM #165
      OK I'm ready to put the wheel on there. You don't happen to have a pic of the relation of the notches before cutting the shaft?
      Check out MrsShifty's 16v MkIV Build!

      Robert Lackey - Service Manager, Fowler Volkswagen of Norman

    26. Member elRey's Avatar
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      11-06-2009 04:47 PM #166
      I guess you're asking how the 1.8T wheel is postioned (turned) in relation to the dizzy shaft/cam key. All the pictures I have are posted in this thread. The best advise I can give is to

      1) find a mk4 2.0L or 1.8T and look at it with motor set at TDC and note which way the trigger wheel turns. Determine without a shodow of a doubt which window's edge is TDC at the hall sensor.

      2) mount the dizzy so you can adjust it both ways if needed. set motor AND head to TDC and note which way the dizzy turns. Then hold the 1.8T trigger wheel against the dizzy so that the previously determined TDC window edge is in the center of the dizzy hall sensor.

      2) mark the 1.8T wheel and the dizzy shaft.

      Done. (besides doing the work )



      Modified by elRey at 4:49 PM 11-6-2009


    27. Member Shifty's Avatar
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      11-06-2009 05:15 PM #167
      Quote, originally posted by elRey »
      I guess you're asking how the 1.8T wheel is postioned (turned) in relation to the dizzy shaft/cam key. All the pictures I have are posted in this thread. The best advise I can give is to

      1) find a mk4 2.0L or 1.8T and look at it with motor set at TDC and note which way the trigger wheel turns. Determine without a shodow of a doubt which window's edge is TDC at the hall sensor.

      2) mount the dizzy so you can adjust it both ways if needed. set motor AND head to TDC and note which way the dizzy turns. Then hold the 1.8T trigger wheel against the dizzy so that the previously determined TDC window edge is in the center of the dizzy hall sensor.

      2) mark the 1.8T wheel and the dizzy shaft.

      Done. (besides doing the work )

      Modified by elRey at 4:49 PM 11-6-2009

      Awesome bro. I once again appreciate it. Hopefully I an get the thing figured out and fire the car up before next week. Just need to get the vac lines and distributor installed and she's rollin!

      Check out MrsShifty's 16v MkIV Build!

      Robert Lackey - Service Manager, Fowler Volkswagen of Norman

    28. Member duke_seb's Avatar
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      11-13-2009 07:01 AM #168
      hey rey are you using the coolant flange on the front of the head or do you have it blocked off.... i was under the impressiong that coolant would flow in the side of the head and out the flange on the block correct me if im wrong... I have it blocked off right now but i cant see from your pictures what you did..... I was sure i read in one of your posts at one point it was blocked off
      :bow Old Vortex

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      Really Volvo? A failure of system that is supposed to save the inattentive would have been noticed by a real inattentive driver?
      Really?

    29. Member elRey's Avatar
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      11-13-2009 09:51 AM #169

    30. Member duke_seb's Avatar
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      11-13-2009 05:57 PM #170
      [QUOTE=elRey]I guess you're asking how the 1.8T wheel is postioned (turned) in relation to the dizzy shaft/cam key. All the pictures I have are posted in this thread. The best advise I can give is to

      1) find a mk4 2.0L or 1.8T and look at it with motor set at TDC and note which way the trigger wheel turns. Determine without a shodow of a doubt which window's edge is TDC at the hall sensor.

      2) mount the dizzy so you can adjust it both ways if needed. set motor AND head to TDC and note which way the dizzy turns. Then hold the 1.8T trigger wheel against the dizzy so that the previously determined TDC window edge is in the center of the dizzy hall sensor.

      2) mark the 1.8T wheel and the dizzy shaft.

      Done. (besides doing the work <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://is.rely.net/2-64-38733-l-006e1ozlIle2NBIL2h5Dw.gif" BORDER="0">)

      Modified by elRey at 4:49 PM 11-6-2009[/QUOTE

      interesting if thats how you do it why not pull off the 2L one from the inside of the cam and then mount it to the outside of the new cam and then use the 2L Sensor by making a bracket?

      im going to be looking for a different way i dont really like the dizzy way..... im hoping to block that side off

      as for the 2.5L coil packs i went to a buddy at the dealer and i think i know know what is going on..... the 2.5L ones are a little longer and a little skinnier right?..... looks like it.... what im wondering is if they will fit in between the intake runners?

      also with that tensioner do you know which one to use apparently there are like 3 I saw one that required an aditional piece in order to lock in place you wouldnt have a part number or more detail on it would you?

      :bow Old Vortex

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      Really Volvo? A failure of system that is supposed to save the inattentive would have been noticed by a real inattentive driver?
      Really?

    31. Member duke_seb's Avatar
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      11-13-2009 06:02 PM #171
      Quote, originally posted by elRey »
      One more thing that I may have left out... 1.8T water pipe is needed. The 2.0L 8v one will interfere with the head.

      just to let you know i didnt need this..... I acutally got one and then it agravated me so i didnt use it......

      that one stupid bolt on the back of the block that holds the piece in I couldnt get it out so i just cut the bracket and then adjusted it a little down and then rewelded it back up again..... it is only about a 1/4" off

      :bow Old Vortex

      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      Really Volvo? A failure of system that is supposed to save the inattentive would have been noticed by a real inattentive driver?
      Really?

    32. Member Shifty's Avatar
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      11-13-2009 06:18 PM #172
      LOL Man I wish you were closer to me... I'd pay you to help me on mine.

      So I'm trying to get the final bits in order - namely vac lines, fuel lines, and the dizzy. Dizzy's no problem, pretty confident on that. Fuel lines are OK too. Vac lines might require some trial and error... Now I see that Beetle oil cap riser, which I thought was purely for convinience, and I notice it looks like it's a vent hose. Am I right? Is there any way around using that part?

      Sorry Rey, I'm just excited about getting ours running and I trust your advice.

      Check out MrsShifty's 16v MkIV Build!

      Robert Lackey - Service Manager, Fowler Volkswagen of Norman

    33. Member elRey's Avatar
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      11-23-2009 05:13 PM #173
      Sorry for the lack of responses. This thread must have dropped off my recent topic list.

      for modifying the coolant pipe to make it work.

      I explored the 2.0L trigger wheel on the back of the 1.8T cam gear. The issue is that the 16v head will need some machining to fit the 2.0L hall sensor under the 1.8T cam gear. I didn't know how much material is in that area of the head. The modified dizzy seemed to be a much more straight forward mod that I could do myself. Other options I considered was fab'ing a custom bracket to hold the trigger wheel and be able to bolt the 1.8T hall sensor housing. This would require design time and access to a machine shop which was very limited to me.

      For the New Beetle Valve cover breather... You need to vent the crankcase. Another option would be to vent it from the oil filter bracket like on the 1.8Ts (they use both).


    34. 01-21-2010 06:13 PM #174
      Quote, originally posted by TightDub »
      Missed the build but this is awesome

      Contemplating this swap on the beetle Rey. Lining up my pieces slowly..I talked to Scott(Assist Motorsoprts) about it your name came up quick... he spoke highly of your skills which is a compliment from him.

      Truth: Bags And RS wont get u friends...but being a user will lose u a few.

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      01-21-2010 08:29 PM #175
      elRey, how much hp and torq are you making after the turbo installed?

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