Have at it folks. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
Please only post answers in this thread.
8v Engine FAQ
8v Engine Listing
Modified by The_Hamster at 5:06 PM 8-27-2008
Modified by Coupe_88 at 4:41 AM 9-12-2003
Dual outlet manifold, dual downpipe , and high flow cat install.
-My notes on this experience.
Digifant Idle help
-idle switch adjustment mainly, a commonly overlooked step
Engine mount replacement
-Right rear, notes from my experience
Timing Belt replacement
Water Pump replacement
Various useful VW info
Modified by Coupe_88 at 5:05 AM 9-12-2003
Modified by Coupe_88 at 5:15 AM 9-12-2003
I need help right now. I need to rebuild my car in 10 minutes or my life is over. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can ask...
Acronyms & Abbreviations
A few acronyms for those struggling to understand posts in the archives etc:
ABA - 2litre 8v block that debuted on mk3 Golfs amongst others.
AFM - An airflow meter. Reports the quantity of air entering the engine to the ECU.
CIS - Continuous INjection fuelling system - fuel injectors run in continuous cycle whilst engine is running.
CTS - Coolant temperature sensor. Blue plug on water pipe on fornt of cylinder head.
digi - Digifant Electronic fuel injection system as used on later mk2 8v golfs, amongst others.
digi1 - two varieties of digifant referred to as 'digi'. First, California-only emissions-tight digifant version. Second, digi1 as used in G60 engines.
digi2 - later released digifant system utilising VAM, most digifants are digi2.
ISV- Idle Stabilisation Valve, electronically controlled valve used to stabilise idle under ancilliary load. Cylindircal object on top of rocker cover with one plug and two hoses connected to it.
ECU - Electronic Control Unit, manages electrnoic fuel injections etc. Metal box with heatsink, usually under left hand corner of raintray cover in engine bay.
EFI - electronically controlled fuel injections system. As used on digifant.
ICM - ignition control module. sits on top of ECU and controls ignition.
ICU - ignition control unit, as above.
ITBs - Individual throttle bodies. A throttle body for each cylinder, as opposed to the single throttle body attached to a common intake plenum used on most EFI setups.
MFI - mechanicallly controlled fuel injection. As used on post-carb, pre-digifant 8v engines.
O2 - oxygen sensor in exhaust system that helps report lean/rich condition of engine to ECU.
OEM - Original Equipment Manufacturer. OEM items are items that came "stock" from VW.
VAM - vane air meter. A type of AFM that utilises a flap spring-loaded against engine load to report air intake quantity.
IM me if you have any others you think would help people, or spotted a mistake above
Where can I find basic information about Digifant fuel injection?
Where can I find Digifant technical documentation (for advanced questions)?
What is the difference between 3A and ABA blocks?
what is an ABA block?
What other engine could I swap in? (Gasp! 8v heresy!)
What sort of power can an ABA block swap make?
what's the best 8v head?
Can I re-use my head bolts?
What flows better: counterflow or crossflow head?
How can I tell a solid head from a hydro one?
will a 16v head fit an 8v block?
how do i go about replacing my clutch? (second how-to)
Can I use a 16v clutch and pressure plate on my 8v?
How do I fix my digifant's erratic idling?
Where is my ISV located?
Can I clean my ISV?
Do I need an ISV?
How can I remove my ISV?
How do I find a vacuum leak?
What is the knock sensor and how does it work?
Can I swap out or improve my intake manifold?
What the heck is the plastic thing under the gas pedal?
How can I nudge my 8v through an emissions test?
what OEM bolt-ons are there for the 8v?
Where can I get a cheap o2 sensor?
Any tips on fixing my sloopy shifter?
If anyone can improve on the answers to these questions, just post in the relevant linked thread so the info is there to people who follow that link from the FAQ
Modified by DanielAdams at 1:15 PM 11-6-2003
Modified by DanielAdams at 5:56 PM 3-19-2004
Always a good explination gearhead...
For those of you runing digi II, you can upgrade your fuel injectors to G60. Also the G60 FPR is an upgrade. These make a nice addition to a low boost application.
For all JH motor owners... Get the cam from a 1.5 or 1.6 liter motor... nice idle, but more duration and lift... great factory upgrade...
020 Transmission Specifications Codes located at bottom of Bell Housing
CODE R&P 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Overall Flanges Switch Mount
2H 3.94 3,45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.59 90mm Large Stud
2Y 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.34 100mm Small Both*
4K 3.94 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.46 90mm Large Stud
4S 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.96 100mm Large Hole
4T 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.75 90mm Large Stud
4Y 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.34 90mm Large Stud
6G 3.65 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.59 90mm Large Stud
7A 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.80 90mm Large Stud
7D 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.25 0.91 0.71 2.80 90mm Large Stud
7G 3.65 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.32 90mm Large Stud
8A 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.75 90mm Large Stud
9A 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.27 100mm Large Hole
ACD 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.27 100mm Small Both*
ACH 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.96 90mm Large Hole
ACL 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.75 100mm Large Hole
ACN 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.75 100mm Large Hole
AEN 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.27 100mm Small Both*
AGB* 3.67 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.34 100mm Large Both*
AGS 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.96 100mm Small Hole
AMC 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.80 2.94 100mm Small Hole
AON 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.75 100mm Small Hole
AOP 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.96 100mm Small Hole
APW 3.67 3.45 1.75 1.37 0.97 0.85 3.20 90mm Large Hole
ASF 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.37 1.03 0.75 2.75 100mm Small Hole
ATH 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 2.75 100mm Small Hole
AUG 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.27 100mm Small Hole
AVX 4.25 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.75 3.19 90mm Small Hole
AWY 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.89 3.51 100mm Small Hole
CHE 3.67 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.80 2.94 100mm Small Hole
FD 3.89 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.54 90mm Small Stud
FF 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.76 2.96 90mm Large Stud
FH 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.76 90mm Large Stud
FJ 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.76 90mm Large Stud
FK 3.89 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.54 90mm Small Stud
FM 3.89 3.45 2.12 1.44 1.13 0.91 3.54 90mm Small Stud
FN 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.91 0.71 2.76 90mm Large Stud
FO 3.89 3.45 1.94 1.29 0.97 0.76 2.96 90mm Small Stud
there are the 020 trans codes...
More info [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
where's all the CIS help [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
I know that all of you know this, but...
Cut out the bottom, headlight side, and fender side of your airbox, with a K&N drop in... maybe 5 hp at the top... maybe.
Replace your throttle body with an audi 5000, or A2 golf jetta CIS car. larger butterflys, more air...
Get a cam from a digi 2 GTI, it has more lift and duration than yours, a little stock upgrade, especially if your poor...
Replace your airtube with painted PVC pipe (the white stuff) in a 3" diameter. I know it sound ghetto, but would you rather spend $10, or $90 from ABD???
All the A1 CIS cars, get an A2 cis fuel distributer, the air side is larger for better flow.
Scirocco owners... buy the Autotech, or make your own Alternator wire upgrade. it really helps, especially with a system and better lighting. i never had a dead battery with this upgrade.
Speaking of alt. upgrades, most if not all 8v owners can upgrade to the 120 amp audi alternator, but i don't know how... someone help please.
Oh yea one more thing... i learned this the hard way... ANY TIME YOU BUY A CAR... RIP THE OILPAN OFF AND CHECK THE OIL SUMP TUBE!!!!!!! i roasted my german spec rocco this way... just buy a gasket, and change the oil, but clean out the tube to be on the safe side...
how do i make my car fast i have a 1992 golf 4 door 1.8l 8 v automatica
i got bet my a honda accord 92 auto
Modified by MK2RIDER at 6:27 AM 11-14-2003
Modified by MK2RIDER at 6:29 AM 11-14-2003
Modified by MK2RIDER at 7:20 AM 11-14-2003
Your best bet is to do your homework, learn about engines, and talk to experienced tuners about what works good with other things. definiatly try this question in the forum, G2/J2 forum and you will get better results.
If you're having idle or hesitation problems and nothing has corrected it.......check the collar/flange on the oil dipstick tube. If its cracked/broken/not sealing good it will cause a vacumn leak. Everytime I suggest this to someone thats having idle hesitation problems I get replies like...dude you cant be serious.
Look it up in the Bentley.
Section 5 page 7, Fuel System-Gasoline
Last sentence in paragraph of 3.1 ----- Since proper fuel system operation depends on accurate measurement of the intake air, any unmetered air entering the system via vacumn leaks will cause poor running.
Section 5 page 14 This is for Digifant but probally applies to CIS as well....a vacumn leak is a vacumn leak.
Table D Digifant Troubleshooting....
symptom...Engine idles rough or stalls
Probable cause...a.--Vacumn(intake air) leak
Corrective action...a.---Inspect intake air components for leaking hoses, hose connections, and cracks or other leaks. Check for loose oil fill cap or dip stick If the dip stick collar is cracked...it might as well be loose...its not sealing.
Symptom...Engine misses, hesitates, or stalls under load
Probable cause....Vacumn leak is listed again and the corrective action is the same as above.
Will the oil pump from a JH engine fit in an RV engine?
yes, but the RV is a hydro motor, and the RV oil pump is rated for more, so always get a hydro oil pump, or you will starve your lifters for oil, cause premature failure.
Good to know. Also, are there any issues when putting a JH head on the RV block? Are there any oil jounals that don't line up or stuff like that? I understand that the JH is a solid lifter head, so the only major thing is setting up the valves correctly.
No problem with the internals, but your Fuel injection is going to be a pain. You are going from a digi 2 head to CIS... I am not sure of the process of converting the head to take digi 2, but there are steps to take.
Ok, does anybody know the steps? IIRC, there's something to do with the injectors, shrouds maybe? Can somebody explain the differences?
OK, the good news is that the clutch lever was in fact broken and I got a new one for it.
However, now I have another problem. I accidentaly removed a long, smooth shaft from the upper right hand side of the tranny (like when you're looking straight at the green cap at the end of the tranny) and I can't put it back in 'cause something is on the way. Someone told me this shaft is what holds the gears in the tranny together and when I pulled it, the gears collapsed. He told me the only way to put it back in is to completely remove the tranny, open it up and realign it. Basically, rebuild the tranny.
PLEASE TELL ME THIS ISN'T TRUE.
If I need to remove the tranny, are there any special tools I should get to do the job? Any special tools required to do work inside of the tranny?
Any advice/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Modified by wildvw4 at 8:17 AM 3-25-2004
That depends on which shaft you pulled. Shouldn't this be in the tranny forum, since this isn't specifically about 8V's? Oh well, anyways.
If the shaft that you pulled had a little spring on the end (selector fork rod), then yeah, you're screwed and you'll have to tear down your tranny. If you're lucky, and patient enough, you might get away with just pulling apart the selector shaft itself, and realigning the shift forks from the hole in the top. You'll need some sort of giant allen wrench to take off the end cap on the top front, then carefully slide everything out, since it's spring loaded inside. Of course, you have to take off the shift linkages first.
BUT, if the shaft you pulled was really long and had a ball shaped tip on one side (clutch pushrod), which is the side that presses into the release bearing, then it should be all clear, right up to the pressure plate.
I guess I'm screwed...I pulled the "selector fork rod"
Oh well, I'll have to tear down the tranny.
people, this is meant to be the FAQ, not a regular thread. please do NOT post in this thread with problems! start up a new thread instead.
Ok, so I have decided to list a few facts about turbo charging your 8v powerplant. I have been doing a lot of research on this, and, I know this is the 8v FAQ, but alot of people new to the forum see this thread before they venture into boost. The information in this post is gathered from multiple posts and sites that i have gathered, although nothing is directly plagurized.
Stage 1 8v turbo project: 200 hp
Find a low milage 8.6:1 c/r block, or a set of G60 pistons and rods.
Get yourself a good deal on a G60 head and wiring, with sensors. The g60 had sodium filled valves, and the head, and cam were designed for boost. Make sure to get the intake manifold and throttle body as well, as this will make the easiest set up.
You now need a turbo, and manifold. You can get the manifold from various parts suppliers, EIP, 8vturbo.com, aptuning.com... ebay. Look for killa on the tex, http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1005282 . He can get good brand new turbos, cheap. I will either be buying mine from him, or getting the EIP do it yourself kit. You can also get them from a junk yard. Saab 900's, Ford T-bird turbo coupes, Nissan 300zx's, whatever you can find that has a T-3.
Corrado, metal headgasket. ARP Headsuts. Stage 4 G60 chip. Porsche 944 FPR, Blowoff valve, and intercooler. Plan ahead where everything will bolt up and run.
Next get a set of either G60 or 1.8T plugs. Get a better set of plug wires, although not really neccesary. Look for a manual, or electronic boost controller, and oil lines, and fittings for your turbo lube.
Bolt it together, check for boost leaks, and squeal some tire. I would start out at around 5 to 7 PSI and test the system, before bumping it up to 13 to 17. You will be grinning from ear to ear.
The only thing i think I want to do different is...
I will buy the EIP starter kit for the turbo, manifold, lines, downpipe, and accesories. I will then next buy the SDS standalone managment system, with fuel and spark. Use a 16V block, with G60 rods and pistons. G60 Head, worked. Now I can program my own fuel curve, and ignition curve as well. I can also monitor everything going on with my motor. I would also definatly suggest upgrading to 2.5 inch exhaust, with a high flow cat, and straight through muffler. Turbo cars tend to be quieter that N/A cars... you wont wake up the neighbors.
Here are some links to products I will be buying:
The rest is up to your imagination.
Who Can Play?: 87-92 Golf, GTI, Jetta, Fox, Cariolet & anything else running on Digifant II
16 Valve Digifant II owners, this is a must do mod IMHO. Near stock or heavily moddified, 16Valve engines can really take advantage of this. Whether you know it or not, your 16 Valve has athsma & this is the cure.
The Point: Significant increases in Horsepower & Torque throughout the entire rev range. I'll have some dyno numbers soon. If you're serious about big horsepower and you've done everything else (cam, intake, chip, exhaust) this is the next step. If you didn't catch that, this should be done last.
1. Airflow Meter: (AFM) found on the 85-88 BMW 535i (most common), 635i, & 735i. It's the K Series Engine, a 3.5 Liter SOHC Inline 6.
New AFMs for these cars are expensive, as high as $450+
Used ones are very cheap from $40-$100 (I only paid $60, shipped to my door) & they can be found @ http://www.car-part.com/
Search for 1987 BMW 535i under Airflow Meter
Mine is from a 1987 BMW 535i it's a Bosch Unit.
The part # is: 0280 203 027
Note: Do not use the BMW AFMS found on the 325i, 328e, 525i, 528e etc. these units are the same size as our stock/OEM units. (they'll work fine, they just won't give you anymore power)
Note: Your engine is not going to pull the vacuum of a 3.5 liter 6cyl. Therefor you need to reduce the spring tension to allow your engine to idle properly. (with my 2.0L ABA/1.8 head I found reducing tension 8 clicks to work best) If you're using a 1.8L I assume you'd need to reduce it more.
Their's no wire splicing or cutting involved, it's a straight plug & play deal, it connects using your Factory Connector. [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
2. 3 Inch Intake Piping: cut to desired length, I purchased mine @ Summit Racing Equipment & paid too much.
You'll need atleast 2 feet & 3-4 hose clamps.
AT Sears Hardware, I found 3inch Clothes Dryer Ducting in 2 foot sections for only $4.99 a section & it looks identical to the fancy Summit Racing Tubing I spent $60 on.
Sears also has quick release 4" clamps for only $1.09 a piece.
The stuff shown above is from Wynn Enviromental.
It's used for dust collection in woodworking/metal working.
I'm using it & so far has proved to be durable.
It's extremely affordable at $33.00 for 10' (feet).
3. 3Inch K&N, ITG Racing Filter or other similar style cone air filter.
again I probably paid too much, I bought my K&N @ Summit Racing for $36.
I've replaced my K&N to compliment my cold air intake setup with this lower profile Dome Style Ractive SF400 Filter:
I paid only $25.95 for it at Autotoys & it has a built in velocity stack & washable reusable filter.
4. Larger Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR) depending on your mods, Cam & how well the head flows you'll need atleast a 3.5 bar to a 4.5 bar FPR. The 3.5 bar is a stock Porsche 944S Unit & can be found @ http://www.germanautoparts.com/ for $41.
The part #s for the 3.5 bar FPR is:
Bosch part# 0 280 160 263
Porsche part # 944 110 198 03
I'd suggest a 4bar FPR or better yet an adjustable FPR.
Find out more about them in my 4bar/ Adjustable FPR Thread
To go larger you can crush a stock one yourself using DIY instructions @ http://www.snstuning.com/DIY/FPR/fpr.htm
Ideally you'd want an adjustable FPR & a air/fuel ratio meter to tune it with but again not required.
This is the Adjustable/Rising Rate FPR I'm using:
It's a Malpassi FPR from Bavarian Autosport for BMWs.
It's an excellent unit but fits very tight & is not recomended for use with a G60 Valve Cover or other boxed valve covers.
Depending on how far you go, you'll need bigger injectors.
I'm using these: 24 lb Accels [IMG]http://**********************/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG] I noticed a nice improvement in throttle response with these. Alot of the 16 valve Digi2 guys are using stock 24-26 lb G60 Injectors.
This is the Air/ Fuel Ratio Meter I use, it's a Cyberdyne A/F Gauge. It's $36.95 @ Summit Racing, it works well & is accurate.
5. A better chip is suggested but not required.
AMS is by far the best chip currently available.
Increases injector pulse width(more fuel), has agressive timing maps, & raises the rev limit to 7,000 rpm. (with the right mods, you'll make power that high with this AFM)
A cheap alternative is the SNS Cam Chip, it only increases fuel but you'll still have the stock 6,200 rpm rev limit & it does nothing for timing. It's only $39 & better than nothing.
This is what mine looks like.
This is what no ISV/IAC motor & no PCV etc looks like.
If you're wondering where the PCV pipe goes, It goes to a Reeses Peanut Butter Can w/a K&N style breather filter mounted on the lid. This home made breather is concealed behind the front bumper yet is easily accessible to empty as needed.
If you really wanted to, I'm sure you can retain your ISV & or PCV. The ISV Port on mine is blocked off but you can go that route if you wish to retain the ISV function.
FWIW mine idles like a watch @ 1,000 rpm I have no issues with it. It does idle low when it's cold about 850-900 ish but once wamed up it idles flawlessly.
Adjusting the Idle is still the same, adjusting using the Idle Screw on the Throttle Body.
16 Valve Digifant II users:
This mod is a no brainer, you're obligated to do this if you want to make good power with your 16V Digi2. Many of us 8 Valve people have very low HP peaks around 5,000 rpm. Not because of the 8 Valve Design but because of the small AFM. With that in mind you gotta think this is seriously giving your 16 Valve asthma attacks beyond 5,000rpm. With a 16Valve head you'll be easily making HP deep into 7,000+ RPM Range.
BMW AFM vs VW AFM Size comparison:
The Door measurements:
VW AFM 2" H x 2 1/16"th W /50mm H x 52mm W
BMW AFM 2 9/16"th H x 2" W /65mm H x 50mm W
See Door Measurement for VW AFM
BMW AFM 3" or 75mm in Diameter
VW AFM 2 9/16"th or 65mm in Diameter
BMW AFM 3" or 75mm in Diameter
This is the Inlet Ring that comes with the BMW AFM, so you don't have to deal with using round hose on a square hole.
Modified by Digiracer at 9:36 PM 4-15-2005
Just another thing... MK3 swaybars are an upgrade, and will fit.
just a cheap alternative to some aftermarket sawybars, for the daily driver, weekend canyon carver.
This Post is to update all Digi II owners on what chips are still availible for our injection systems. Alot of speculation is flying around as to what is actually still out there. I recently made some phone calls, and talked to some reps about what each company can do for us. Here is a difinitive list as of the date on this post...
Techtonics Tuning carries a DIGI II chip. Power increase is quoted at 4 to 5 hp, however TT claims there chip will work in only 1/3 of the ECU's, Bosch being the brand of choice. The price of the chip... $110 plus shipping. The chip also comes with a Knock Sensor spacer, available by itself from TT.
For those of you who can read German... here you go. This link is to a german tuning site, that claims to carry the DIGI II chip as well. The gains look pretty substantial from the numbers I can read, however, it is unknown at this time if the chip will actually work in our cars or not. Here is the link: http://www.powertec.at/datenbank/vw.html
VW_Pilot apparently still sells the CSW chip. This chip works well for the price, however doesn't fix alot of the problems, but for the money, drivability is increased. Here is the link to his post: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=284195
SNS Tuning does infact carry 2 chips for the Digi II injection. One is designed for a cam, and the other without. Not much is known what the chip does as a whole, however, each chip only runs you $39!!!! It may be a cheaper alternative to some of the other chips on the market. Here is the link to their site: http://www.snstuning.com/
Last but not least, AMS. Anyone you have talked to that owns this chip, will tell you. It IS the difinitive chip for DIGI II. This chip not only adds more fuel, but aggressive ignition maps as well. It completely ignores the coolant temp sensor once warmed up, and drivability and power are better than ever. Your Rev limiter is raised to 7000 as well. AMS however doesn't list this chip on their site, but it is STILL AVAILIBLE!!!!! Call AMS directly at (310)-763-8000. Talk to the rep and make sure you have your ECU type and number handy. This chip will set you back... $200 to $250.
There you have it. If you have anymore information on Digi II chips, please feel free to shoot me an IM, and I will edit my post.
Quote, originally posted by rocco8v » Just another thing... MK3 swaybars are an upgrade, and will fit.
just a cheap alternative to some aftermarket sawybars, for the daily driver, weekend canyon carver.
To save topics overflooding swaybar upgrades are better then stressbars as in more noticeable differnce not saying stressbars are crap so dont buy them just upgrade swaysbars before stressbar swaybar info as rocco8v listed^^
stressbars=flexiabilty and stabilty
Modified by V_dubber03 at 1:17 AM 8-14-2004
does anyone have a diagram of the sensors?
What about some CIS tips???
What happened with the oil sump pipe?
I've pretty done all 2.0 ABA 8v engine and 1.8 head mods incl. the AMS chip. What kind of improvement can I expect with the BMW AMF and your other recommendations? I'm thinking about not upgrading fuel injectors. Will I still see an improvement?
think bout using a wideband first.
more fuel pressure is all you need to get a nice 13:1 a/f to redline. FPR's are cheap and easy to squash.
widebands are common all over the town nowadays. borrow one.
btw, you guys still haven't tried underclocking the ECU by 10% of the crystal on the motherboard?